Sunday, January 17, 2010

Uncle Kevin and Jon Go Out for Drinks

We're so happy to see the Kreiders back in the children's lives, at least when Jon is on duty. Forgiveness.

57 sediments (sic) from readers:

Irene said...

Family 1st. The relatives have a right to be involved in those children's lives. I cannot imagine where I'd be without loving, caring relatives.

And, Sorry TLC, there is nothing against the law about going out for a beer especially with a relative. Throw this idea in the wastebasket and don't try something else to ruin Jon with.

Administrator said...

I don't think relatatives have a right to see the children but I think absent abuse or dysfunction relatives SHOULD be permitted to support and build relationships with the children. As the old saying goes, friends come and go but family is forever. These are the people you can really count on to be there forever for the kids. They came back even after everything that happened. That is what family does. Jon is giving his kids a real gift in allowing them back into the family. And no, there is nothing wrong with buddies having a drink together. Team Kate will have to do better than that. At least come up with a stripper there too or something.

Irene said...

I hear what you are saying about relatives/rights. I guess I believe different than some. I just could never imagine relatives not having or being able to have a part in my lives. I have never understood the estrangement between Kate & relatives. And, I just do not buy the answers she has given about the relatives on Jon & Kate plus 8 or interviews she has given. It doesn't make sense. And, it speaks of her character & will be a roadblock in re-imaging her.

Anonymous said...

The Kreiders will be in divorce court before you know it. I'm sure administrator will help mediate.

fidosmommy said...

I think Kevin and Jodi are stabilizers in these children's lives and when they got pulled out, the children suffered greatly. What I saw on the show was Jodi being a real hands-on caretaker
who let the kids try out new skills, who interacted with each child well, and who clearly enjoyed them even when they exhausted her. Is it possible Kate saw Jodi as a threat? I don't know, but it has crossed my mind. Now that Jon can make some basic unilateral decisions about who can see his children during his time with them, it's wonderful to see he's bringing in some family. I pray somehow that Rev. and Mrs. Kreider will be the next ones Jon calls.

Administrator said...

The problem with giving relatives rights is that it means parents would have the right to choose who is in their children's lives taken away. Until the child is 18, absent abuse a parents has a right to control that. Most good parents use the right wisely, allowing good people around and weeding out bad people. An unfortunate consequence is sometimes good people are not allowed around for bad reasons. As I believe was the case here. And yes I also think much of Kate's problems with Jodi stemmed from jealousy.

Irene said...

Good discussion. I think Kate sees anything as a threat. I cannot get that conversation out of my head with Jon and Chris Coumo where Jon accused Kate of not wanting him to go and visit his own mother. I know people who squash their loved ones/and relationships like that. Kate strikes me as a the type of personality who does that.
I also remember an edited time on Jon & Kate plus 8 when Mady received a phone call from a school friend.

I do not know the answers. However, Kate better get over Kate or she is gonna have more problems then she ever imagined.

my9cats said...

IMO so what if they go out. It's not like they're the first to do so and they certainly won't be the last.
If Jon brought the kids with him or left them in the car, THEN there would be grounds for a complaint. There are a few out of control bloggers out there. Especially on ROL. I worry for Jon that one will view herself as an avenging angel and do something bad.

Anonymous said...

Jon's the one who likes to play with guns you have nothing to worry about.

Administrator said...

I've handled many domestic violence cases in court, sometimes representing victims and sometimes perpetrators. I've had extensive domestic violence training. I can tell you that isolating one's partner from their friends and families is a CLASSIC sign that there is DV. The perp seeks control, and one of the best ways to keep that control is to isolate their partner from any kind of support system outside themselves. They shut them away so that no one will interfere with the relationship (for instance, a mother suggesting her daughter GET OUT and offering help to do so).

We have numerous confirmed reports, even from Jon and the Kreiders themselves, that Kate severely restricted Jon's access to his closest friends and family members. I'm not suggesting Kate hurt Jon physically, but I do think there were many elements of an emotionally abusive relationship. Which by definition, is indeed domestic violence. If it were Jon isolating Kate, there would be uproar. But since she is the woman in the relationship and a man is supposed to sort of buck up and stop being such a baby, this aspect of their relationship has gotten little attention.

Anonymous said...

Yes, an issue that gets little or no attention is emotional abuse and how it can affect the partner being abused. They are made to feel like everything is their fault, and that they're somehow not "good enough." This may happen slowly, over years--with effusive "rewards" given when the partner does what the abuser wants-- to an exagerrated negative response when the partner falls short or refuses to do something.
My brother was in such a relationship a while back. She refused to come to any family gathering or occasion and thought up excuses or made up crises so that my brother wouldn't come. If he went to visit my parents without her, she'd invariably call about 5 minutes after he got there to summon him home --usually making up a (false) story why he was needed --"I smell a gas leak," or "one of the dogs ran away," etc. She was great at talking and manipulating herself out of these lies.
Finally, after things got even worse, my brother left. He's happily married now to a wonderful woman.

So, this is why the Kate and Jon dynamic bothers me--I saw it happen to a family member and the pain it caused.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how Jodi feels about her husband staying out until 4:am. Maybe he's not so happy at home ???

Irene said...

Well, considering Kevin and Jon seem to be moving on maybe it is time for Kate to move on also & mend fences with her family. The kids are the ones missing out and this woman claims she has laid down her life for them.

Anonymous said...

I would think Jodi needs to humble herself. And if she doesn't it's best the kids stay clear of her. The things she said about their mother. God forgive her

Anonymous said...

Kevin and Jon out chasing girls until 4:am has nothing to do with Kate. It's my bet Jodi has herself to blame

Anonymous said...

Irene is a despicable human being with her cancer comment.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for deleting Irene's cancer comment.

Kate is not cut off from her family. She is close to two sisters and in contact with others in the family.

After the cheating comment on Radaronline, it will take time for Kevin and Kate to reconnect. That only makes sense (I think Jon set them up).

itsaboutthekids said...

Only Kate and her family know the real dynamics between them, and the more contact she has with them the better off those 8 kids will be. They need their relatives. There has been mud slinging on both sides of this mess since they decided to make a public spectacle out of the divorce, and TLC held the prod that kept it going "for ratings". The ONLY thing TLC couldn't control was Jon and his decision to remove the kids from TV. And boy are they ever pissed off about that!! Of course, we all have heard how Kate is a contract honorer. LOL

Anonymous said...

Jon only pulled the show because of the name change. Jon has used the children more than TLC or anyone else. Taking the kids down to the fence for photo's and don't forget the twins birthday. All for money for Jon. Only a fool would say he stopped the TLC show because it was hurting his children

Administrator said...

I think it had more to do with TLC not letting Jon do what he wanted....go to bars, date girls, divorce Kate, talk bad about TLC. They dangled things like a motorcycle in front of him if he promised to be good. He felt trapped and controlled, similar to his marriage to Kate. He finally snapped.

No, I don't think it had to do with the kids. He just knew how to hit TLC where it hurts. Nonetheless, the point is the kids are off TV.

Anonymous said...

And Jon faces a heavy law suit with a skid row lawyer. LOL

Anonymous said...

Can anyone tell me why it was fine with Aunt Jodi and her children to be on the show and when she wasn't able to cash in on it she became a child activist????? Does anyone here know ??????
And what about her hate site's with the donation tip jar ?????? I heard it was being looked into.

itsaboutthekids said...

I don't know Jodi personally and I've not had a conversation with her, but she seems to be genuinely concerned about the welfare of her nieces and nephews. Kate called on her many times to help out and take care of those kids, with or without cameras around. I believe Jodi and Kevin gradually realized the toll it was taking on the children and, as relatives, felt compelled to do something to protect them. I'm glad they became child activists because that's what it's going to take to make sure other families and their children are protected on reality TV shows. I hope they are successful in their efforts.

I don't know anything about hate site/donation tip jar/etc.

Administrator said...

Keep in mind Jodi's kids were only on the show, briefly, for a few seasons. Then Jodi was out. I think when Jodi realized what a toll this was taking on her family, both emotionally and time-wise, she finally grew a pair and realized she needed to get paid for all her sacrifices. And there's a difference between filming a few episodes, which was how this show started, and filming 100 plus episodes. The line had to be drawn somewhere and I think it wasn't clear it was detrimental to the kids until it became a beast of its own, at least a few seasons into it. I don't think Jodi realized what was happening until she was knee deep in it.

Keep in mind everyone has said Jodi babysat for all these kids, plus her own, for FREE. Just enough person the Gosselins used.

Administrator said...

And yes, I do think she has the children's best interests at heart. 99 percent of what I see from her is about the kids. And if she was just in it for the money or fame, then why was she spotted STILL visiting the kids, after Jon permitted her, once the cameras had been turned off? If she was a famewhore, why bother to resume a relationship now that the show is over. That proves it right there.

itsaboutthekids said...

Actually, I believe Jodi has always said she didn't care about getting paid, but TLC felt it only right to make the offer. When Kate found out she said No Way! Only she was going to make money off those kids. Or something similar. I think it can be pretty easily proven as to what happened.

Anonymous said...

The only thing Jodi has proven is that she is evil and full of hate wanting to destroy a mother of eight children alone trying to support them. Google about the donation jar on moon's site. I'm sure you know about it

itsaboutthekids said...

I think it wasn't long after this when Kate stopped using Jodi and they were no longer allowed to see the kids. And so it goes with Kate....

Administrator said...

I don't think it's any coincidence that when Jodi was no longer needed, she was discarded. Kate used to NEED Jodi to babysit the kids for free. Now she can afford nannies, and the crew watched the kids too. Suddenly Jodi disappeared. And yes, that seems to be her pattern. As soon as you're of no use anymore, you are out. Over and over again, Kate has shown her only use for people is to her own benefit. Otherwise, she doesn't bother with you.

Anonymous said...

So what you're saying is that after Kate didn't need jodi anymore it was ok for her to want to destroy Kate. That made it ok to work the hate site's. Is that it?????????

itsaboutthekids said...

Sorry, but I have to disagree...

Kate is NOT raising her kids alone...PERIOD!
I don't know why this lie continues to be perpetuated. Jon has visitation and Jon pays child support. The children love Jon and Jon loves the children. That's obvious when you see the hugs and kisses they exchange. Kate leaves the kid's home when it's Jon's visitation time. She is not there, only Jon. Sometimes she goes to shop, sometimes to spend 20 hours getting her hair done etc. That's what we know from her PR campaign. That's all she and TLC will allow us to know.

The tip jar at moon's site was to help her recup some of the expenses of operating and paying for the blog. It has NOTHING to do with Jodi, the Gosselins, or any other of the cast of thousands. It was on a voluntary basis and it never totally covered her expenses. Moon was nice that way.

I know you are trying to defend Kate and her situation, but when Kate kicked Jon out and said they were done, she pretty much started the ball rolling on all this. I doubt that either of them foresaw the ramifications of their individual decisions.

Administrator said...

Let's not blame the whistleblower. Jodi wasn't trying to destory Kate, she was trying to blow the whistle on the kids being exploited and a sham of a show. It's Kate and Jon's fault they ever got to the point where their own family had to go to the media to stop what they were doing. This is why whistleblowers are protected by law, because people turn on them and blame them, instead of blaming the person responsible in the first place.

Anonymous said...

Oh yes and the whistleblowers made a chunk of money blowen the whistle. And even you can't be blind to what Jon's true color's are. It didn't happen overnight. And yes his children love and need him.
I would love to nothing more than to see this family unit come together but if you were Kate would you want anything to do with them ? I sure wouldn't. And the tip jar on a free blog site used to hate on a mother of eight.. Come on you can do better than that

itsaboutthekids said...

Sorry, but I don't believe Jodi is out to destroy Kate at all. I think she loves those children. She spent hours upon hours and days upon days with them. They are her number one concern, and because they are, she would wish for them a mom that will provide tender, loving care. Administrator is right, why would she and Kevin reach out to Jon and try to make amends if they didn't care?

And I have no problem with Jon and Kevin going out on a bar crawl. And I'm guessing it was with Jodi's blessing. When you are secure in your marriage you let your partner have their own time. My hubby's done the same with his friends on occasion and I think it's good for the guys.

itsaboutthekids said...

Honestly, I would hate for Jon and Kate to come back together. Unless there was a ton of counseling for both of them I don't see how it would ever work. They are TOXIC to each other right now after all that's happened. I truly believe Kate has narcissistic issues that she will not admit to. It's sad and scary at the same time. I think Jon did snap when all this came down and he's done a lot of borderline crazy things, but he says he is in counseling and the pendelum seems to be swinging back to the middle for him.

All of us have faults...admitting that we have them and doing something about it is the only way to grow. I think Kate is still in total denial. I wish, for the kids, she would see what precious moments she's missing, but I think she's going to have to hit bottom first, and even that might not wake her.

Anonymous said...

I can see you are blind and only time will tell. But Jodi and Kevin's fall is not far away. Hate has a way of finding its way back to the giver. So does love so we will see. I see no love coming out of jodi. Only time will tell.
And yes guy's always want strange. Its good for them.

itsaboutthekids said...

Oh, and I believe free blogs to the bloggers still have operational costs to the administrators, at least that's what I'm told. I will agree that sometimes people get carried away on the trivial and loose sight of the important issues. Child labor to be exact. But there is a secondary concern here that's worrisome and that is, along with the network, there is a mother that, for whatever reasons (money & fame?) is willing to condone the exploitation of these children and have them continue in the workforce. These are CHILDREN! It's beyond me how people do not understand that 3-5-7 days a week and who knows how many hours a day these kids are forced to have cameras filming their every action. In my mind, as a mother and a grandmother, it's just wrong...

itsaboutthekids said...

Because we disagree does not mean that I'm blind. And yes, time will tell. Karma's a real bit**.

Administrator said...

I'm never going to be persuaded that a reality show set, filming this much, cameras around all the time, and being made famous without the opportunity to ever go back, was good for four year olds and eight year olds. In fact, it was very detrimental. When your gut says something is wrong here, that this isn't good for kids .... why take a chance on kids? Go with your gut. And it was a heck of a lot of guts saying the same thing.

I have had the opposite impression of Jodi, I found her loving and sincere and earnest. If she were in the media all the time like Kate Major or Hailey, or gee, Kate and Jon themselves, then I would question her motives. But since she blew the whistle we've only seen her appear once for a discreet visit with the kids. She did a handful of interviews to whistleblow, then stepped aside. She is certainly not on some kind of rampage here to throw Kate off a cliff, far from it.

Anonymous said...

Yes I'm glad we can disagree. It will all come out in the wash. If I'm wrong about Jodi and her hatefulness I will apologize. I hope y'all will do the same.
And in the meantime I wouldn't throw any money jodi's sisters way if I was you.

itsaboutthekids said...

Absolutely I would apologize! The one thing I think we can agree on is that we want the kids to be healthy and happy and have the childhood they deserve.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we do agree on that.

Irene said...

What bothers me is with no protections, laws or regulations in place, companies like TLC, for instance have the upper hand, where children are concerned. These reality shows,or documentaries, are eye candy to families who are scraping to get by. Look no further than the Gosselins and it is crystal clear. No protections, no safeguards, no contractions or pay, no consent able to be given by these children. The Gosselin contract with TLC, while we do not have the exact details, was very confining at best. Jon leaked he wasn't even allowed to photograph his own children. Uncle Kevin & Aunt Jodi blew the "whistle" for awareness that this was alot more than just a 30 minute show & real lives were at stake here. Further, I think as relatives they tried to talk to Kate but she had a one track mind...TLC.
What I am trying to say is...If nothing else comes out of all this I hope the children are never on television again. Further, I hope that other families thinking about doing this stop, drop & roll away before putting their children through this. The Dilly sextuplet parents always kept their perspective, and still do. The children are theirs. And, while doing a book or going on GMA for a day is all fine and dandy making it your lifestyle could do harm to your children.

Beejcctx said...

Irene:

I agree with you - but let's take it a step further. No kids on ANY reality shows: Nanny 911, SuperNanny, WifeSwap, etc. They are also harmful manipulative productions. I watched a WifeSwap on a whim with my 15-yr old daughter last year and the kids were over-acting for the camera, and one even started screaming and yelling - all inappropriate. All staged - more than likely by the producers.

And let's consider that as well - fallout like Balloon Boy from greedy attention seeking parents. There should be no more kids in Reality TV without proper legal/financial and emotional protections.

Irene said...

Yes, I agree. I want to even stress that after following this show for all 100+ episodes and the drama that ensued after the divorce I wonder this.

If the 8 Gosselin children were allowed to give consent would they do a show any show in this format or would they choose not to? What I mean is would the children in the end much rather have a childhood & a loving mother at home with them or would they want to go to the Statue of Liberty, see their parents sporadically, and have to be on a Reality show & do all the work & sacrifice around it to have the show.

I know what I am asking is a loaded question. But, I see everything about the Gosselin life has turned into a media spectacle and my heart really does yearn for the children, past, present and future that will be under the microscope of cameras.

Administrator said...

"If the 8 Gosselin children were allowed to give consent would they do a show any show in this format or would they choose not to?"

I think that just brings to light my strong belief that children this age don't have the maturity, mental capacity, or foresight to GIVE consent. That is why children aren't allowed to vote, get married, have consensual sex, WORK, skip school, etc. They are NOT old enough to make good decisions regarding these important decisions when they are 5 and 9.

Even if the Gosselin children said YES we want to do a show--bottom line is they are too young to make that decision.

Irene said...

Yes, I agree with you. I wonder though why TLC & Kate in the past have used the argument though that the kids wanted to do this. For example, at one point Jon & Kate said they had a family meeting about signing up each season. That had to be a lie though because when Jon clearly stated from the couch he did not know if he wanted to continue this he was ignored by TLC &Kate. Also, sometimes since MAY 2009 Kate has said she has nothing but 8 crying kids that the show is over. I just do not understand or believe it at all.

Just Curious said...

None of us really know who Kate communicates with in her family. My only problem with Jodi is the cheating whisper. I know that I would no longer want a relationship with that person. Her own brother said nothing to defend her.

My whole take on this thing is Jon is reconnecting with the Kreiders for his TLC contract court case. He knows how they feel about the kids being filmed and this is exactly what he wants them to say in court.

The hair extenstentions were done on Jon's custody weekend so i don't understand what all the fuss is about. She should be free to do what she wants on her noncustody days just as Jon is.

I think once the TLC case is over the Kreiders will no longer be of any use to Jon.

As the children's mother Kate has the right to decide who she wants in her children's lives on a regular basis. These are our rights as parents.

I'm not saying I agree with her but it is her right.

Just Curious said...

Jon has the right to go out but what astounds me is it was his custody weekend and not one word about his staying out all night.

Kate gets her hair done on her noncustody time and everyone goes crazy about it. Jon goes bar crawling on his custody time and well that seems to be ok.

I just don't get it.

Just Curious said...

Jon has the right to go out but what astounds me is it was his custody weekend and not one word about his staying out all night.

Kate gets her hair done on her noncustody time and everyone goes crazy about it. Jon goes bar crawling on his custody time and well that seems to be ok.

I just don't get it.

Irene said...

Yes, I agree. I want to even stress that after following this show for all 100+ episodes and the drama that ensued after the divorce I wonder this.

If the 8 Gosselin children were allowed to give consent would they do a show any show in this format or would they choose not to? What I mean is would the children in the end much rather have a childhood & a loving mother at home with them or would they want to go to the Statue of Liberty, see their parents sporadically, and have to be on a Reality show & do all the work & sacrifice around it to have the show.

I know what I am asking is a loaded question. But, I see everything about the Gosselin life has turned into a media spectacle and my heart really does yearn for the children, past, present and future that will be under the microscope of cameras.

Administrator said...

"If the 8 Gosselin children were allowed to give consent would they do a show any show in this format or would they choose not to?"

I think that just brings to light my strong belief that children this age don't have the maturity, mental capacity, or foresight to GIVE consent. That is why children aren't allowed to vote, get married, have consensual sex, WORK, skip school, etc. They are NOT old enough to make good decisions regarding these important decisions when they are 5 and 9.

Even if the Gosselin children said YES we want to do a show--bottom line is they are too young to make that decision.

Administrator said...

I'm never going to be persuaded that a reality show set, filming this much, cameras around all the time, and being made famous without the opportunity to ever go back, was good for four year olds and eight year olds. In fact, it was very detrimental. When your gut says something is wrong here, that this isn't good for kids .... why take a chance on kids? Go with your gut. And it was a heck of a lot of guts saying the same thing.

I have had the opposite impression of Jodi, I found her loving and sincere and earnest. If she were in the media all the time like Kate Major or Hailey, or gee, Kate and Jon themselves, then I would question her motives. But since she blew the whistle we've only seen her appear once for a discreet visit with the kids. She did a handful of interviews to whistleblow, then stepped aside. She is certainly not on some kind of rampage here to throw Kate off a cliff, far from it.

itsaboutthekids said...

Sorry, but I have to disagree...

Kate is NOT raising her kids alone...PERIOD!
I don't know why this lie continues to be perpetuated. Jon has visitation and Jon pays child support. The children love Jon and Jon loves the children. That's obvious when you see the hugs and kisses they exchange. Kate leaves the kid's home when it's Jon's visitation time. She is not there, only Jon. Sometimes she goes to shop, sometimes to spend 20 hours getting her hair done etc. That's what we know from her PR campaign. That's all she and TLC will allow us to know.

The tip jar at moon's site was to help her recup some of the expenses of operating and paying for the blog. It has NOTHING to do with Jodi, the Gosselins, or any other of the cast of thousands. It was on a voluntary basis and it never totally covered her expenses. Moon was nice that way.

I know you are trying to defend Kate and her situation, but when Kate kicked Jon out and said they were done, she pretty much started the ball rolling on all this. I doubt that either of them foresaw the ramifications of their individual decisions.

Anonymous said...

The only thing Jodi has proven is that she is evil and full of hate wanting to destroy a mother of eight children alone trying to support them. Google about the donation jar on moon's site. I'm sure you know about it

itsaboutthekids said...

Actually, I believe Jodi has always said she didn't care about getting paid, but TLC felt it only right to make the offer. When Kate found out she said No Way! Only she was going to make money off those kids. Or something similar. I think it can be pretty easily proven as to what happened.

itsaboutthekids said...

I don't know Jodi personally and I've not had a conversation with her, but she seems to be genuinely concerned about the welfare of her nieces and nephews. Kate called on her many times to help out and take care of those kids, with or without cameras around. I believe Jodi and Kevin gradually realized the toll it was taking on the children and, as relatives, felt compelled to do something to protect them. I'm glad they became child activists because that's what it's going to take to make sure other families and their children are protected on reality TV shows. I hope they are successful in their efforts.

I don't know anything about hate site/donation tip jar/etc.

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