Thursday, October 10, 2019

A judge ruled in 2018 that 'involvement of the children in filming is not in their best interests'

Jon says Kate and TLC violated Judge Rowley's order by allowing the children to be filmed for the College Bound episode last week. Documents from the Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry from June 2018 show they denied TLC's requested permits as a direct result of Judge Rowley's order. The children's guardian at litem also did not support filming and worried Kate may have squandered the children's money.

More of the judge's wise comments:

"Based on the limited information available - and in large part because of Mother's and her counsel's repeated failure to provide further information to Father, the guardian ad litem, and the Court - the Court concluded that involvement of the children in filming is not in their best interests....Though several of the children indicate they enjoy filming, one does not and is experiencing physiological symptoms apparently brought on by the general stress of the custodial disputes, and another is in a facility undergoing treatment for mental and emotional issues tied in part to the filming and fame. It is reasonable to be concerned that one or more of the children who currently claim to enjoy filming may at some point suffer negative consequences they cannot foresee now as young teenagers. 
"As the guardian points out, even those children who do not participate in the filming may be negatively affected by the show continuing without them. Indeed, the statements of several of the children to the effect that they need filming to survive, that it is their normal way of life, and that it feels weird not to film, although apparently intended to make filming seem innocuous or positive, raise concerns in the Court's mind as to whether continued filming is healthy for these children. Having a staged second birthday is hardly the normal activity that would occur absent filming....Taken altogether, the Court was faced with limited information, failures by Mother and her counsel to provide more information, real concerns about the mental and emotional effects of filming, and no way to determine whether those concerns are offset by the financial 'benefits of filming. The Court, therefore, concluded filming was not in the children's best interests.

Tuesday, October 1, 2019

Discussion Thread: Kate Plus Eight "College Bound" 10/1/2019



Wednesday, September 25, 2019

Kate Plus 8 'College Bound' sneak peek

The Kate Plus 8 (um, six? Collin and Hannah are nowhere to be found in the episode) special 'College Bound' is set to air October 1 on TLC.

Wednesday, September 18, 2019

Collin's desperate pleas for help in 2017

DailyMail has published a photo of a letter Collin wrote to Jon begging Jon to rescue him from Fairmount, where he was institutionalized

John also told the publication Hannah was mentally tortured by Kate, child protective services received over 50 reports of abuse in Kate's home they investigated, and that all of the children have poor social skills he attributes to the isolation of their childhoods. Collin and Hannah now live full time with Jon.  Read more here.






Sunday, September 1, 2019

Happy 10 years to Realitytvkids.com

This month marks ten years since the first full month this blog was in business. I started the blog to be a one-stop resource to chronicle the barrage of news coming out at the time about the Gosselin divorce, and to discuss the implications of that very public split on the children as well as the filming during that time. It grew into a daily gathering of ladies and even a few gentlemen who became a community, a household even, as we gathered around what came to be known as "the porch."

There have been some wild rides over that ten years. From Aunt Jodi testifying about child labor laws in the Pennsylvania House, to my hilarious, and live-on-the-blog, encounter with Kate at her book signing in Santa Monica, where I damn near got assaulted by Steve the boobyguard....to enough lawsuits to build a small town with. We watched a little boy banished to the lowest of lows, and watched Jon lose, then gain back two of his children, including that lost little boy. There have been births, both human and furry, marriages, and at times, deaths. There have been people who suddenly departed we still worry about. There have been people who have been here since the beginning, and those that came later we welcomed.

Special thanks to the blog girls and pool boys. You know who you are, and how much time this blog takes up and the stress it sometimes causes. Your dedication has made it possible for me to have much more time for my own life, career and family, allowing me to feel fulfilled and flourishing both on the interwebs and in real life.

Now that the children are nearing adulthood and the opportunities to exploit them appear to be dwindling at last, you may be wondering where that leaves this blog. Well, we'll stay up and running as long as you want to hang out here. And if there ever comes a time that we feel it's best to lock up the screen doors and move on from our little porch, know how special this place has been to me over the past ten years, how grateful I am that you wanted to hang out here whether it was for a short time or a long time, and how appreciative I am of the incredible discussion, both intellectually stimulating and side-splitting, that has gone on here over the years.

1,123 posts. roughly 700,000 comments (a big guess based on average comments on each post--too many to count!), and hundreds of people who stopped by here over the years. Thank you to all!

Monday, August 26, 2019

Back to school for Collin and Hannah

Jon has posted some sweet back to school photos of Collin and Hannah to his Instagram. A photo of the siblings together, who are entering 9th grade, followed by each of them with Jon. Dig the jeans, Collin!


Monday, July 15, 2019

Discussion Thread: Kate Plus Date "Finale: The Champions" 7/15/2019 AND Recap: Kate Plus Date "Finale: The Champions": 'Birdbox' please kill this show

Last time on Kate Plus 8, the twins were pretty head over heels for Joey Bats, which, ew! Coming up, Rachel's baaaack, and uh-oh, she and Adam are going to compare notes. Rachel's got that look on her face all like, notes? We were supposed to be taking notes? Let me guess, Rachel was that chick in law school who was always like, hey, can I see your notes? I had to miss class today due to *insert lame reason*, can I copy your notes? Can I check my notes against yours? How about not, law school chick? How about you take your notes and I'll take my notes and I'll see you at the final exam?

I think I've made it clear which of these two matchmakers are any good, didn't half-ass it and instead did their job. They both want to be on T.V., but Adam is the only one here actually trying to earn his spot on the tube. Naturally I'm disappointed that Rachel, a former lawyer, was so terrible. Oh, well.

Kate is soooo changed since she started the process, blah blah. The editors make a really hard cut to her rambling about meeting some really nice guys, which tells me she carried on for quite awhile about how changed she is and it was boring and pointless to anything so it got cut. She's nothing if not predictable, and her "after such-and-such experience I'm a whole new Kate" thing is a dumb talking point she's been trying to sell for years now, and poorly.

Adam is a pretty cool guy, happily inviting Rachel to sit down with him and talk about the process. He lays out what we already know, that Rachel started the process and then he took over.

"Bless you," Rachel quips. Baw! I just snorted my coke.

Rachel says Kate was difficult because she would really resist attempts to help her, but Rachel excuses this immature and unacceptable behavior as "so many times she's gotten hurt." Rachel, STFU!!!

So wait a second, Kate has spent all six of these episodes pretty much insisting that Jon and maybe a college boyfriend are her only two relationships in her lifetime. She practically denies even knowing Jeff Prescott. So we've got a grand total of two relationships that in actuality failed because of her, the last one of which was over a whopping ten years ago, and that's scarred her permanently from ever finding love again? This is really not the reason Kate resists relationships at all, but Rachel is either too dense or too polite to dive any deeper than this cliche.

Adam, who has a much better grasp of the situation here, says he has been trying to understand what is the problem here. Although unfortunately Adam disappoints me in not really getting to the real problem (she's mentally ill, a narcissist, Adam!) I think he's right in trying to get Kate to just put aside this "thing," which I think Adam has been persuaded relates to some divorce from ages ago (it's not), and just relax and flirt on dates. That's as good advice as any I guess.

Inexplicably, Mady says it actually doesn't matter if they like Kate's new man or not because she'll only be seeing him on Thanksgiving and Christmas anyway. Heh. That's what I've been saying all along here. What is the point of the twins all up in her business about who she dates when they're about to go off to college and see Kate as little as possible.

It's so terribly awkward to watch Rachel have to sit down with Kate and Adam and get filled in on how things went with Adam. Kate suddenly tries to claim she actually wanted two matchmakers all along because she wanted a male and female perspective. Eh, no, that's not how that went down, how it went down was Rachel was fired. She re-writes history when she doesn't even need to, it's fascinating. I mean we all saw Rachel get her ass fired two episodes ago so what is she trying to do here?

Mady and Cara after having been through what they've been through know how important this decision is, Kate explains. BITCH! Also, it's a second date for God sakes. You're not deciding who to spend the rest of your life with. It's who you will spend the next three hours with. Good grief, the dramatics. Even Adam and Rachel say they need to take the pressure off Kate to find a forever man and just have her focus on having a good date. They're absolutely right, Kate is acting like a 21 year old Mormon who feels like a spinster and must get married now -clap RIGHT NOW -clap clap-. She can't even get through one date without things falling apart, I have no idea why she's talking about forever right now as if she is in any way capable of getting someone to marry her in the mental state she's in right now.

There's so much to say about all of Kate's dumb comments throughout these episodes there's just not much room to recap much else but I should mention the amateur low budget production here. They do a cutsey montage of "NYC" with sped up shots of the subway and people walking. I guess this is to establish we are in NYC. It's so college level and looks like they pulled shots from somebody else's shoot for some other show at TLC and spliced them into theirs.

We have one of those incredibly long conversations about what everyone acts like is a huge coincidence that Mady and Cara picked the same top two guys as Kate. The twins only met three guys, so it's not a big shock that they might pick the same two Kate wants. There's only three to pick from in the first place! And I like the long drawn out reveal Kate does of her top two to Adam and Rachel, leading off with she picked one top from each of them. Since Joey Bats was the only guy of Adam's the twins' met, Adam surely must know immediately she picked Joey. But Kate is acting like this is a big reveal when Adam already knows by process of elimination. It would be more interesting to watch this woman narrow down her order at Starbucks. Let's see, flat white or iced coffee? Or maybe I'll get a croissant!



So her top two are, no big surprise, Tax Shelter Jeff and Joey Bats. As far as I'm concerned, Tax Shelter Jeff is the only guy in this entire pool worth going out with again. While I liked Refined Jeff, he was a little bit too cagey for my tastes, asked certain questions that in my experience are red flags, and I was getting a strong vibe this was a phone-it-in favor to a friend and not a sincere attempt to get to know someone. Tax shelter Jeff was sincerely giving this a real go with Kate, cameras and all. As for Joey Bats, he acts all of 22 years old and his lifestyle, running a restaurant and spending the rest of his time in bars, is in no way compatible with Kate's, spending 18 hours a day in front of the T.V. in rural Pennsylvania with her wine. Great guy, but not right for Kate. It's a waste of time to go out with him again.

Mercifully for us all, Adam and Rachel say they're just going to watch these dates and not intervene. Thank God, because if I have to again watch Rachel prematurely shut down a date in a crowded restaurant with lies about the place closing down for the night time to go, I'm going to lose it. They are taking off the training wheels, they say. Yeah I've heard that one before, from my dad, and I ended up with a bloody nose and two skinned knees.

Kate actually takes a moment to look them both in the eyes and say thank you "again." Again? I didn't hear a thank you the first time. I heard a whole bunch of entitlement and no gratitude at all. She practically left Rachel standing on a busy street corner by herself in NYC when she fired her ass. But good for her pausing to say thank you at last. People in general do not get enough thank you's for the hard work they do and a whole lot of people have worked hard on Kate's behalf over the years and never gotten one.

We launch right into her second date with Joey, who apparently decided not to shower or shave this morning. He's not one of those guys that looks rugged and handsome with a five-clock shadow. Rather he looks like a grad student who just pulled an all nighter.

Proving he's more hipster than I originally bargained for, Joey leads Kate through some really sketch basements and fire escapes to a "speakeasy". I would feel embarrassed to be over 40 and at a speakeasy. Actually over 30. I'm just being honest. I don't understand the point of speakeasies in the first place. They were very trendy in L.A. about five years back, and to me it was just another place with a bunch of people lined up who aren't being let in. That is a waste of time and humiliating. Plus hiding your business when you don't really have to almost feels disrespectful to history. During prohibition completely appropriate bars and restaurants had to go underground and blood was shed in various ways over something as stupid as being able to sell and consume a simple drink. I don't know, it's not funny to me, it was a dark time in our history, with some estimates attributing 10,000 deaths to that one little decision about alcohol. And if ever someone wants to know why one's heart and good intentions never should be the basis of political decisions rather than facts, figures, sociology, psychology, logic and reason, prohibition was it. It's not okay 10,000 people were killed just because your intentions were good, that your heart was in the right place, that you were trying to do "what's right" without thinking about the unintended consequences of what just felt so "right." People should read more history when they spout off what they think is so morally right these days and consider factoring in facts, figures, sociology, psychology, logic and reason because unintended consequences are a thing.

Joey is one of those people who really wants to be and gets a lot of joy from immersing himself in something eclectic like this with their low ceilings and bad chandeliers and dowdy furniture and wine in coffee cups, and then finds himself shocked and confused when other people are like, the hell? Kate can't get past drinking wine out of coffee cups or the smell. Ew, it does look like it smells. Rachel says the smell was like they just cleaned up a murder scene. Ugh, I've smelled exactly that in various places before and it's terribly unappetizing. Like if you have to bleach your establishment from top to bottom before bringing out some jello, what exactly are you trying to wash away?

Joey mentions seeing quite some rowdy bar fights in this place, and note to men, women don't care about all the bar fights you've seen. I hate sharing the same views as Kate, but she said when Joey mentioned those bar fights she paused. Yeah, I'm pausing too. I'm not being judgmental about the bar thing because whatever, as long as you're not an alcoholic I don't care if you want to hang out at the bar all night every night. In Ireland bars are like community centers and people do go every night and they drink and they eat and mostly they socialize and even bring their kids; many American bars are like this too. And it's fine. I just don't see a person like Joey Bats compatible with someone who is not as into the bar scene or not at all into it. When I was doing the dating thing I made a point to be upfront about how little desire I had to spend a moment of time in bars, even cool speakeasies, as I had quickly learned it's really important to some people and that it's really best to find somebody on the same page about the bar thing. This is a big reason Kate should not waste a moment more of Joey's time because unless Joey is feeling like he's at the end of feeling like he wants to be in a bar all the time, they simply aren't compatible. This one reason is enough, but of course there are other reasons she's not right for Joey/Joey's not right for her that are obvious, like he's fun and has a personality and she's a waste of space.

Joey admits he's pretty not-OCD, go with the flow wing it kind of guy and uh-oh, I fear Kate will think this nice, chill guy to be too much like another nice, chill guy she used to be married to and inexplicably discarded. And then Kate makes a comment that made the rounds on this blog as one of the most outrageous out of her mouth, in that she dealt with a man having no plans in life before and she's done with that. Gaaa, she's such an asshole! Hey, Kate, just because someone disagrees with your plan to exploit your children on T.V. forever and ever doesn't mean they have "no plan." Not the same thing. And what on earth gives her the idea that Joey Bats might not have a plan in life just because he's laid back? For f sake, you don't develop your own successful restaurant from scratch that has locations in two different states without a life plan. The truth is, incompatible as they are, that doesn't mean Joey isn't a great guy for somebody, a real catch who is successful, kind, funny and personable, and she should recognize Joey as a great guy for somebody and stop being so damn judgmental of him just because he's not right for her.

This is one of the rare times I've ever heard Kate talk specifically about the children in a positive way. She mentions that Cara and Leah like to cook, and that Leah is really, really good and wants her own bakery. See, this is the shit she should put on instagram and tell her fans about. It's decently interesting and really not a violation of anyone's privacy. It shows the children are individuals, with interests, and interesting in their own right. She would find herself with far more likes, if that's what she's after. She wouldn't even have to pay for them.

Kate mentions baking her fuckety-billion sweet rolls as if Joey Bats cares at all about any of this and says something about she thought of Joey Bats. Adam and Rachel are deliriously happy over this revelation, like practically clapping like seals. Like, they're excited that Kate thought of another person? Truly, that is quite a milestone, folks, they're not wrong. Heh, Adam even says I've asked her if she's thought of any of her dates afterward and she's like ewww, nope! Lol.

And while we're on the subject of Kate being an asshole, would it kill her after two entire dates to ask Joey a little bit about himself and his restaurant? Like, what made you want to open a restaurant? How did you do it? What was the most difficult part? Tell me more about Portuguese cuisine and how proud you are to bring more of it to the U.S. What do you see for its future? I don't care if you don't want to sleep with the guy, but show him a little bit of appreciation for accomplishing something meaningful with his life. He actually deserves it.

Postmortem date, Rachel is thrilled that Kate had to sit close to Joey in the speakeasy and were "almost" touching. Sounds silly to be excited about almost touching, like Almanzo Wilder practically getting a hard on over driving Laura Ingalls to her teaching job every morning and almost touching. But this is Kate, and almost touching is more progress than recoiling in horror like she usually does.



Wait, this date is not over yet? It feels so long, and so boring, and so very preordained. Like we all know they're not gonna end up together so can we not?

Now they're going to sculpt blindfolded, which actually makes sense to me as you can really focus, but of course Kate has to make all her typical disgusted and appalled faces.

Adam and Rachel get all seal clap excited again when Joey Bats puts his arm around the back of Kate's chair. He hasn't even touched her for heaven sake, but I guess someone even coming into Kate's galaxy without getting a scoff is progress. It's like Birdbox, Joey says. Joey, it's not Birdbox because unfortunately when Kate cheats and peeks there are no monsters to make this show kill itself. Don't we wish this were Birdbox!


Somebody from production pours Joey Bats and Schmoopy here huge glasses of wine. I don't know why the editors felt it was so important we see that. They're zooming in on the wine glasses even. Get 'em good and drunk, it's better TV. Shortly thereafter Joey flat out says he kept requesting more and more wine to get Kate to loosen up. Well, that's one way to do it, but kind of an ick way.

I guess more wine makes Kate want to shove clay into Joey's face but that's about all it does.

Does anyone care what the twins think about the two of them touching? Didn't think so. Mady doesn't like touching other people or being touched by other people. Well, that might happen when your mother never holds and hugs you growing up.

They finally reveal the sculptures, and Kate's looks like the elephant man and Joey's looks like the Night King and Prince Charles got together. This is the only thing about the whole date that is mildly amusing to me.

The date finally ends and Joey sounds genuinely disappointed he couldn't really get intimate with Kate when they said goodbye, and Adam gives good advice that you shouldn't wait until the end of the date to suddenly make a move. It creates too much pressure and build up. And gets awkward, might I add. So this was part Joey's fault for really timing this all wrong and the rest is Kate's fault for being a stone cold block of ice toward a really nice guy who would just like to kiss her on the lips for all his trouble. Instead he has to settle for kissing both her cheeks like he's a Real Housewife. You know that stupid kissing they're always doing as if we live in Paris, when all they really want to do is slug the bitch in front of them for whatever latest interview they gave trashing them. Any advice or thoughts of any relevance from Rachel? Nope, didn't think so.

Kate, who is so clearly on the spectrum I would stake my life on it at this point, didn't notice Joey was going in for a kiss and didn't feel a single tad emotion resembling romantic feelings at all. Kate says she's "probably not opposed" to seeing Joey again. Probably not opposed?? Gentleman, and ladies, too, if anybody ever acts like they are probably not opposed to seeing you again, you need to put your foot down and YOU not see them again. You don't deserve somebody "not opposed." You deserve much, much better. You deserve somebody interested, excited, thrilled to get to know you, can't wait to find out what happens next. Forget Kate, she's a piece of trash.

I've always said Tax Shelter Jeff was too good for Kate but guess what Joey Bats, you've also joined the upper echelon here of TOO GOOD FOR KATE! Now move yourself along from this poor choice you made to get involved with a reality show and get somebody worthy of yourself, your talents, your kindness, and the way you've done something so meaningful with your life.

We launch immediately into Tax Shelter Jeff's date, in which he's invited Kate over to his nice condo for dinner in the most adorable little town in North Carolina called Davison. Geez, even this town is too good for Kate. Their public library looks straight out of The Waltons. It's so cute. Too bad Kate don't read. I always think dinner at his or her place for a second date is a great choice. It's best to figure out if they have a giant boil on their nose in a public setting, but it's also good to see their living quarters as early in the relationship as possible, because a lot of red flags can be discovered by how somebody lives at home. It's also a chance to have a more private conversation without waiters, or some obnoxious ex-lawyer like Rachel, interrupting you.

Well I've speculated Jeff could be just a gay actor because he's so perfect. Even his house is so freaking homey and inviting, with flowers on the windowsill and some historical document framed on the wall. But turns out he's not gay after all, as we here on the blog discovered via Facebook he now is very happy with a wonderful girlfriend who is 45 and has a set of twins. Suck it, Kate. I'm also pretty sure he's not an actor; I think this was a favor to a friend in production or a dare for charity or something.

Jeff immediately pulls out the wine, which is probably wise, and Kate's already mugging for the cameras with some stupid water into wine joke that makes no sense. She's literally swinging her whole body around to look at the cameras and make this "joke." It's incredible how obnoxious she is.

Jeff owns cookbooks? Be still my heart. Between that, his love of board games, and The Princess Bride being his favorite movie, that Facebook girlfriend of his is one lucky woman. Like straight out of a romance novel lucky. They're going to cook salmon, chickpea salad and roasted cauliflower, which as far as I'm concerned is the only way to cook cauliflower worth eating. Yum.

Proving how beyond-beyond socially awkward she is, Kate in the middle of them talking about wine and pouring wine suddenly blurts out, "You were so good with my girls!" Good Lord, Kate. Good Lord! I mean try to lead into something like that at least a little. It's like it was a line she knew she wanted to say, but didn't know how or when to bring it up so she just inserted it wherever. She's so painful to watch, and I almost....almost....feel bad for her.

Blech, Mady peddles that old party line about how the new changed Kate is much more relaxed and would be just fine with a guy like Jeff taking over her domain in the kitchen. What changed Mady? Explain. Otherwise I don't believe it and I think you're brainwashed and just regurgitating whatever Kate has told you, and at your age, it's sad to be such a mouthpiece for your own mother.

I have a hunch you're a good cook, Jeff says. Jeff, your hunch is wrong.



I have no idea what Kate means when she says Jeff's home was better than she expected but you can tell he's a bachelor. How so? He looks like he has every kind of pan and kitchen utensil, nice cutting boards, the house looks lived in and homey, there's nice artwork on the walls and it's clean and nicely decorated. And he cooks with kale. I couldn't tell you whether a bachelor lives here or a yogi or a family of four. I don't get this comment at all and I find it to be rather snide. 

Jeff is touchy feely and says pretty matter of fact that Kate really didn't return it. I'm glad he doesn't seem disappointed about this because he's too good for Kate to be upset.

Kate completely overreacts to their mutual love of cilantro. She's so awkward! Goodness, you'd think they just discovered they both have a mutual passion for 19th century Russian literature. I mean it's not that uncommon to really love cilantro. You like apples too? And you like to cook dinner and eat it? Oh my God me too! Oy.

Jeff mentions her chopping skills needs some work. Heh. I take pleasure in someone who wrote a cookbook being insulted by someone who clearly is so much better in the kitchen than she is, yet never wrote a cookbook or has a need to impress anybody with their cooking.

Are Rachel and Adam in Jeff's closet? So weird. Rachel remarks that Kate is into him. I don't know how she figures that but sure.

Kate throws salt in Jeff's face, and I guess the extent of her ability to flirt involves putting stuff in guy's faces, whether it's salt or clay.

While dinner is cooking, Jeff takes her down to his wine cellar. So cool! It's gorgeous, with lovely reclaimed wood. He built it himself. Of course he did. 

Oh, I'm dying here, I love Jeff so much. He schools Kate like a boss about how little she knows about wine, calling her alleged favorite wine Malbec from Argentina "boring." Bawww! I don't know anything about wine but I'll take Jeff's word for it that's a boring wine that people who don't know anything about wine like, and guess what else is boring, Jeff? KATE! It makes me so happy you're with somebody else now because you deserve some spice in your very nice life. Jeff prefers French red wine from Bordeaux and Clos de la Roche. I think that's what he's saying, and this is without the help of the closed captioned which apparently the Roku TLCgo app doesn't have. My French is terrible but I trust him that whatever that is, that's good wine.

"When you're single and don't have kids you can just build a wine cellar," Kate remarks on the couch. The hell? Why is she being such a grade A jerk? As if a wine cellar or something similar is something only people with nothing on their plates have time to putter around with aimlessly. I mean, Jeff has been running his own company and traveling the world, it's not like he has nothing going on, nor are people without kids by default not busy or don't understand what it means to be busy. Hey, Kate, lots of people with kids, or without kids, are very busy yet still carve out time to have full and interesting lives. Just because you haven't done so yourself doesn't mean you have to make nasty comments about other people who are accomplishing things of meaning with their limited time on this earth, kids or not. For the first time it occurs to me she is jealous and resentful of anyone who has a full and interesting life, Jeff and Jon included. It doesn't matter if you have kids or don't have kids, anyone who has managed to carve out a real life for themselves, she resents. I don't know why Kate has been unable to hone in on hobbies and interests of her own. I don't know why she has nothing going on. Perhaps she is simply incapable of finding and developing interests. I get the impression the vast majority of things bore her for some reason, which is abnormal and could be a red flag there's some true depression going on here. For the few things that capture her attention, like cooking and wine, the true work involved with fleshing out that interest into anything substantial, as Jeff has, is just too overwhelming and too much work for somebody so darn lazy. Thus, we're left with a 44-year-old woman with absolutely nothing going on but eight I mean six kids and some dogs. 

Jeff actually has very similar core interests to Kate in that he likes traveling, cooking, and wine. Except Jeff really made something of those interests and Kate did not. I'm getting a pretty keen sense that this very fact is dawning on Jeff on this date, and although he seemed quite interested in Kate on the first date, this second one is rapidly going downhill as he's realizing somebody like Kate just isn't for him. I'd feel sorry for him except we know he found a great girlfriend, so this is fine. It would only be depressing if he were still looking!

And another thing, she should have been not so lazy and developed her interests for her kids and stop blaming her kids for her sad boring life. It is good for children to see their parents' lives not completely revolving around the children. And oftentimes just by virtue of the fact that kids are so exposed to their parents' interests they develop a love for such things too as they get older. In my family that was camping and fishing. We all grew up with the adults going off on camping trips two or three times a summer up to the various beautiful lakes in Canada and when we got old enough we tagged along. It instilled in me a love of nature and the outdoors and camping, the pure unadulterated quiet of the wilderness, that has continued well into my own adulthood and that I fully intend to pass down to my own family, and dog

Rachel announces uselessly that there is some great chemistry on this date. Rachel just wants her own show, which we knew, but she proved it on her instagram account with this exchange: 

sandyfen
You have the best smile , personality ever, you need your own show❤️👏👏😬

racheldealto
@sandyfen aw thank you! From your lips to @tlc’s ears 😂


Rachel seems like the type to mix bleach and vinegar thinking she's just made the greatest super cleaning solution for her counters, pinterest worthy. 


They at last sit down to dinner and it looks delicious. They both like it. Mady and Cara announce that Kate has been making the chickpea and cauliflower thing repeatedly at home. They rudely say they don't like it and got so sick of it. Why are they being so rude?

Tell me more about your growing up years, Jeff says. Uh-oh, here we go. Kate essentially avoids the question with a real red flag of an answer "I don't know how to describe it." If anybody says to you they don't know how to describe their childhood, run.

Jeff naturally says he had a good childhood, had great parents, but did want to get out of his small town. Jeff, who continues to have a lot of things in common with Kate, is too good for Kate. I suspect that's what it was with Kate too. It's not that her parents or childhood were necessarily bad, she was just one of those yearning to see what else was out there beyond the little town. I went through that too, but most people are able to recognize the difference between having a great family but just wanting out to see what else is out there, versus wrongly equating a very natural and common desire to want out with something defective or not good enough about her childhood. I suspect Kate is the later, and it's really disrespectful to her family who, with the exception of maybe her father, did nothing wrong in the raising of her. Based on her own words I believe she felt she deserved more trips and more money to spend in her childhood, her family did nothing wrong in not being able to afford such luxuries, and instead of understanding that and accepting it, she resents it to this day. 

Why are you still single, Kate asks. Is it just me but I think this question is flipping rude. Why is he still single? Why are you still single, Kate? Geez! What are you supposed to say to that, I'm a great catch except for the fact that I pick my toenails in front of the T.V. every night and no woman can stand that? And I feel like he already adequately explained why he's single, because the nature of his job mostly abroad and all the traveling he did made relationships difficult (and likely unfair to the woman) but now that he has decided to recently relocate to North Carolina to be near his nephews, he is able to have a stable relationship now. That is a perfectly reasonable reason why a great guy like this is single, though he won't be for long. 

Jeff politely explains, not that this is anyone's business on a second date, that he didn't want to get married in his 20's, and in his 30's he was in a three-year relationship that ended in heartbreak and so hasn't met the right one since then. That really was none of your business, Kate, but whatever.

Kate just checked her phone. Ugh. Why is your phone even out?

Jeff corrals her to the couch, sitting close to her with his arm around her. He's about to kiss her, and I feel like someone is asking me to do a polar bear swim and I'm cringing and hugging myself. I am panicking as much as Kate. Jeff moves her hair from her eyes and she acts like she just got electrocuted. This is a bit sad to watch. This is the behavior of a rape victim for goodness sake. Get some therapy, Kate, because you're a mess. 

Kate abruptly ends the date and bolts toward the door, and Jeff asks to see her again and she says sure yes. We take forever to build up to it and then Jeff suddenly grabs her face and kisses her. Ew, ew, ew.  It looks like a vacuum cleaner grabbing up Kate Gosselin. I'm horrified. At least Kate doesn't pull away and even puts her doughy hands around him.

And now folks we're to the end of this hot mess of a show and guess what, it just ends! Kate says she has stayed in contact with one of the two finalist guys, but she doesn't feel we really need to know right now. Oh, come on! I have never in the history of T.V. seen someone trolling so shamelessly for a second season. Also, Kate, you tool, you don't need to tease and play games with viewers about who or if you ended up with somebody to get a second season. It's so unnecessary, obnoxious, and frankly disrespectful to the handful of viewers who stuck this one out. "So what else is out there?" Kate remarks. Not much, Schmoopy. Now drink your lame wine and peek out from your blindfold so this show can just die Birdbox style and the whole world would be better off.

Monday, July 8, 2019

Discussion Thread: Kate Plus Date "Under Pressure" 7/8/2019 AND Recap: Kate Plus Date "Under Pressure": "Head-tilt Mady makes sure no milk drinker will pass for her step-father"

Last time on Kate Plus Date, Kate's new matchmaker Adam is awesome, correctly identifying Kate's tiny little bitter heart as near beyond hope. So much better than doofus Rachel who thought she could somehow yoga-swing Kate into normalcy. And Joey Batista was using his date to audition his pilot idea, Joey and Mama Batting a Thousand. Coming up, Kate's new date looks just like an extra in that excellent prison movie classic Midnight Express. Her second date of the night is too good for her. He does contract work in the Middle East but that's about all he can say. Likely he just oversees installing power grids or something but it's still dangerous and important work and hats off to him.

This is going to be another episode where everybody yammers on forever just making one point. Did the episodes come up super short in the editing bay and they had to go back in and keep adding in more drivel until they hit 43 minutes? Kate is starting to hone in on who will be her second dates. It takes her forever to say this. Forever!

Even though there are plenty of signs this was filmed all out of order as most series are, even much of reality shows, Kate is reflecting back on how much she learned over the progression of these dates and claims now she is having fun. If fun looks like a colonoscopy, sure she is having fun.

Kate also seems to think she is just so much better equipped at her age to know what she wants in a man as opposed to when she was in her 20s. This is a subtle knock at Jon, as she only ended up with a husband as horrid as Jon because she was just too young to know any better. I don't know what she is talking about, because I have barely heard her ask these dates anything of any relevance or importance that a mature woman of her age should want to know. She still mostly cares about the superficial. Whether you are tall, if she doesn't have to diaper your kids, making sure you're not Jon or reminds her of Jon. As I've said many times in these recaps, nobody seems to be curious are you a good man, would you be good for and with my children? Twenty-year-old kids are more capable of thinking deeply about these important questions and making a wise decision in a mate.

Adam is right that Kate struggles to talk about herself on dates. I know that sounds like an odd problem for a narcissist to have, but it's true for Kate. Really a better way to say it is Kate can't make good conversation.  I mean, she can talk about herself, she wouldn't shut up about the marathon she did eight years ago when she was telling Joey. The question is is her yammering good conversation. It's not. The reason I think she can't make good conversation is, as I have said, she actually has nothing to talk about because she's wasted the better part of the past decade doing nothing. She also doesn't much care to get to know the other person and can't fake it in a conversation as normal people do every day. Adam's doing a decent job of trying to crack this nutjob, so good for him, but he just doesn't know nearly enough about her to realize this as he hasn't been following her rise and fall over the past ten years as we here at this blog have and Kate sure isn't going to tell him anything honest.

Kate is still claiming having no time is why dating is a struggle for her, finally at long last answering the question what exactly she does all day, and here it is in its entirety: cooking three meals a day, homework, cleaning, and doing laundry. If she has time she showers. Where to begin with this drivel! By this time you would think she has the cooking thing down to military procession and should be able to whip up any one meal for eight kids actually six in 20 minutes flat with maybe 30 minutes of oven time where you can do other things. It's her choice to make things harder on herself and everybody else by "cooking" breakfast and lunches. At their ages, kids are perfectly capable of and should grab breakfast themselves. It'll probably be cold which is fine, the important thing is the balance of protein and carbs, not the heat. Hotcakes and steaming bacon served up every morning to kids just trying to get themselves to school doesn't make you a better mother than the one who on weekdays only has ingredients for protein shakes on hand or cereal and fruit and kids can help themselves. And for God sakes they can pack their lunches themselves or just buy a hot lunch at school! I can't even imagine what it would have been like to have my mom still packing up my lunchbox at that age. I would have felt like such a baby. All Kate has to do is keep the fridge and pantry well stocked with healthy lunch items or money on their hot lunch accounts and the rest these teenagers can do themselves.

I can believe she probably has to run a few loads of laundry a day, tops, but that's also a set it and forget it thing where once you have it all going, it's not like you need to sit there and watch the water boil. You can go do something else. Kids at this age also should be tasked with keeping their own clothes sorted and at least bringing them down to the laundry room themselves if not even running their own loads and they certainly could do their own folding and putting away, which cuts the work for Kate in half.

As for homework, these kids are 15 and 17, well old enough to complete the vast majority of their homework without her help, and she's kidding herself dumb as she is if she thinks she can "help" with the kind of assignments they're getting at this stage in their schooling. Cara is going to be a math major, no doubt she took AP Calculus or something similar, trigonometry, geometry, advanced algebra courses. Kate is a woman who thinks a kiwi is a bird with no arms and that Pollyanna kid wore glasses, bullshit Kate helps with this stuff. And a school as nice as that should have plenty of tutoring available or at least teachers that are willing to stay late to help you. At that age, my parents stopped checking my homework or even much asking about it anyway. It wasn't because they didn't care or were being lazy. They were in their wise way preparing me to take responsibility for my own homework and tasks, budgeting my time, letting them know if I really shouldn't be going out because I had a book essay due soon, deciding for myself what classes I would take and how much I wanted to push myself (they didn't caution me when I signed on to three AP classes in one year) suffering the consequences on my own at school when an assignment wasn't complete or up to my best work or I had over-scheduled myself. I think we had a better relationship for it because I never felt like my parents were nags about school or didn't trust me to take care of my business, and I did learn how to handle my business such that the transition to freshman year of college was pretty simple for me while I watched some of my other more coddled classmates struggle. I managed to be a straight A student in high school and high 3 point-something throughout college without my mother ever once saying, let me see your homework and help you with it. Point being, Kate doesn't have to sit there and oversee all the homework like an overbearing schoolmarm. It's not a good use of her time and isn't good for kids anyway especially ones who will soon be in college without mom to pick up their messes.

As for the cleaning, it's hard to believe she doesn't have a housekeeper and if she doesn't, well, she chose to buy a mansion, now she has to clean it. She's not doing a very good job of it anyway, it always looks dusty and cluttered to me. So I don't believe she's devoting hours each day to cleaning or it wouldn't look as sad as it does.

Of note, she curiously doesn't mention she might waste a whole lot of time each day just driving kids around. Bet she doesn't. Bet the kids drive themselves, take the bus, or find some other way to and from school.

Another thought I had, let's say she is on the spectrum as I think she is. Another signal of that is struggles with organizing, sequencing, and prioritizing. If all these simple tasks really are taking her all day instead of the few hours that they should, that could be because she is unable to organize her daily tasks in a manner that is efficient and productive. It must be so frustrating to those on the spectrum to watch others around them easily tackle a few hours of work and knock it out while they struggle to do the same all day long. People who work all day still manage to cook, check in on homework, do a little laundry and tidying up, in a quarter of the time she claims it takes her.

All in all I clock these tasks she has named should take up no more than five to six hours a day tops, and that's being generous to her. For someone who doesn't work, that leaves a good ten other hours left in the day to do something with her life. It irritates me Adam doesn't call her out on this, question why those few tasks she listed are taking her all damn day in the first place, question her on why she's filling so much of her time breathing down her children's necks, and ask for someone who is living so high on the hog why don't you just hire help, order out more, sign up for a meal service like Freshly, etc. She's going to push these kids away with all this nonsense and likely already has, not make them feel closer to her. I have very little sympathy for people who intentionally make their lives harder with their own choices, then spend the rest of their time bitching about how hard things are.

Mady says something extremely revealing on the couch, in that Kate bitches a lot about never getting time to herself, and so the kids will take a cue and say okay fine, and leave her alone. That's sweet, sounds like the kids make a grade A effort to make sure she has plenty of time for herself when she demands it, so Kate is lying when she says otherwise. Of course Kate has drilled into these kids how much of a hardship they are on her, making them feel guilty about it all when really their only focus right now should be academics, sports, college prep, and a healthy social life. Not on being their mother's emotional crutch. Is anyone at all surprised two have left her likely for this reason and many other similar issues? Who wants to feel like one big fat burden on their mentally ill and manipulative mother? More are going to leave, I'm calling it right now.

Mady and Cara meet some of Kate's top contenders for a second date because for no good reason other than to kill time, but they spend about three minutes explaining the reasons, which is three minutes down the editors don't need to worry about. They're up in the living room of some kind of penthouse suite I think, and I guess they're just going to be meeting Todd and Jeff, which is funny for a couple reasons, one is that Rachel, the one Kate hates and got fired, "found" both those guys and now they're in her top two. The other is, she only has a top two? Heh, but she's only supposed to go on two second dates in the first place, so how will the girls narrow two down to....two? Also, shouldn't this grilling take place after all the dates are finished? Kate has two dates left still! The girls have a ridiculously long conversation about whether Kate should stay and listen to all this. Of course Kate badly wants to stay and keep her mug on camera and make her dumb faces, but Mady kicks her out, which is hilarious. This is never ever how meeting kids should ever go, but at least Mady admits this is all kinds of bizarre.

Mady does that famous "head-tilt" when she meets Jeff, and that's her unofficial signature nickname here, Head-tilt Mady. Ew, it looks flirtatious. I half expect her to stick an open hand under her chin as she does so. The hell?

I think they borrowed the writers from Keeping Up with the Kardashians as Mady asks "funny" questions about not wanting grown men to be milk drinkers. Mady seems to think she's harnessed power on the order of Oprah so I wonder why she's not concerned a single comment like that could shut down the entire dairy industry.


Mady also makes snide remarks about no stepfather of hers will wear cargo pants. Well, I agree with her there, but still, the "I'm so cute and funny" thing is terribly unattractive.

And stepfather? Mady, your mother has been on one date with these guys, the first question is can she even get through two? Baby steps here!

Todd says he likes sports but if he has to miss a game it's cool. The girls like that answer. Jeff says at age 23 he quit watching all T.V. including sports. (He's too good for Kate!)



Mady acts skeptical of this, calling his answer too smooth. I don't think he's trying to be smooth at all, I think he's absolutely telling the truth. Looking at Jeff's background, how could he do all that he's done while still squeezing in six to ten hours of the T.V. Kate watches a day? He's been busy buying and running a company, traveling all over the place for it, and doing charitable work. Also he's spent the better part of his career abroad where they usually just don't have the good selection of programming we have in the U.S., so there's no point in turning on the T.V. The few times I've bothered to switch the T.V. on when I've been abroad I rarely can find anything to watch. Except in England, where they have really, really decent T.V., like I don't want to leave the AirB&B T.V.!. For longer trips where there might be the odd rainy day where we can't do much (we had two straight days of rain so hard and cold in Iceland it felt unsafe to drive), I've just downloaded stuff from home to my laptop to watch, which was wise.

The rest of the questions are mostly boring, though Mady reveals she and Cara are vegetarians. I couldn't tell if she was joking about that. And we get it, it's all about the twins, who will be out of the house within months at this point, and they do not want a man with kids. Couldn't they make an unselfish exception for an amazing man for their mom? Rhetorical question.

Todd thought his date was a disaster, heh, though he explains it was because of wind and nature out of their control. True, that was out of their control, but Kate's freak outs over it weren't.

Cool, Jeff asks questions of the twins, and Jeff asks a great one, where would THEY like to travel to? I wonder if Kate has ever asked this of them, or if she just tells them where they will go. Mady says Iceland and Cara says Spain. Iceland is a great choice, I think she'd love it. I've never been to Spain but everyone I know who has says it's great though they got very hungry not having dinner until 10 p.m. It's unclear whose idea it was to ask questions but I really like Jeff, he looks like he was sincerely interested in the twins and addressed them individually. He's too good for Kate.

The interviews abruptly end, and we're left completely hanging, not hearing what the twins thought of the two guys or how it went. The heck! We will hear later right?

Kate's first date will be T.J. Adam assures us he's handsome, her age, and a successful entrepreneur.  I think successful entrepreneur might be code for rich or at least Kate thinks this, because she lights up like a Christmas tree when this guy comes around the corner in his business on the bottom, homeless on the top outfit.

Everyone seems to describe these guys as so handsome but they look mostly ordinary to me. Nobody was ugly, but nobody knocked my socks off either. Jeff and Todd both have very friendly faces and warm smiles but neither is really classically handsome. Jeremiah looked like a poor man's version of Vin from Gigolos on Showtime, who never was handsome to me in the first place, though a nice guy. T.J. has that sad little spiky hair thing going on where when you're 45 and your hair is thinning, the spikes end up more like wilting daisies and if he had a girlfriend she would have made him cut those off by now.

T.J. strolls up and I'm not sure who his stylist is but boy is he a mess, and that's the first thing Kate notices. I don't fault her for noticing. The pants and shoes actually aren't that bad, but the weird fitting hoodie that looks almost spandex material he had the bright idea to tuck in really does make him look straight out of Midnight Express. Why is the neck so loose and ill fitting? I also think his haircut is just bad. It's way too short in the back and on the sides. It looks like he did it himself. Still doesn't beat Jeremiah's holey shirt though. That thing was an abomination. There's a pretty clever commercial out now for Downy where a guy is on a first date and ends up in a sad shirt pretty similar to T.J.'s with a stretched out neck and the girl greets him and says, "You look amazingly....comfortable!" Lol, Downy and it's done!

While Kate is right that T.J. is frumpy, I wish she wouldn't let these superficial things hold her back the way they do. I really think if she sees one little thing she doesn't like, it closes her off from even considering the guy. Even things that could easily be changed deeper into the relationship, like she could buy T.J. a new shirt that fits him better and fake pretend you somehow lost his other stupid one in the laundry room somehow. Problem is there will be something superficially wrong with near every man a woman meets. For some it might be too frumpy, others make dumb dad jokes, others are bald, others aren't as tall as you'd prefer, others are too tall. Yet it never seems to occur to her men are sizing up their dates too and a man may be thinking, she looks a little old for 44, or her skin isn't the best, or she could stand to shed a few pounds. But hopefully those things don't hold back well-adjusted people from meeting a great person.

Anyhow, a man who seems too stylish or put together could very well be vain anyway. What Kate fails to understand even at her age is as Robin Williams said, no one is perfect, including you, Kate. What matters is are you perfect for each other? She is stuck on the first question, and can't or won't reach the more important one, the second.


T.J.'s outfit on the couch (er, chair) is way, way better. Just a nice white collared shirt and khaki pants. That looks like someone from wardrobe dressed him. Much better.

They sit down to eat and T.J. thanks her for coming. Why is he thanking her for coming? She should be thanking him for coming, this is her show. Weird.

This date is awkward already. They spend a long awkward time deciding whether to drink at lunch, and Kate suddenly announces she is not an alcoholic. Nobody asked about or implied you were an alcoholic Kate, but I think Step Three is recognizing that if you have to announce you're not an alcoholic unsolicited, you're an alcoholic.

Kate proposes they blindfold each other and point to a drink on the menu for the other to drink. Perhaps that might be as good a way as any for her to pick out which guys she wants a second date with, just blindfold her and have her point. They're having so much fun with this silly game they're losing sight of the task at hand, getting to know each other. The date feels more comfortable now, but all this banter makes it look like date ten I think I might be in love stuff, not first date territory I have no idea who you are.

Kate has said like two legitimately funny things in five episodes and here comes another one, she bursts out laughing and remarks that both their hand-crafted mixed drinks taste the same. Heh, yep! Yep, they tend to, and that's why I don't drink this overpriced nonsense and nobody else should either. A solid red/white wine and good imported beer always stocked in the fridge is all one needs to have a happy alcohol life. And a good whisky for camping.

So what do you do with yourself every day? T.J. asks.

"She hates that question!" Adam says from his secret hiding spot at a nearby booth. I wasn't getting the impression she hated that question, so that's an interesting comment from Adam. Could it be she hates it because what she really does with herself all day is watch T.V., post anonymously on this blog, and drink? But she knows she can't say that because that sounds sad, so she gets annoyed having to spend time thinking up other shit she does like laundry and for some reason making hot lunches for kids who are an hour's drive away at school all day.

Kate manages to answer T.J.'s question without sounding completely obnoxious when she says her kids and dogs fill her time. That's an okay somewhat honest answer but it's too bad she couldn't have a third thing to say on the date, like she also fills her time with cycling, woodworking, watercolor painting, developing fresh takes on the family's favorite recipes, or writing a book. Anything that is of at least mild interest to somebody else and could keep the conversation going.

There's something about T.J. that is really off. He's traveling too much now but will get "one or two goldens" soon, or maybe an "animal farm." He wants unlimited kids. How many kids does he mean exactly by unlimited kids? He then says he wants to build a little army and maybe coach some football. Build a little army?! For what?! Don't tell me he's one of those weird doomsday prepper folks.



I like how Kate can barely even respond to these bizarre comments. She's mostly just a gaping maw. Heh. A tiny part of me thinks T.J. may be punking Kate, and us, which would be pretty great. I wish we had seen the ad for the casting call for this sooner because we could have sent somebody in stealth to respond to it and pull off an epic punk. Too bad.

T.J. is normal enough to still try to press her to tell him more about her and what she is up to, and Kate's first response is not a whole lot, lol. Adam is like oh COME ON what did we just talk about Kate?! Heh. Kate finally manages to mention she likes horseback riding in Wyoming where she has been a ton. Since when does she love horses and does she really go to Wyoming a ton? Last time she was on a horse she screamed like a banshee. She's something else. But whatever at least it's conversation. And if she goes to Wyoming a ton why don't they look for a date for her there instead of North Carolina?

Their second part of the date is at batting cage. I have no idea why anyone would set up a date at a batting cage for someone like Kate who hates sports. That really makes no sense. That's like Rachel-level nonsensical, Adam, come now.

Adam pulls T.J. aside as they head over. T.J. inexplicably thinks the date is going fantastic but Adam thinks T.J.'s personality disappeared on the date maybe due to nerves. I guess he must have spent enough time with T.J. before the date to know that he has a personality. The format of this show is all over the place. This whole segment was Adam coaching T.J. and giving him feedback to try to bring the energy level up, they never show Adam talking to Kate, you know the person who actually needs the help.

Mady and Kate both insist Kate really can't date an athlete or someone into sports. I'm seeing a systematic problem here. Kate wants to date Kate. Except Kate will not be able to find Kate. If she wants to date for real, she has to have a little bit of an open mind about someone who may be interested in things she's not. Tons of couples are not on the same page about sports or many other things, but there are ways to make it work if you have common ground in other areas. It's also okay as a couple to not be exactly alike or like all of the same things. If you like all the same things and end up always doing those same things together, you're going to run out of stories about things you've done independent of each other, and that's boring. That's why it's so hard for couples to work the same job together, because when you spend all your time together you run out of stories you both don't know. I'm afraid at Kate's age if you want to put on your "must" list things like "doesn't like sports" you are again narrowing the pool down to near impossible levels. She doesn't need a drunk shirtless fanatic who spray paints his hair team colors, I'll allow her that, but is it that big of a deal if he has a couple games a week he'd really like to see and that he likes hitting up batting cages now and again? You can find something else productive to do when he's doing that. She freely admits she doesn't want to spend a bunch of time with her man anyway, so she should be glad he has something else he likes to occupy his time and get out of her hair.

At least they show the instructor this time instead of that weird squash game where they just puttered around by themselves without any help. The instructor shows them how to use the batting cage. T.J. is implying the instructor is somebody important but I have no idea who he is and neither does Kate.

Predictably, Kate doesn't like this. She's actually not terrible at this. She's making contact. She doesn't like how T.J. is over the top praising her, high-fiving her, and so on. I think T.J. wants to coach little league, not find a woman.

T.J. says he has "trained" himself to get funnier and funnier. He has unlimited levels, if you stay positive. Serious question, is he high? T.J. is a hard no for me. Something is off. Kate agrees. He's a nice guy and great for someone just not me, Kate says. God strike me down, but that rejection was flat out justified, and finally she did it in a kind and mature way. T.J. has a daughter by the way, and Kate passed on that child's father without having to insult him or mention what a freak he is. His daughter could be watching, you know. Now if only she could turn on this respectful and mature Kate more than the once a year it comes out, she might have found her life unfolded in a very different way.

Her next date is another guy named Jeff. Adam describes him as refined so I guess that's how I'll distinguish him from Dominican Republic tax shelter Jeff from before.

Refined Jeff is probably the most handsome of all her dates so far, and I like that he wore a blazer for the date. He is well groomed, a great dresser, and has kind brown eyes. Some famous celebrity could have said this is my producer husband Refined Jeff and I would believe them.

Jeff is a private investigator and security consultant. He's divorced and has a son. And a cute southern accent. They sit at a bar at a restaurant and some woman they never even introduce is suddenly talking to them about some food tour. Who is this gal?

Kate's definitely had a ton of eye work done. She looks like near all female celebs over the age of 40, that look where it's like sort of a drooping eyelid, but it's a defined droop. Kind of sad.

Kate is 12 years old and refuses to eat oysters and now she's ten and is going to make immature grossed out faces as Refined Jeff eats them like a grown up. I don't know, I get not liking stuff, but on a food tour can't you just suck it up and try it? Out of respect for the chef at least, who is steps away from them. I hate lima beans, but I'd eat them on a food tour and just deal with it.

Refined Jeff wants to know what Kate is looking for in a man. Adam is all excited as this means men want to know if they fit in her box. I don't know, in my experience many flakier men are really quick to ask this question, and I'm not really sure that's the reason they're asking that. And men will ask it on online dating sites a lot, even though everything was laid out very clearly in my profile exactly who I would be interested in. Like, can you read? My theory is many may be asking that to make sure you're not somebody who is really looking to get you to put a ring on it and pop out a few kids and pronto. But if you say I'm just looking to meet new people and have a good time, that's what they'd like to hear. The question is almost always in regards to what kind of commitment are you looking for, and that's it. In my experience, men who really want this question answered are almost always best left on the cutting room floor. This is one of the few times I think Adam is way off the mark about something, here the true meaning behind that ever so popular "what are you looking for" question. And by the way only guys ever ask this, women just don't because most women are dating to find their forever guy not to screw around because they have until their 60s and 70s before fertility ever becomes a factor in anything at all.

The extent of what Kate can say to this question is she wants a man to take care of but not mother. And of course she just has to throw in there, "I did that once and it didn't work out so well."

Ugh, such a vile woman. And she doesn't listen either. Adam just explained to her last episode on your dates stop talking about your divorce and all your petty problems, it's annoying and makes you look negative. Does she not understand a snide comment like that is annoying and makes her look negative? Refined Jeff looks smart, and if he is as smart as I imagine him to be, he's going to get a clue that if she makes smart ass comments like that about about her first ex, she'll do it to Refined Jeff too someday and he seems way too classy and discreet to appreciate somebody who would behave that way.

They are whisked off to a new restaurant by the unidentified lady, and Kate takes forever to say something correct, that being interrupted like this to shift gears and go somewhere else made it difficult to relax and get to know Refined Jeff. Agree, first dates should rarely if ever be at more than one location. You need a chance to settle in with some food and beverages and be left alone by the wait staff to just sink into a conversation. Again this is like date ten level activities, not one.

Jeff came back from the Middle East yesterday working as a security consultant. Maybe that's why he seems to be almost interrogating Kate here though she seems totally comfortable with it. Now he wants to know what qualities she's looking for. As much as I think these questions are a little much, I like that Kate is being put on the spot to describe the man she is looking for whom she is not really looking for, and Jeff is going to be onto her in two seconds flat when she flounders under all this probing.

Kate continues to not listen to Adam and is droning on and on about not being trusting, being burned multiple times, being gun shy. Honesty is important to her. What's Jeff supposed to say, oh well I'll leave right now then because I'm not honest and trustworthy? Oy.

I'm sorry but no man wants to go on a date and hear all about how the woman has trust issues. No man wants a project or to have to prove himself to her. He can find another woman who won't be putting him to the test.

Adam kindly says that Kate is opening up more but then says but yeeesh I sure would have liked her to ask him what is he looking for? Adam, she's never going to ask that because 1. women don't ask the question that way 2. she doesn't care and 3. she isn't really looking for a man. Do you get it yet or are you going to act as dense as Rachel about this?

Ha, Kate flat out says it didn't occur to her to ask that question as she's only interested in what Kate is looking for why would Kate be interested in what some other person wants? Maybe, after a time, if she gets interested, she might be interested in what they're all about. Maybe. Any lingering doubts she's a narcissist? Didn't think so.

Kate does ask more about Jeff's investigation work to which refined Jeff talks about investigating a lot of cheating spouses. Wait, does he do this in the Middle East? Yipe, I heard you get stoned there for such things.

Refined Jeff quickly gets back to Kate, which she doesn't like, now asking about her last relationship. Oh, Jeff, that question is hard for Kate for some reason, because is her last relationship Jon or is it really Jeff Prescott, the guy she keeps lying about not even knowing? I don't like that question anyway and especially not on a first date. I see no need to ask about past relationships unless it somehow affects things currently like you have a kid from it or lingering financial issues. We have never talked about our past in my relationship and likely never will nor is there any need for it.

Kate has a moment of insight when Jeff gives her rather short answers not elaborating much on himself, which is clearly really frustrating her. That this must be what it's like for her date when she does that to them! Right, Kate! Although in Jeff's case, I'm getting a very strong feeling he has absolutely no interest in dating someone on a reality show, is only doing this as a favor to some long-time friend in production because they were short on actors, and doesn't want to reveal too much of himself on T.V. because he actually quite enjoys being a private citizen. By the way, the two Jeffs are the only guys is the whole pool who I believe aren't really just actors. They were the only guys who were specific enough about their jobs to believe that they actually do that job for real as their career. Dollars to doughnuts tax shelter Jeff was also a friend of somebody in production, maybe somebody who went on one of his trips to South America and remembered him and got in touch.

Jeff says something wise about relationships, if you want to find the keys you've gotta look for them. Isn't that true of a lot of life, Kate? Listen to that advice, because it applies to near everything. Whining and sitting around don't find keys to anything.

The unnamed woman interrupts their nice dessert Rachel-style to abruptly end the date. I can't imagine being on a date and having some stranger come up to me in the middle of it and announce okay show's over, now get outta here! Heh. Kate remains frustrated she didn't get a whole lot of information out of Refined Jeff but from what she saw she likes. Jeff thought the date started slow but otherwise was good and he would do a second. I don't think he likes her, he's just being polite.

You know for this second date thing, nobody seems to have contemplated what if Kate picks a second date but he doesn't want a second? Second dates have to be consensual, or should. Again I say, if Kate were a man, people would be calling this show the most sexist and antiquated reality show in modern times.

Suddenly we're in a coffee shop and Cara and Mady are going to meet Joey Bats. They never mentioned they were going to meet more dates later, which is probably something they should have explained because this viewer was confused.

Kate again tries to sit in so she can mug for the cameras but Mady insists Kate must leave. Mady has two reasons for this. One she doesn't want the guy to answer the way he thinks Kate wants him to. I think the guys might answer the way Kate wants them to whether Kate is there, so I don't know about that. The second reason is Mady doesn't want Kate making those obnoxious stupid faces she makes all the time. Now that's a good reason.

Called it, Head-tilt Mady likes Joey Bats. She's being coy and flirtatious. Mady, this guy is for your mother. Mady even admits she thinks he's cute. Ew! Joey has never thought much about kids, which to me is a red flag if he's going to be taking on eight, er six kids, of Kate's. If he's never thought about it that means he's never thought about what it would do to his lifestyle to put a kid first, even an older child. Joey is apparently 22 years old and visits bars 3-4 times a week and more. Even Mady thinks that's a lot. It's a lot. Joey justifies this as New York City, whatever that's supposed to mean. He's not right for this family cute and sweet as he is. He's still stuck in his 20's, and I foresee him resenting it when he can't go meet his buddy at the bar when he's in town because they have to drive a child to a soccer tournament across the state all weekend. Joey asks to ask the twins questions and they get talking about how annoying the younger kids are. What do they care the younger kids don't clean up and do their chores? That's none of their business, that's on Kate to deal with. It's disappointing even at 18 years old the twins still view their lovely younger siblings with such immature scorn and trash them to complete strangers to boot. Uncouth.

At the end of the interview Mady announces she just loved Joey Bats, thinks he's great. Joey Bats seems like the sort of guy who knows exactly how to get girls of all ages chasing after him even though he would never actually end up with most of them. Kind of like how I bet that Ronnie guy was the twins were enamored with. He'd never dare do anything inappropriate, but that's not going to stop him from letting two very young girls crush all over him. Mady, who has proved herself to be as selfish as Kate can be, wants Joey for Kate anyway even though she admits Joey is probably not right for Kate. Sigh.

Kate sits down with the twins, and this conversation sounds much more like she is agonizing over who to hire as a personal assistant or house manager or nanny rather than what man to go on a simple second date with. It's so intense and serious. Apparently the twins have a top two, Joey and somebody else, and Kate has a top two, which she implies maybe might be different. Why aren't we being told who the dueling top two are? That's the whole fun of this. The hide the ball thing here was a poor editing choice and just annoying. And wait a second, how could they each have a different top two when the twins only met three guys? Therefore unless Kate's top two includes somebody the twins never met, by default they have to have at least one guy in common they want in the top two. I am hurting my head thinking so hard about this.

Also, it all just seems so stupid. If Kate has her top two and the twins have a different top two, why not give them all a second chance and go out again with all four? Based on what rule book is she not allowed to go on four dates and must only go on two dates? What contrived nonsense!

Next time, Rachel's baaaaaack. Haha. And she's acting like this is not awkward at all that she got fired, which it completely is. Like hashtag awkward levels, Rachel. Something about Kate making out, blech. And Tax Shelter Jeff's hand, which I recognize by the distinctive Prince Harry bracelets, brushes Kate's hair from her face as she recoils. Just one episode left of this abomination, praise be.