Thursday, February 13, 2014

Discussion Thread: Couples Therapy episode 7, "Crumbs of Love"



VH1,  check local listings.

405 sediments (sic) from readers:

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Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I can't find the name of this episode anywhere.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


Regarding the snow days, private schools in PA do not have to follow the state mandated 180 days of school. The mandate is only for public schools which are funded by tax dollars.

&&&

That's what I thought, I thought there were even court cases on this about how private schools are not subject to state educational requirements. Hence the running joke that the more money you pay the less your kids have to go to school.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Kate's need for anger.

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She is frequently angry and hateful. I wonder if those feelings make her feel good, like a rush, like an addict. Whereas for normal people anger and hate feels bad. She can't stop hating Jon even when he's not doing anything objectionable.

Dwindle said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 166. She is like a child being forced to do something they don't want to do who spends more time and effort whining about it than simply just going along with it and getting on with life.

444444444444444

This is actually VERY typical behavior and thought process from someone with (what used to be called) a narcissistic personality disorder. Then they complain about how exhausted they are, that they have done NOTHING but work on this issue non stop and they will be full of blame for anyone else who is remotely related to the matter. It really is because they have spent a great deal of mental effort looking for ways to avoid getting the work completed or the matter resolved, so yes it is true that the issue at hand HAS consumed them. But when you point out to the that the matter is exactly in the same state it was a week ago and NO work has been attempted or completed - look out! They will deflect from the original issue with all the nasty personal attacks they can muster including, but not limited to, listing rather viciously every mistake or misstep you yourself have ever made going back for years.

Looking forward to your recap on this episode, Admin!

Bitchy Pants said...

RIP Ralph Waite -- John Walton, Sr. on "The Waltons", Booth's grandfather on "Bones" and so many other wonderful shows.

Re TFMJG's twitfest this morning -- What was the question that elicited the statement that she had "trust issues" with the kids' friends. Or is it that the kids have trust issues with their friends? Can anyone elaborate on that? TIA

localyocul said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 1
I can't find the name of this episode anywhere.

((((((((

"Crumbs of Love"

http://www.vh1.com/shows/couples_therapy/episode.jhtml?episodeID=221981x

The Empress Was Stripped Bare-Nekkid said...

Good point, Admin. I think Kate's a Crisis Junkie. As much as she acts like she's all about order & organization, I believe she thrives on chaos & confusion.

Remona Blue said...

Bringing this over from previous thread:

Thank you all for your kind wishes. The last time I had to go to pawn shops to search for things he stole from me and was unable to locate things stolen from the neighbors, I was DONE.

However, he still is in the lives and tormenting those I love, and breaking the hearts of abandoned children. I'm way more upset for his children than I am for me. I simply can't get past that, so I remain judgmental and bitter about him and try to fill the hearts of the children with all the love and caring I can. They are worth it, and I'd rather be filled w/love for them than think about him.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Dwindle, that is so interesting. This is where I don't have much experience to draw on. Although my narcissist did do their fair share of complaining, whining, woe is me-ing, when the rubber met the road they would put their big girl pants on, shut up, and get on with it.

They worked VERY hard, and also worked quite hard to foster good relationships with those that could not be gotten rid of. Sure, it felt self serving (for instance, sucking up to the ex so he'll take your son all summer because he needs to stay in the states and go to summer school or he's going to flunk, and you want to screw around in Europe for two months and not have to pay a 24/7 babysitter for him), but at the end of the day if you have a good relationship with these people no matter what your reasons, it only benefits everyone.

I think this is where a workaholic must take all must be the best personality butts heads with a narcissistic personality. A LOT of celebs are narcissistic, most people do not seek out that lifestyle without some level of that, but I don't think most celebs are so lazy. Kate will work harder at getting out of work than any real work she has ever done in her life. This is unusual behavior for a successful celeb IMO.

localyocul said...

Bitchy Pants said... 5
RIP Ralph Waite -- John Walton, Sr. on "The Waltons", Booth's grandfather on "Bones" and so many other wonderful shows.

Re TFMJG's twitfest this morning -- What was the question that elicited the statement that she had "trust issues" with the kids' friends. Or is it that the kids have trust issues with their friends? Can anyone elaborate on that? TIA

*******

Heather Boucher ‏@MyLittleBrood 8h
@Kateplusmy8 is it hard to make friends for you or the kids after everything? How do you know who to trust?

Kate Gosselin ‏@Kateplusmy8 8h
@MyLittleBrood they have reg friends in/out of school.Trust IS an issue, obviously,4 me but we work thru it. I have 8super friendly kids!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Thank you kindly local! I think those crumbs refer to that pig Wu Tang.

Tucker's Mom said...

Bitchy Pants said... 5
RIP Ralph Waite -- John Walton, Sr. on "The Waltons", Booth's grandfather on "Bones" and so many other wonderful shows.
******
Oh no! I loved him in everything, from The Waltons to NCIS.
"Goodnight, John"

localyocul said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 11
Thank you kindly local! I think those crumbs refer to that pig Wu Tang.

***

Yeah, poor Kelsey

fidosmommy said...

Many years ago, in a psychology class or workshop setting, the leader told us that some people need someone to hate. It gives them a focus, it gives them a sense of superiority ("what a doofus!") and it gives them something to do. Those who have focused hatred can switch their disdain to a new target, but there will always -ALWAYS- be a target who is the cause of the universe's troubles.
r
I had a boss who was like that. His hate hit several people, one at a time over 5 year period, and each one in turn was the sole reason things were falling apart. He never did see the common denominator theory in any of it.
But he felt justified, satisfied and kept his pointing finger well sharpened.

Bitchy Pants said...

Thanks, localyocal. Interesting. Eight "super friendly" kids, eh? Then why do they have problems with peer relationships? Trust issues for her? There's that paranoia kicking in. And her ego blindness. She can't see that some of her "tweeties" are using her. As long as they keep her ego stroked, they can get away with just about anything.

Meagler said...

So why are the questions not visible on her timeline? I clicked " show conversation" but none of the questions would come up. You mean to say every single tweeter had a private account? me no think so...twitter bots? Can they ask questions?

My kidlet goes for MRI on the 25th. Hopefully some final answers. I am so praying that what they thought they saw ( torn aorta) is not so!!! I must admit between the flu, kidlet worries, and rental neighbors from H.*.L.L. I am tired. I think I have hit a wall....

And I really liked John Walton Sr...may be be Resting in Peace!

lukebandit said...

Oh, I got to go today, had several inches of snow and it was about all gone today! I was suppose to be there at 6am but didn't get there till 12! Had a good day today.

OTOH, TCFW makes my blood boil about her whining about not hardly even able to get a shower. What in SAM'S BLAZES is wrong with her??? She is the Liar who Tells Lies. Whopper Lies!

The reason why I am extra mad is because she has no clue when you are in bad health and at the mercy of people who could care less about you if you get a shower or not. In the Nhome I was in before the one I am in now, I went there in Oct. 2006 and was freed June 2007. Do you know how many times I took a shower in 8 months?

NONE. NOT ONE SINGLE SHOWER. And, my hair was not washed but about 6 times over 8 months. Also, I was almost 5 hours away. A bad RN lied to my mother about how she had just changed my Foley but when I finally got here, it had been 4 to 6 months. I had a roommate that would holler at me to stop coughing because of all the fluid buildup. She would say, I wish you would get on out of here. I took that as in, I wish you would die.

My elderly missionary mentor, Marie wanted me out of there when I got accepted closer to home. She paid for the trip, I was packed up ready to go. They came to get me and they told the amb. people that I was sick and they wanted them to leave. My ride to freedom was gone. I found out 2 hours later. And I missed being in town for my oldest son's wedding. I regret not calling the police. Then the next day, my roommate was being really really bad so they were going to move me because all my things were packed and guess where they wanted to put me? In a freaking closet. Yes, a closet. I called my mother and told her she started screaming crying, they better not put you in a closet! I felt so bad for my mother, so much stress on her, because she is not well.

But, I survived the pits of hell. Also there, one night a man tried to come into my room but decided not to because he realized I was awake. He was standing at the door with his eye in the small crack of the light. There was one bright spot there. An angel nurse named Erica. RN, she should be a PA or even Dr. Compassionate, kind and helped me and she would snarl at the lazy RN who eventually left the Foley in for months. She was so good to me in that den of demons. My mother filed a formal complaint with the state and they said no big deal about not taking a shower for long periods of time, something to that effect.

Yep, TCFW does not have a clue what is coming down the road around the bend in a caravan, just for her, complete with a vanity license plate, ITSNJFIIMF.

It's not Jon's fault, it is my fault.

JoyinVirginia said...

The dh and I were just talking about how my mom used to say everything came in three s, taking about people dying. So just coincidence that we have lost Sid Caesar, Shirley Temple, and now ralph Waite.

njay said...

But I cannot judge those who are in the throes of addiction with the simple, "they choose to remain addicted." I've known several addicts in my lifetime and know it's not simply a choice they are making. Once addiction gets you around the throat, it's fierce.
------------------------
Boy you said a mouth full there and I thank you for your opinion. I have shared here a few times how my mom got addicted to pills when she had a baby drowned in the bathtub when the baby was ten months old. I was born pretty much to help take her place. There is six of us and I am the youngest.

Mom has been an addict my whole life. I'm am 55. Because of the way we were raised and how I saw mom, I swore that I would never try drugs or alcohol. I went 25 years holding to my promise to myself. Things had gone pretty good in my life. I became a minister/pastor when I was 18 and was director of the youth in my church state wide for two years and traveled around the state holding revivals. Those were some of the best years of my life. It brought great joy and purpose to who I am and who I wanted to be.

When I was 25 I had a gastric bypass. Something went wrong and I was in constant pain. That's when my life turned into hell. I kept telling myself to only take the pills when I hurt so I wouldn't end up like mom. It took a few years and a good, loving doctor who helped me see that my body became addicted. There I was. My worst fear happened. I was like mom.

If anyone thinks that is a choice of life and you are so critical in your judgement, you are just wrong, wrong, wrong and I fear for your karma. Unless you are rich or have a good insurance, you might as well kiss any help goodbye. It is a vicious circle. I would HATE using so I would take the pills to make it through and when I came down I would HATE myself again for not being strong enough to use. So guess what, I'd use again. There were times that I thought of doing a crime because then the state would have to get me some help. I premeditated taking my own life all the time and followed through one time.

It is a HORRIBLE life and it follows you every where you go for the rest of your life. So many people have the attitude that you are just week. Or they think that you must not want it bad enough. It makes life real hard.

To give an example, the past few weeks I have had all the symptoms that come with a heart attack. The symptoms could also be panic attacks. My family are all over me to go to the ER but the minute you go and tell them you are an addict your care falls to the floor. They think you are there for drugs. 3 months ago when I had a kidney stone the size of a marble, the week before they found it I had gone to the ER with blood in my urine and in so much pain, the doc I saw then did only what covered the basic their told for a ER doc. Another time I dragged my sis along so she could see what happens for herself and she did. Two out of 4 times has been a bad experience lately for me. So why would I want to put myself through that again. I almost would rather take my chances that it's a panic attack then go through all that crap and humiliation again.

I've been clean and still follow up with my rehab doctor for around ten years now and am open with any doctor I see. What's really stupid and frustrating is that if I just wanted drugs, all I have to do is pick up the phone. I just don't get it. To anyone here on this blog, if you know someone who is or might be, have compassion and support without judgement or enabling. Their mind is not being run by the same person it was when you first knew them and they are just as ashamed and embarrassed as you are. If you feel helpless can you imagine how they feel?

Oh my said...

Thank you for sharing, Njay.

Only those of us who have been addicted can verify that it's not a choice. I do choose to stay clean and sober TODAY but never know if or when that would end. Nobody chooses to hate themselves. I still can't forgive myself for some things I said to loved ones while under the influence.

JoyinVirginia said...

OT Olympics. Thursday am I watched the mens skating short program live with Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinsky. And that dramatic withdrawal from the competition happened, and Johnny and Tara were reacting live, figuring out what was happening live, and sharing that with viewers. In Thursday night the edited broadcast of the skating was shown, with Scott Hamilton announcing as if it was live, BUT IT WASN'T! Dh pointed out that the evening announcers, who are never shown on cameras, could be in the USA, giving their commentary by phone for all we know!

MamaKnows said...

NJAY - Beautiful heartfelt post. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.

Jeanne said...

The school the Gosselins attend is not exempt from PA educational attendance requirements.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/nonpublic_and_private_school_services/7418/faq's/509363

It says that they must provide the 180 days of school although there is a waiver form if they can prove they provided the 900/990 hours of education in less days. While the G kids are gone from home longer than normal, that is due to the bus ride not a long academic day.

I think when K said they didn't have to make up the time, she was either thinking of the built in make-up days or refusing to think at all. Your choice.

Ex Nurse said...

Over the past 7 years of dealing with my husband's addiction, I see addiction as a spiritual disease. I have buckets of empathy for everyone who is touched by this disease, because addiction destroys families for generations.

My anger and grief over my separation from my husband has given way to acceptance. Our daughter-in-law's due date is today, and we are both working very hard in our separate recovery programs. Somehow, we have ended up on the same page--with forgiveness love for our family, regardless of the outcome of our marriage. We will always be connected through our children, and for their sake, as well as our future grandchildren, we are setting aside our resentments and score keeping because it is just too exhausting to continue the negative, unhealthy dynamics.

He has been sober for a year now, and it has been extremely challenging for him to admit the extent of the harm to me and our children. I have enormous respect for the positive changes he continues to make, and I am very grateful that our relationship has been friendly and stable--not that this an easy task! Far from it, however, the anger and resentment is like poison, and it is a relief to let it go, and begin to heal. My husband and I are extremely flawed and have a long way to go. Bringing a new soul into our lives has been transformative and has renewed my own spiritual and emotional state.

Thank you to those who have spoken up about their own struggles--it takes enormous courage to get honest.

For people who think that addiction is a choice, I suggest attending an open AA speakers meeting. It may amaze you to hear the inspiration, humility and the fellowship that exist in the recovery community.

Ex Nurse said...

Watching CT--a compatibility assessment showed that Jon and Liz's common attributes are smoking and drinking, and that neither of them are family focused. Jon seems to be suffering a post-TLC flashback.

Millicent said...

My thanks to NJGal51 and Lalalalala for helping me remember that PSH was in Capote. Now I need to rewatch In Cold Blood - because doesn't Capote show up in that film too - to talk to the killers once captured? I wonder what actor that was?



Millicent said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 3

Kate's need for anger.

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She is frequently angry and hateful. I wonder if those feelings make her feel good, like a rush, like an addict...
******

My thought was that she seems unable to feel many normal emotions. It's like she got a double or triple helping of spite, anger, bitterness and impatience; and got none when it came time to receive "love' "caring" "compassion" "understanding" etc.

Ulysses said...

Sounds like one addiction (food) was traded for another (drugs). Gastric bypass surgery is so wrong. Almost everyone gains it right back or becomes an alcoholic or drug addict. The addiction behaviour is never addressed.

Millicent said...

Njay - thank you for sharing your story of addiction. Yes, certain pain medications can sneak up on you and before you know it, you might find yourself addicted. Had a boss who had an addiction to Vicodin. Oh man, when he was getting clean from that, he was an absolute SOB to deal with and I almost quit several times. I wish you the very best in keeping yourself clean and sober. I know it's hard.

And Remona, again, I certainly find your anger completely understandable. I had a lot of bitterness in my heart toward my ex (for different reasons). With the passage of time, I am glad that bitterness has eased because it was not a good feeling. I hope you and your loved ones won't continue to be yanked around by the addict in your life.

gotyournumberKate said...

OT My upstairs television died the other day so I've been watching Netflix. I watched a couple J&K+8 shows that I haven't seen. I've noticed this before when I saw clips of these moments but haven't mentioned it. The Greatest Moments show the clips where Leah says "Hannah pooped in Hannah's unnerwears" and Alexis repeating "Hi Mommy" when Kate comes home from her tummy tuck. I really don't see these as cute. I actually see fear in those children's eyes when they are saying these things especially the one with Alexis. I'd be interested to see what others reactions are to this and if they can see the fear that I see.

FlimsyFlamsy said...

On a non-TFW note...Ex Nurse, I wanted to wish you luck with the new grandbaby. Hope weather won't interfere with his/her arrival. Blessing to all of you!

Anonymous said...

JoyinVirginia said... 18
The dh and I were just talking about how my mom used to say everything came in three s, taking about people dying. So just coincidence that we have lost Sid Caesar, Shirley Temple, and now ralph Waite.

8888888888888888888888888888888

I was wondering the same thing. Always seems to be in 3s.

PJ

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Per Google:

In Cold Blood, 1967 cast:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061809/fullcredits

In Cold Blood, TV movie cast:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116619/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

TLC stinks said...

Kate is the one who has instilled "trust issues" for her kids with their friends. This will continue to be an issue for them as adults. This woman has done everything to screw up those kids and project her issues onto them. Their normal is "her normal". Those kids will have a difficult life as adults with their significant others.

Bitchy Pants said...

Millicent -- you got me wondering about Capote appearing in "In Cold Blood" too, so I went on IMDB and looked it up. Neither the original movie nor the TV remake list the character of Capote. IMDB isn't always 100% accurate, but they're usually pretty close, so it's fairly safe to assume that the character of Capote doesn't appear in either one. It's got me curious too, though, and it's been a long time since I watched either version, so I guess I'll check my library to see if either are available, or try to track it down in streaming.

The Empress Was Stripped Bare-Nekkid said...

I know this won't be a popular opinion among those who've defended Jon as being the better parent. It may in fact be true that he's the more loving of the two. But I've watched long snippets of all the CT shows so far, and NOTHING of what I've seen so far from Jon in no way convinces me that he's a role model for his kids.

He seems weak, physically and emotionally, and prone to addictive behaviors (smoking, drinking, abusive women…). And while he may be emotionally available for his kids, he's emotionally unstable.

Last night was so revealing…I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Tucking himself into a ball, whinging about being "set up," and insisting -- like a little boy having a tantrum --that he was going to "call his manager" when he was confronted with the results of that compatibility test. What did he have in common? Drinking and smoking. No way can you build a long-term relationship on that. Don't believe the results? Prove to us otherwise! But don't pull out the victim card and accuse the producers of setting you up, and simultaneously throw shade on TLC. Hear the tinkling glass? That's your manhood, Jon, flying out the window.

And there was Liz, yanking her hoodie over her head like a turtle... withdrawing from the truth of things, withholding from Jon and everyone else who tried to get them to see the truths of their relationship.

Jon said early on in CT that the differences between Liz and TFW were "night and day"--that they were like "apples and oranges" and couldn't be compared to one another. But from what I've seen on the show, I'd have to disagree with that assessment. Sure, there are superficial differences (rough-hewn vs plastic veneer); but at the core, they have a good number of traits in common. And guess what? You're still That Guy, for better and worse.

People rarely change, it's said, and Jon's provided us many examples of that. I don't see any consistent evidence that he's stepping into the shoes of a strong, self-confident and self-reliant man. But dammit, I'm still rooting for him, even when he's not pulling for himself. Maybe things will turn around by the final episode, who knows? I hold out hope, and wish him well. For his kids' sake, as well as his own.

Tucker's Mom said...

My anger and grief over my separation from my husband has given way to acceptance. Our daughter-in-law's due date is today, and we are both working very hard in our separate recovery programs. Somehow, we have ended up on the same page--with forgiveness love for our family, regardless of the outcome of our marriage. We will always be connected through our children, and for their sake, as well as our future grandchildren, we are setting aside our resentments and score keeping because it is just too exhausting to continue the negative, unhealthy dynamics.
******
Ex-Nurse, this is so profound and moving- top of Maslow's triangle kind of stuff. You are evolving in ways that we all should strive to be.
Meagler, I hope the tests are favorable for your kidlet.
lukebandit- you are a SURVIVOR!

Formerly Duped said...

Happy Valentine's Day to everyone and a special wish for happiness and health to all those with pressing personal issues.

Funny TFW did not post her usual heart-shaped food or gifts around the table...or maybe she's still in bed.

CT this week sounds terrible!

TJ said...

Ya Jon doesn't seem to have it together I was really wishing he did...can only hope for the best for those kids.....

Michelle said...

I'm also really disappointed by Jon's words and actions last night. Clearly Jon and Liz have pretty serious doubts about their relationship. If you had true confidence in your relationship, being told you're unlikely to form a successful long term relationship by a computer wouldn't send you off the deep end. Their overreaction was embarrassing to watch.

And I'm sorry, but I read a comment on Television Without Pity a couple of weeks ago that sums up Liz perfectly every time she's on screen. A person posted that when they see Liz, they hear the voice of The Lorax saying: "That's a woman!". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAvaIRt6kuk

I'm really trying to keep an open mind about Liz, but between the language, general attitude, appearance, it's getting hard to see the positives. Doesn't sound like her co-stars on Couples Therapy are seeing them either which leads me to believe they weren't left on the cutting room floor.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I haven't seen it yet but I remember from the previews Whitney and Sada I think telling Jon they didn't like Liz. I've seen enough of that couple to really put a lot of weight into their take on things. And they were with them all the time not just in the 45 minutes of edited footage we saw. No one in love likes to be told you are not right for each other. Ever try to tell a sister, or daughter, or friend that their boyfriend/girlfriend is all wrong for them? The reaction is usually fireworks. That said, just because you may have dysfunctional romantic relationships doesn't mean you're a bad parent. The two are not one and the same. Kate has no dysfunction in romantic relationships--she has no romantic relationship at all--but I think she's a terrible mother. We've seen dozens of hours of footage of Jon parenting his children to give us a fair idea how he parents and the kind of father he is.

Shirley Temple was a legend for many, but Philip Seymour Hoffman was just as much a legend for me if not more. Charlie Wilson's War, The Ides of March and Moneyball are some of my favorites of his characters. There are so many more. It depends on what you watch I think. I haven't seen a Shirley Temple film since I was 12. It's a nice childhood memory but I've been far more moved by Hoffman's loyalty speech in the Ides of March than I ever was by Heidi. I also found him to be a pretty stand up guy in interviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5LHALGus5Q

I haven't seen Capote since it came out but I have In Cold Blood on my kindle app. I plan to read that in the next couple weeks then rent Capote.

Kate is a twit said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 41
I haven't seen it yet but I remember from the previews Whitney and Sada I think telling Jon they didn't like Liz.
-----------------------------

I don't think that Sada and Whitney don't like Liz, I think they just don't like the way she treats Jon. Here is a clip of the 3 of them hanging out and goofing off with each other. I don't think they would do that if they didn't like her.

http://www.vh1.com/video/misc/1003125/liz-sada-and-whitney-decide-to-let-loose.jhtml#id=1722199

I, too, didn't care for how Jon acted regarding the compatibility test. I think he way overreacted. Whether it was for drama or not, I don't know, but he came across as being very whiny and insecure.

Here is Dr. Jenn's blog about the episode:

http://blog.vh1.com/2014-02-13/dr-jenn-on-couples-therapy-episode-7-crumbs-of-love/

Here are 2 excerpts:

What did you think about how Liz and Jon handled their “incompatible” results in the compatibility exercise?

I think it’s never fun to hear negative news about your relationship, but I think the reaction was disproportionate to the information which, to me, meant it struck a nerve somewhere. For Jon, at least, that meant it he felt that something was being created to manipulate in some way, which was not at all the case, it was just supposed to be a fun exercise on compatibility.

At the end of the episode when Whitney and Sada and Taylor and John all offered their advice to Jon about how poorly Liz treats him, do you encourage that in this setting since they’re all living together, or would you have preferred they wait until they’re in group with you so you can moderate their comments so things don’t get out of control?

Look, if things had gotten out of control then one of my counselors would have put a stop to it, but part of the magic of the group experience is getting feedback from the other group members, and you have this unique experience where you live with nine other people and you have this experience where there are people observing you and your relationship and you develop very honest relationships where you learn to give each other feedback. That’s part of the process, actually a very important part of the process. I think that their intentions with Jon were not to be mean or alienate Liz but to empower him. This group genuinely cares for each other and as a result of being on Couples Therapy, these six actually formed a really close bond.

Regarding Ghostface, Kelsey, and Latrice--I was glad to see that both Kelsey and Latrice dumped him.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...



I don't think that Sada and Whitney don't like Liz, I think they just don't like the way she treats Jon.


&&&

Well whatever. Splitting hairs. I put a lot of weight in what they say about him. Nice comments from Dr. Jenn, it's clear that some of the have bonded very tightly, and that's nic

Mel said...

I'm also really disappointed by Jon's words and actions last night.
Yeah. Sadly. I'm not seeing the person I was hoping that he was becoming.

I don't see any consistent evidence that he's stepping into the shoes of a strong, self-confident and self-reliant man.

Not last night anyway. Actually, not on this show at all.

He seems weak, physically and emotionally, and prone to addictive behaviors (smoking, drinking, abusive women…). And while he may be emotionally available for his kids, he's emotionally unstable.

Agree that he is the better parent, the only parent available emotionally to the kids. But also agree that he seems emotionally unstable. You never know what you're gonna get with him.
Just like with TFW, albeit in a different way. You never know what you're gonna get with her either.

But dammit, I'm still rooting for him, even when he's not pulling for himself.

Yep.

I'm really trying to keep an open mind about Liz, but between the language, general attitude, appearance, it's getting hard to see the positives.

I really, really wanted to like Liz. But I don't. I can see where the twins might not want to be exposed to her.

I have to say that I have never seen Jon & Liz as compatible. As good hearted as Liz may be, and as much as Jon is a better parent than TFW, I just don't see Jon & Liz as a compatible couple.

The Greatest Moments show the clips where Leah says "Hannah pooped in Hannah's unnerwears" and Alexis repeating "Hi Mommy" when Kate comes home from her tummy tuck. I really don't see these as cute. I actually see fear in those children's eyes when they are saying these things especially the one with Alexis.

That's how I always took it, too. I didn't see cute. I saw anxiety/fear. As in, omg, she's not gonna freak, is she? Quick! I'll say hi and deflect her!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Just like with TFW, albeit in a different way. You never know what you're gonna get with her either.

&&&

Yes. With all due respect to Jon, he ended up with someone like Kate. Even in the early days she still had some pretty big shades of who she is now. She came this way. Fame probably made it worse, but she didn't start out angelic either. A man who sort of knew his own mind and had everything in order just wouldn't have ended up with her. I mean I think that's evident in that today in 2014 she can't get a date. At this age there aren't many men out there who would put up with her, they've long grown up.

She found someone with some issues of his own and capitalized on them. In many ways, she exploited Jon's weaknesses to the max. The difference is he seems open to change and getting help and seems to know at least on some level there are things he could work on.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Did anyone say their overreaction might have been because deep down they knew there was at least some truth to the test? That maybe deep down they both know there are some compatibility issues, but that they've been refusing to face them. I think opposites can have a very successful relationship, sometimes you compliment each other, but you may have to work harder at it. There's a lot of research about it that suggests that relationships almost always fare better when you have more things in common than you don't. I think they need to look at the big picture. Do they share the same values? Do they have the same or similar ideas about parenting? About friends and family and God? Do they have the same work ethic, play ethic?

If those are missing, it will be an uphill battle. I don't think whether he likes vanilla and she likes chocolate ice cream matters so much as the big values things.

I think that's where Jon and Kate failed so epically is they had such different values and approaches to life. Parenting was a huge one and that was evidence since they were tiny babies. They were polar opposites. He saw parenting as getting in there with the kids down at their level interacting. She saw parenting as the STUFF she prepares and gets for them, the meals, money, etc. She did not value the interaction, actually being a mommy or daddy.

NJGal51 said...

Millicent - Maybe you're thinking about the movie Infamous? That was about TC and I believe the he met with the killer(s) in that one. It came out around 2006.

Ex Nurse said...

Tucker's mom said,,,
Ex-Nurse, this is so profound and moving- top of Maslow's triangle kind of stuff. You are evolving in ways that we all should strive to be.
------------
Thanks....it really is difficult to sustain all of that righteous indignation and hate. I don't know how TFW does it for all these years! I can see a lot of the dynamics in my son's marriage as my marriage--as does my husband. I think that family scripts are so hard to change--even with full awareness, like Njay said. I look that it this way: I can't change the past, but I can effect the future. My family history is being written, and I get to determine what my part is, and what my legacy will be. Same goes for my husband. When I think about new souls coming into our lives, I feel that I am making generational decisions in how I cope with challenges and disappointments. It is a powerful motivator to let go of the small stuff, and, when it comes to my husbands decisions and behaviors, I practice "live and let live". The funny thing is, I think that the change in my attitude has removed a lot of the justification and excuses for his behavior. Since I am no longer helpfully pointing out his flaws for him, and telling him what to do, he no longer gets to use that as an excuse.

Remona, I am so sorry for your situation, and I understand your frustration and anger. It is so challenging to relate to someone who is using. I hope that you can find some peace for yourself and your children.



Ex Nurse said...

Flimsy Flamsy--
Thank you. We are in seattle, so no snow here? Just rain.

The Empress Was Stripped Bare-Nekkid said...

Opposites can and do attract. But until they're whole, in and of themselves, it seems to me unlikely that Jon & Liz can form a strong, enduring relationship. That starts, of course, with each person being able to acknowledge their relative weaknesses and strengths, as individuals and as a couple. Not tucking into a fetal position, not hiding in a hoodie. Those are J & L's coping mechanisms, I see that, but they don't serve the greater good.

Bitchy Pants said...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think TFMJG retarded Jon's growth emotionally. He was barely 20 when she latched on to him. Most of us, at 20, are still becoming whatever we will be as adults. Yes, I know that some 20 year olds are very focused and know exactly who they are and what they want out of life, but most of us don't. I think Jon was a bit spoiled, a bit indulged, and, yes, somewhat immature when TFMJG sank her claws in. That's what attracted her to him -- that and his father's money. She proceeded to shape him into who SHE wanted him to be, not who he really is. I think he's still struggling to find himself and to grow into the person he should and could be. It's hard work, but at least he recognizes that he needs to do it and he is trying. I don't think we'll ever see the person Jon was meant to be. I think TFMJG killed that person for all time, but at least he's TRYING to become someone worthy of his 8 kids. He may never get there to our satisfaction, but I give him credit for recognizing that he needs to change and making the attempt. Unlike his toxic ex, who thinks she is the epitome of perfection and that it is everyone else who needs to change. Flame suit on.

Dwindle said...

Mel said... 44

The Greatest Moments show the clips where Leah says "Hannah pooped in Hannah's unnerwears" and Alexis repeating "Hi Mommy" when Kate comes home from her tummy tuck. I really don't see these as cute. I actually see fear in those children's eyes when they are saying these things especially the one with Alexis.

That's how I always took it, too. I didn't see cute. I saw anxiety/fear. As in, omg, she's not gonna freak, is she? Quick! I'll say hi and deflect her!

44444444444444444

I know I have probably said this before, so please forgive me for repeating myself, but I always saw Alexis' reaction as "Oh. It's you. I thought you were gone. But you're back. Here comes the pain again, you are the one who hurts me." She never reached for her mother at all, didnt smile, certainly didnt screech, scream, squeal, or shriek when she saw her mother. She was sizing her up. "Here you come, how mad are you this time?"

And when Leah says that about the pooping, her reaction to me said "Yepper, there is gonna be a beatin' but it wont be me this time."

Anonymous said...

Kate has trust issues, al right. She doesn't trust that her kids will not talk about what is going on at home. LOL!

Vanessa said...

She was sizing her up. "Here you come, how mad are you this time?"
***********************************************************************
Yup. "Which mommy is it going to be? I'm quite nervous and anxious because I don't know what your mood is at this moment"

And Leah, well there was just waaaayyy too much commotion and interest going on. They alllll KNEW something was going to down, just weren't sure if they should run or be witness to it.

PJ's momma said...

I loved PSH's work. He was great in Cold Mountain. His description of being constipated, and later, his hallelujah moment, were so funny! Unfortunately, I could not find those clips online, but I did find this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeCRY2mdih8

SARA said...

Jon came off like a big baby. He resorts back to his "show" day tactics. I doubt he has much if any pull at all. Jon and Liz's behavior is tacky. I think they love their kids, but neither is bringing much to the table.

On a different note, I work in health care, and being honest, I have a very hard time dealing with self inflicted illness/problems, such as obesity and drug/alcohol. These problems are SUCH a drain on providers and staff, not only physically these pts. are so hard to care for, but emotionally they demand time that should be given else where. That said, gastric byspass surgery is a quick fix to a bigger problem that brings a slew of other problems. I would never advise gastric surgery. Put the food down, get counseling and get moving.

SARA

Dwindle said...

Bitchy Pants, I agree with you about Jon. Whatever maturity and sense of self he had at age 20 when he threw himself at TFW's mercy, disappeared under her iron grip and her constant need to lash out at him and blame him for every pimple on her butt. I wish, for the sake of the kids, that he had emerged with wisdom and maturity, but it looks as if he is still a work in progress.

Just like she has done to the children, whatever individual personality, goals, drives, dreams he had in the beginning, she destroyed in order to control him and have him do her bidding 100%. "*Snap Snap* Jon, your words! Express the opinion that I decided you have! "

Ex Nurse said...

Some comments on CT:
I absolutely love Kelsey. She is a very sweet and genuine person--I would watch any show she was on! I'm think that participating in this show may have spared her years of wasting her love on complete jerks. I wonder if Kelsey and Jon are compatible? Now, that would be a great ending for the show!

So, according to Jon, the 'Conspiracy Theory' is that the script of the show is to break them out. So, if that is true, maybe there is absolutely nothing wrong with Ghost, too. He is just being edited to look like a villain?

The people who analyzed the compatibility test were ridiculous--one actual said that smoking and drinking behaviors are 'very important'. That, and the fact that they both feel constrained by their families,, seems to be the only shared interest/trait. There was a disclaimer that the test don't measure sexual attraction and feelings.

Jon threatened to call his management, to get him off the show.jon said that the reason he quit TV is because of bS like this. Wait, I thought he quit TV to protect his children., right? They must have edited that part out, I guess.

Dutch Tulip said...

Bitchy Pants said... 51
I totally agree so I'm standing next to you with a bucket of water!

Formerly Duped said...

Sara, I also worked with gastric bypass patients years ago when it involved a longer hospital stay. Most of them had tried various diets, exercise plans and counseling. But I agree, many were non-complaint and would end up back in the ER having eaten a whole chicken for example, as food is an addiction for many of them. They were also very physically difficult ( moving them, tending to their needs as they recovered-) and some revealed demanding child-like behavior post-op. Nowadays it's done by laparoscope so we don't see the 'hospitalization or patient- dependent role ' as much. For many it's successful and also controls their diabetes, cholesterol etc .But I agree it's a quick fix that sometimes backfires.

lukebandit said...

I went to youtube and watched Bad Moments season 4? It really was disgusting how TCFW treated and talked to Jon. She talked about the boys how disgustingly dirty they all were all the time. Icky and disgusting. The way she was talking about the boys it made me think, what is she really saying, wishing they had never been born? That all of the sextuplets should of been all girls???

She is deeply, deeply mentally disturbed. My stomach was tightening up and I was getting anxious just watching it. It is repulsive. I didn't watch when the queen came back from the tuck and Alexis in the crib. But I remember watching it a long time ago. The poster is right. I remember Alexis was nervous and walking on eggshells trying to comprehend this was mommy because she had her makeover? I remember TCFW lowering her voice and talking really smooth to her and gently rubbing her face.

Have to because of the cameras, that she is the loving mom of 8 and does it all. There is no telling the depth of abuse that thing dosed out to those babies on a daily basis. I really wanted to reach in and pop her mouth when she kept on about the boys and when she said it would relieve 95 percent of her frustration if Jon would just ask her if there is anything that he could do to help her. There are no words.

Then she is out in the driveway and she hollers at Jon to bring the portable potty, then he walks all the way back to almost inside the house and then she hollers again, Jon bring the flip flops, he brings them. Then he stands there and says, I am going to stand here until she leaves the driveway, because she will forget something else.

Then I think that made TCFW mad because she got the clogs and threw them out the window and said, girl tup wanted her to THROW them out the window. And Jon reached down to pick them up and she said, oh, you don't have to pick them up. Can you imagine the horror and heck to pay if she came back and saw them sitting in the driveway???

Jon walks back toward the house, head hanging down, defeated and said, The Queen Has Left The Building!

How Jon escaped getting taken away in a straight jacket with 2 men in white lab coats astounds me.

Njay, Ex-Nurse, Millicent, thinking of you and praying.

I am really familiar with the It Comes In Three's. Has happened many many times in my life. Just the day before Ralph Waite died, I thought I wished there would be a Waltons reunion while the core family was still together. Momma, Daddy, John Boy, Mary Ellen, Jason, Ben, Erin, Jim Bob, Elizabeth. The reason why I thought of it was because Michael Learned came out of retirement because of the Waltons. I can't believe Ralph Waite was 85 years old. Michael Learned will be 75 in April! Richard Thomas will be 63 in June.

NJGal51 said...


Bitchy Pants @51 - I agree completely.

Meager - thought and prayers going out to you and the kidlet for good results.

Always good to see you Dwindle.

Dutch Tulip said...

If you want to know how much fun drug addiction is I recommend the movie Requiem for a dream.
Oh and we all ofcourse should have listened to Nancy Reagan's advice: just say no!

Kate is a twit said...

Just the day before Ralph Waite died, I thought I wished there would be a Waltons reunion while the core family was still together
=================

They did have a cast reunion last October. You can watch a clip of it here.

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/waltons-cast-reunites-thanks-entertainment-weekly-112114642--abc-news-tv.html

Rhymes with Witch said...

Dutch Tulip said 59
Bitchy Pants said... 51
I totally agree so I'm standing next to you with a bucket of water!

And I'm here with the hose.

Wow said...

SARA said... 56

On a different note, I work in health care, and being honest, I have a very hard time dealing with self inflicted illness/problems, such as obesity and drug/alcohol. These problems are SUCH a drain on providers and staff, not only physically these pts. are so hard to care for, but emotionally they demand time that should be given else where. That said, gastric byspass surgery is a quick fix to a bigger problem that brings a slew of other problems. I would never advise gastric surgery. Put the food down, get counseling and get moving.
***************
As a health care professional, I would expect you to recognize that not all obesity can be solved by "putting the food down, getting counseling and getting moving."

Your lack of compassion exemplifies the attitude of many health care professionals I've encountered in dealing with several family illnesses. It is your job to handle ALL patients respectfully, not to pick and choose which ones you think are deserving of your care.

CC said...

I find the drug/alcohol addiction issue being discussed interesting. Ill admit I've never smoked or did drugs and never had anyone with a true addiction in my life.

I understand the people that were brought up in a time when the dangers and addictions of cigarettes weren't understood. But more recently adults that start smoking or using drugs recreationally have no excuse. They are responsible for their choices.

As for the ones that start as children and become addicted, that's a tough issue. Children are just stupid or think they can do things and control it. As much as they are taught the dangers and may even see the dangers from personal experience with family, they still make poor choices. Some, not all. I'm not sure why that is. Why do some kids give in to peer pressure and others don't? Why can some kids make responsible choices and some can't? I think upbringing has a lot to do with it, but not always. I could just be their inherent personality I guess. But it's scientifically proven that children don't have the reasoning capability yet, until they are about 25-years-old when that part of their brain is fully developed. But are they ever going to be held responsible for their choices once they are adults?

I also think there's a huge difference between a person getting lung cancer from years of smoking vs.a person getting it and never having smoked. Smokers know the dangers if they don't quit. It's not easy to quit but it's a choice. You CAN quit. It just takes work and dedication. Same with losing weight. (Unless it's a side effect of a disease.) It takes work and dedication. You have to develop healthy eating habits and exercise.

All that being said, I just wonder what the ramifications will be if we start seeing addiction as a "disease." I don't know. What will it mean? Will it take away responsibility? What about a person who is arrested for DUI? What if they kill someone driving under the influence? If they have a "disease" wouldn't that take away the personal responsibility factor?

As it is now we hold drunk or drugged drivers personally responsible for their choice to drive impaired. Even though in most cases they are too drunk or drugged to even make a responsible choice, we still hold them responsible. Just makes me wonder what will happen to that personal responsibility factor.

Tuckers Mom said...

GotyournumberKate-

I realized Alexis's fearful reaction to Kate's return after reading Robert's book and rewatched it.

Not what you'd expect to see from toddlers.

Millicent said...

Jon threatened to call his management, to get him off the show.jon said that the reason he quit TV is because of bS like this. Wait, I thought he quit TV to protect his children., right? They must have edited that part out, I guess.
*****
Well, it's not unlikely that there could have been several reasons why Jon wanted to quit filming J&K+8. I do hope the primary one was because he didn't want their divorce and the children's distress over the divorce to be fodder for public "entertainment." But I would think that the fact that producers and TV execs can exert so much control over you and your life while you are under contract would have to come in a close second.

If for nothing else, all this keeps reminding me to be grateful that I am am a mediocre person living a boring and untelevised private life!

Anonymous said...

Empress #36, you must be in my head because you said everything I was thinking about CT last night only you said it better. I also don't care for Liz at all. Wish Jon would find himself before trying to be a couple with just any woman. Thanks for saying things I think!


-LIN-

getofftwitter said...

. Kate has trust issues, cause remember TLC handled all CA, agreements, took care of any BS, did damage control, probably paid off people to stay silent, or fixed things. Now there is no TLC, people don't have to sign a CA, and Kate can't force them too, nor can she keep people from talking(if they choose), Kate can't trust her own kids to stay silent, they talk to dad. If she tells one of her kids friends say the twins,or the younger kids friends : if you want to come over for a "playdate", you have to sign a CA, perhaps the parents told Kate where to stick the CA, thus her kids loose friends, and seeing as how much the twins have learned to play the "Kate game of life" the twins know how to play mom to get what they want. That is why Kate said they work it out. Twins know how bad mom wants to be on TV, so this is something they can use to their advantage. In dealing with friends, sports, activities, clothes, pets etc. Bad for Kate, cause those girls are only going to get worse, as they get older, that is why they probably don't see dad, cause Jon, does not put up with any of it, or be manipulated by any of the kids. Kate will let them get away with it, in trade for TV fame, and her need to have the kids. Her recent post: she said something to the effect: she can not live with out the kids. Even if one left the compound to live with dad, she would make a big thing about it, cause in her mind, the twins are a set, the tups are a set, Kate is a perfectionist, everything has to be perfect. You do not break up sets, nor do you buy incomplete sets. It's all or nothing. This would also explain, why none of the tups as we know are not in any sports or interests. In kates thinking they were born together, they do everything together, marry together, die together. Never treats them as individuals, who have different tastes, like different sports, or have different interests, no, they have to do everything together. That is so wrong.

Millicent said...

Sara said:
Put the food down, get counseling and get moving.
************
Sara - I'm sure you don't mean to be offensive, but your attitude is one of the reasons I used to have a hard time even going to see my doctor regularly. The judgmental face - don't think that I don't know what you're thinking of me when you make it. If you are a health care professional, then I hope you will make an effort not to be so judgmental. There are many reasons for weight gain, and having someone sneer at you and say "put down the food and get counseling" is not helpful.

For many years, I simply didn't go in to see my doctor regularly. Then I changed to a different health care provider, got assigned a D.O., and he was absolutely wonderful. He took the time to try to understand why I resisted making appointments. We discussed my health issues in a non-judgmental fashion. He never told me I was a drain on the system. And for your information, I am overweight, but I am in fairly good health. I know it defies the stereotype that anyone who is overweight must have a plethora of medical problems that result in costing taxpayers millions of dollars. But I don't. My cholesterol and blood sugars are within normal limits. I walk 3 times a week. I eat healthy, homemade food most of the time and limit my sweets. What does not help is someone making a snap judgment based on their prejudice against people who are overweight.

From time to time, I run into a medical staff member who treats me with less than acceptable courtesy. I used to take it. Now I report it to my doctor and often follow up with a letter. All patients deserve to be treated with respect and courtesy, regardless of your opinion of their health situation.

CC said...

Jon wanted to quit filming at the end of season 4. They discussed it on the couch. Jon said he wanted to quit filming, Kate said she didn't. Jon was tired of TLC controlling his family and his life. Jon started rebelling against filming right after that. TLC wanted to film a fake marriage. TLC wanted them to pretend they were still together. That's the BS that Jon was referring to. Who knows what other BS TLC tried to pull with him and his family? At that point Jon stopped caring what TLC wanted him to do. He would sit on the couch during his interviews and his attitude was Freak you TLC.

Jon later completely stopped the filming during the divorce. Kate was still filming Kate Plus 8. Then Jon stopped TLC from filming his children.

I think it was a combination of things for Jon. I think there were multiple factors as to why Jon stopped filming.

I think once Jon realized he could stand up for himself to TLC he decided he could stand up to Kate and TLC both. It was one thing for Jon to stop filming himself at first but Kate also had custody of his children and she was allowing them to be filmed.

CC said...

I don't know what to think about Couples Therapy. After watching Jon and Kate Plus 8 and seeing how TLC tried to portray them as still happily married, renewing their vows, etc and covering up that Jon was living in the garage apartment, I don't believe reality TV is reality.

I believe Couples Therapy needs drama and I think Jon knows that and with his experience with reality tv he questioned whether or not he was set up. I don't like how he handled it though.

I do question Couples Therapy. The doctor seemed so insulted Jon questioned their authenticity, yet Teen Duck Lips was supposed to be on the show with a fake boyfriend and he provided the emails from Couples Therapy to the media showing they were aware of their fake relationship and still threatened him that he had to show up for filming because he signed a contract.

As for Liz, I'm disappointed in her. She calls Jon a p****y for not standing up to Kate or whomever yet she doesn't want him to stand up to her when she calls him names. I hope this "therapy" has helped him. So far I don't see much "therapy" on this show. I'm not sure the doctor is helping any of them. What is she actually doing for them?

Seems to me Kelsey is a strong woman and she made the decision to dump her boyfriend on her own. The doctor just provided them to all the stage to showcase it all. I'm not impressed by her or the show.

Millicent said...

Bitchy Pants said... 35

Millicent -- you got me wondering about Capote appearing in "In Cold Blood" too, so I went on IMDB and looked it up. Neither the original movie nor the TV remake list the character of Capote. IMDB isn't always 100% accurate, but they're usually pretty close, so it's fairly safe to assume that the character of Capote doesn't appear in either one. It's got me curious too, though, and it's been a long time since I watched either version, so I guess I'll check my library to see if either are available, or try to track it down in streaming.
*****
I think what happened is two different events got merged in my brain :)

I vividly recall reading In Cold Blood years ago and being chilled to the bone. Maybe that was one of the first "true crime" novels I ever read. All I know is that it made quite an impact on me. Years later, I saw PSH playing Truman Capote and (if my memory serves me right), he became fascinated with this event and with at least one of the killers involved, visiting him in prison, etc. So those two things became merged together in my memory bank. Now I need to re-read the book and re-watch Capote!

Millicent said...

Ex Nurse said:
We will always be connected through our children, and for their sake, as well as our future grandchildren, we are setting aside our resentments and score keeping because it is just too exhausting to continue the negative, unhealthy dynamics.
***************
Have been there, done that -- without the component of addiction. But this statement stands out because it's such good advice in general for two people who share children/grandchildren together. I think Jon would be willing to try to let go of resentment and anger, but I don't think Kate is capable nor willing to try to do the same, and the people it hurts the most are the 8 children.

Anonymous said...

(Leslie)
Yep, I too fully agree with #36 assessment of last night's episode. And the only thing I can add to that post is the cursing that both Jon and Liz do is off the charts. Yes, cursing does not make a person bad but extreme, excessive cursing on national TV is bad. Especially when they have 11 small children that will one day be watching them. And I have to think that they must curse at home in the front of the children because of how excessive it is on TV.

Remona Blue said...

Ex Nurse said... 48
''Remona, I am so sorry for your situation, and I understand your frustration and anger. It is so challenging to relate to someone who is using. I hope that you can find some peace for yourself and your children.''
~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you. I have found my peace by loving and caring for the user's abandoned children. As you have discovered, filling my heart with love for the children leaves little room for frustration for the user.

My expressed anger on this blog just came pouring out yesterday since I've not really discussed the problem with 'outsiders'. I got it all out yesterday, and am seeing the children tomorrow, so all is well.

CC said...

Millicent,

Thank you for sharing your experiences and insight with us. I think that people who don't understand obesity just don't, well... understand.

I thought that since the original poster mentioned "counseling" and food control and exercise as ways to deal with obesity I thought that covered all. Aside from a medical reason for obesity that might not be curable, what else is there aside from diet, exercise and counseling? I'm seriously inquiring, not mocking.

I do believe some people are more prone to being overweight through heredity. Although I also go back and forth and wonder if it's the bad eating habits that are "inherited" or if it's genetic. I know there are also thyroid issues, which in my understanding can be controlled with medication. Then again, my understanding is limited.

I can only imagine, actually I can't even imagine, how difficult it is to deal with obesity and the stereotypes that go along with it. While I think a lot of obesity is due to laziness and poor eating habits, I also think there are a lot of other reasons that don't include laziness.

I know I mentioned work and dedication in my prior post in order to lose weight. I didn't mean those with underlying medical reasons. I really was just referring to those that don't exercise or eat right. I didn't mean to make it sound so simple. I didn't mean to make it sound so easy when there are OTHER factors involved.

Anonymous said...

(Leslie)
Thanks for posting the Walton clip reunion. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Who was the person on the right of the screen in the back with the glasses?

CC said...

One thing I like about this blog, among other things, is all the various opinions, even the disagreements, about Kate, Jon, Liz and even the off-topics. Just proves we aren't sheeple!

Formerly Duped said...

Re: gastric bypass. I hope I did not offend anyone..just saying THAT procedure, while it helps many, is not for everyone if there are underlying issues. Every patient should be treated with respect. I do find drs who are trying to get as many people as possible to have this surgery without exploring their past. The patients are supposed to undergo a psychological clearance, but many drs waive this. It is a major procedure, and I think people see it as an easy quick fix but it is not something to enter into lightly, that's all.

Kelly said...

Wow re Sara's comments: WORD! Compassion and hope are just as important in patient care. I usually get awesome patient reviews and it's not because I'm Super Nurse. It's because my patients know I care and have empathy.

Ex Nurse, you really are so inspirational. I love reading your posts. Enjoy that new grand bebee. :)

Anonymous said...

(Leslie)
The very fact that Dr. Jen had a "fun" compatibility couple test on the show was ridiculous. These couples signed up as couples who already have established relationships and they are there to strengthen their relationships not to take "fun" tests to see if they are even compatible. The ideal of giving this test to these couples was wrong. There is nothing "fun" about not finding out on national TV that you are not even compatible with the person you already love. It should be through talk therapy that the couple comes to a realization that they are not compatible. Instead they were shown on a screen the words incompatible. And then their Dr. follows up with, "Well it was just for fun".

The test was completely out of place. But having said that Jon's reaction was overdone but at least he realized he overacted and apologized for it.

lukebandit said...

Millicent...72

From time to time, I run into a medical staff member who treats me with less than acceptable courtesy. I used to take it. Now I report it to my doctor and often follow up with a letter. All patients deserve to be treated with respect and courtesy, regardless of your opinion of their health situation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, Yes! Report every single incident. I had to go to the drs. office one day by amb. and we were waiting by the door where the patients go back because patients on gurneys have priority. A nurse came out and barely glanced at me and she turned and started talking to the amb. lady and said, Can she sign for herself? I was like oh, man!

I said, Yes, I can sign for myself. I am actually a college graduate with honors. Is that not good enough?

Another time, in a different office, the older secretary asked the amb. guy if I could sign my name. I said like an old woman, Yes I CAN!!! lol

Call Me Crazy said...

SARA said... 56

On a different note, I work in health care, and being honest, I have a very hard time dealing with self inflicted illness/problems, such as obesity and drug/alcohol. These problems are SUCH a drain on providers and staff, not only physically these pts. are so hard to care for, but emotionally they demand time that should be given else where.
_______________________

Sara, I respect your honesty, but reading your words makes me very sad. I am sad because so many health care providers seem to forget that their greatest responsibility is to respect their patients, despite whether they think those patients are worthy of that respect or not. Out of respect comes great care.

I imagine it can be extremely difficult and frustrating to care for people who may be terribly belligerent, even arrogant, or who seemingly do not want to help themselves. You talk about "self inflicted illness/problems," but there is no way you can know what has contributed to those problems. Are there people who are difficult and nasty and hard to empathize/sympathize with? Of course. But please consider this: those may be the very people who need your compassion the most. They may be experiencing enough self hate on their own that dealing with judgmental people only makes them feel worse and want to lash out. As a health care provider, I would hope you would have enough compassion to be aware that there might be a very damaged person behind those behaviors. So their "demand" for time may be even more crucial.

I don't think it is a good thing for any of us to judge who is more worthy of our time and compassion. We all do it to an extent, of course, but I hope you will consider that every life is precious and worth being treated with dignity. You may find that showing compassion to the most damaged among us will be the most rewarding work you do.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters in life is how we treat one another.

Kate is a twit said...

Anonymous said... 80
(Leslie)
Thanks for posting the Walton clip reunion. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Who was the person on the right of the screen in the back with the glasses?
===============

Leslie-that person is Earl Hammer, Jr., the creator, producer and writer of The Waltons. He is also the author of the book Spencer's Mountain upon which the series is based. He was also the one who did the voice over narration(as Jon-boy) on the series.

KitK said...

Sara said:
On a different note, I work in health care, and being honest, I have a very hard time dealing with self inflicted illness/problems, such as obesity and drug/alcohol. These problems are SUCH a drain on providers and staff, not only physically these pts. are so hard to care for, but emotionally they demand time that should be given else where.
************
I would submit that the attention, time and care a patient 'demands' should go to the one sitting in front of you, seeking your help.

I am glad you are neither my student nor, certainly, my provider.

KitK said...

Sara said:
On a different note, I work in health care, and being honest, I have a very hard time dealing with self inflicted illness/problems, such as obesity and drug/alcohol. These problems are SUCH a drain on providers and staff, not only physically these pts. are so hard to care for, but emotionally they demand time that should be given else where.
_______________________

Call Me Crazy then said:
Sara, I respect your honesty, but reading your words makes me very sad. I am sad because so many health care providers seem to forget that their greatest responsibility is to respect their patients, despite whether they think those patients are worthy of that respect or not. Out of respect comes great care.
***********
Crazy (ok, you said to call you that -lol), this is sooooooo well said. Thank you.

Venturing oerhaps more OT, but in this vein, I'll share a story of exactly what happens when providers display their judgmental disdain while 'caring' for a patient they deem unworthy.

Eons ago, when I was 22yrs old and away at school with no family nearby, I was taken ill and diagnosed with a serious neuromuscular disease. *While I was in the hospital* for treatment and titration of the medication required, I became toxic on the meds and had to be intubated and put on a respirator (while awake and not sedated - it was an emergency); I was scared out of my mind and thought I was going to die. I was transferred to the ICU and a nurse taking care of me was terribly mean and dismissive of me. I simply could not understand what I had done wrong to have her treat me so roughly. Then I overheard her report to the nurse on the next shift, at the foot of the bed (they obviously thought I was asleep). She didn't even use my name, but referred to me as "the overdose". Yep - somehow she misconstrued the over-medication's toxic effects - drugs I was given by hospital personnel, btw, to treat my new condition - as .......... an overdose. When my physician overheard her, he yelled at her right then and there, saying that regardless of the reason for my "overdose" (the meds were toxic because they gave me too much), that if she couldn't muster a caring attitude then she shouldn't work with patients.

Pretty good sediments all 'round.

(Sorry for derailing - obviously a super-hot button for me)

Millicent said...

CC said:
thought that since the original poster mentioned "counseling" and food control and exercise as ways to deal with obesity I thought that covered all. Aside from a medical reason for obesity that might not be curable, what else is there aside from diet, exercise and counseling? I'm seriously inquiring, not mocking.
**************
I will try to be brief re my own weight history and why I think many people over simply the issue. Up until my early 30's, I was quite slim. I have never been an athlete, but I was active, walking regularly, bike riding, taking exercises classes. I ate a reasonable although not particularly "skinny" diet. And then my metabolism changed. Suddenly, I was gaining weight. I was slightly more sedentary, working all day in an office, but otherwise had made no changes to my diet or exercise regimen. What had worked in the past, suddenly wasn't working. Thus began a series of diets of varying degree of success. Jenny Craig; the grapefruit diet; Atkins; and too many others to count. I subscribed to Prevention magazine and read it cover to cover. I tried this form of exercise and that. And yet, the weight would come back and then some.

By the time I was 35, my weight was hovering around 160. Then I became pregnant and my weight naturally went up during those nine months. I walked every single day, I ate right, my skin glowed, my hair was shiny and bouncy. I was probably in the best health of my life, yet my doctor's mouth would turn down and I could hear the mental "tsk, tsk" every time she weighed me. That's when I began to hate going to the doctor's office.

Then I had my son and that was an overwhelming time of emotional turmoil for me. Happiest I've ever been; most unhappy I've ever been. And the weight kept sneaking on each year. The more I tried, it would seem to backfire and I'd actually gain faster. And the judgmental looks from strangers - what a lovely bonus!

But as time has gone on, I've learned to accept myself first and foremost, just as I am. I have had some counseling and learned that my weight issues probably began in my childhood, because my mother has weight issues of her own. Even though I was on the skinny side, I always felt overweight and I realize that (unintentionally), my mother had a hand in that. It was her own issues that spilled over into her daughter's lives. With that knowledge, with a full acceptance of myself at any size, and with a determination to be around for a long time for my son, I am making slow but steady progress in losing weight, and eating healthy choices. But I will always be an advocate for people dealing with weight issues - it's one of the few prejudices that is still sanctioned by society.

Call Me Crazy said...

KitK said... 89 - Wow. Thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry you had to experience cruelty, especially at a time when you needed kindness the most. Good for the physician who took that nurse to task. I hope she learned an important lesson and appreciated it as a career-defining moment.

Luke's Mom said...

Call Me Crazy said... 86

.....At the end of the day, the only thing that matters in life is how we treat one another.

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO

CALL ME CRAZY, I agree.

And I wish you all a Happy Valentine's Day with the song "Nothing More" by The Alternative Routes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXzlVjU1xs&feature=kp

Their lyrics sum it all up:

"To be humble, to be kind.
It is the giving of the peace in your mind.
To a stranger, To a friend
To give in such a way that has no end.
We are Love
We are One
We are how we treat each other when the day is done."

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

Dwindle said... 52

Mel said... 44

Didn't Kate come back to the house with a totally different hair color on that episode? I think she went quite blonde from mouse brown. I did not see what you saw Dwindle. I saw a young child recognize her mother looking different because of the hair. To me it was a sweet moment and as much as I can't stand Kate, I just don't have any evidence to say this little child was fearful of her mother. Also, Kate was quite often on the road being a star back then and maybe the kids were actually missing her. She could have been gone 6 weeks with the tummy tuck/new hair do. We will only know the truth if these kids write tell-all books one day.

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

Dwindle said... 52

Mel said... 44

Didn't Kate come back to the house with a totally different hair color on that episode? I think she went quite blonde from mouse brown. I did not see what you saw Dwindle. I saw a young child recognize her mother looking different because of the hair. To me it was a sweet moment and as much as I can't stand Kate, I just don't have any evidence to say this little child was fearful of her mother. Also, Kate was quite often on the road being a star back then and maybe the kids were actually missing her. She could have been gone 6 weeks with the tummy tuck/new hair do. We will only know the truth if these kids write tell-all books one day.

prairiemary said...

I also have bad had experiences with nurses who should not be nurses. I got sick(18 years ago this date) with Guillain-Barre syndrome, and spent 15 weeks in the hospital, 6 weeks of them in the I.C.U, totally paralysed, with tubes coming out of me every where, on life support so I could not speak or make any noise at all. Every time there was a shift change if nurses, they and a doctor would sit really close to my bedside. Even though I could hear every word they said, they must not have known I could hear just fine, as they would talk about me being too sick to survive this disease, and to keep me comfortable with morphine. I kind of gave up at that point, then changed my mind and decided to fight for my life, as I had daughters at home who still needed mothering.
All throughout my stay, there was all kinds of verbal abuse that went on, and lots of pain from how rough they touched me when things needed to be done. In the I.C.U, there was 1 female nurse that slapped me on my body, because she was tired and frustrated. I heard her tell another nurse that when she left my side. And another night, there was a male nurse, who punched me hard in my back. He had given me too much laxative, and after the 6th time he had to clean me up, he then punched me in the back, told me to "quit your damn sh*****g, and get to sleep already." And I had no control over it, so I did not deserve that. I have so many incidents that I had to go through, just because I was paralysed and could not speak up, or even write anything down. I have written my 'book' about the entire thing, from start to finish. I thought I was done writing. But then my daughter got cancer, and I spent another 19 months with her in the hospital, so needed to write about her experiences as well. I really want to get it published, but have no money. I do not want to do it for the money, as there would not be that many books sold. Likely even less that tfw has sold. I just want to tell my story, I do not want sympathy, I just think people need to hear what happened in the hospital for me and then for my daughter. Things need to change. And not all nurses should be working as nurses. It would scare me if tfw ever did go back to nursing.
It really ticks me off that she can write a crap book, and people buy it, yet I will likely never get my book published!! I guess this is the only thing I am jellus about!!

Girl From Up North said...

Aside from a medical reason for obesity that might not be curable, what else is there aside from diet, exercise and counseling? I'm seriously inquiring, not mocking.
____________________________

Ok, I just have to throw this in.

I take full responsibility for my weight, which is about 50lbs too much. I am active and healthy, but overweight. Here is the difference between food addiction and other addictions.

You can't stop eating! You wouldn't ask an alcoholic to cut back or drink only certain kinds of booze and expect them to recover would you?

We can all eat better, but for those who really enjoy food (or are addicted if that is the case) eating one bad thing is like falling off the wagon.

It is also demoralizing to have all health concerns chalked up to weight, as often happens. I own my bad choices and live the consequences every day.

TLC stinks said...

Paper Plates, ITA. She spent her total recovery from the tummy tuck at the doc's house and then had a makeover. I think she must have been gone for weeks. The tups were very little and I think it took a few seconds to recognize her.

prairiemary said...

Sorry for so much information. But anyone who has someone in a hospital or nursing home, who has no way to communicate, needs to know these things do happen! And you need to be aware, so you can be sure nothing bad is happening to them while they are alone there. Most abuse happens in the evening hours. A few months after I was better, and could drive and do most things again, an 80+ woman got what I had, and her only family lived 9-10 hours away. So I drove to the hospital I had been in, a couple of hours from my home, and sat with her in the I.C.U for a couple of days. I made certain that no one was hurting her, or causing any sort of abuse. She was also on life support and could not speak. But the eyes show lots of emotions, especially fear. I made darn certain that no one was hurting her before I went back home. I also spoke to the nursing supervisor, and made it plain as day that nothing had better harm this lady. She did end up getting better, and was so happy to finally be able to speak to me, and I was also able to meet her daughters, who were thrilled that I drove up to check on her, every week, until she got better after a few weeks. Caregivers, friends and families need to know what CAN go wrong in hospitals. I am passionate about it!

Amy2 said...

All these stories about difficult times with medical personnel just reinforces my belief that every patient should have a patient advocate. Someone who listens to what the doctors and nurses are saying, watching what is being done and speakis up when something is wrong. An advocate cannot be with the patient 24/7 but they are told things by the patient and see things when they are there.

The flip side is that there are good nurses and doctors. But there are those that should not be in the profession. It's a hard profession physically, mentally and emotionally. And it takes it toll on the medical personnel.

Winsomeone said...

"It is also demoralizing to have all health concerns chalked up to weight, as often happens. I own my bad choices and live the consequences every day."
,
I couldn't agree with you more, plus I also never ever blame my deceased parents for the choices I make either. When did we become a blameless society..no matter what choices we make, it is always not our fault, but someone else's.


Gigi said...

The difference is he seems open to change and getting help and seems to know at least on some level there are things he could work on.
_____________________________________

Ok, but he's been in and out of 'therapy' since they broke up. It's also years later. Enough with the excuses, Jon.

KitK said...

PrairieMary said:
I thought I was done writing. But then my daughter got cancer, and I spent another 19 months with her in the hospital, so needed to write about her experiences as well. I really want to get it published, but have no money. I do not want to do it for the money, as there would not be that many books sold. Likely even less that tfw has sold. I just want to tell my story, I do not want sympathy, I just think people need to hear what happened in the hospital for me and then for my daughter. Things need to change"
*******************

Amen to that. I think it would be a very powerful book if you could collect 'survivor' stories (I have a bunch more of them). Ironic kicker in the pants: when I got so sick, I was in training to become a PA (physician assistant). You can bet my experiences became the foundation with which I conducted my career (which I believe is more akin to a calling).

I wish you peace

Ex Nurse said...

Thanks for the kind words...If I could find peace of mind through the path of anger and rage, I would!

As far as addiction being a disease, there is scientific evidence of brain changes that result from addictive behaviors. Although there may have been a choice to start abusing a substance, it pretty much stops being one once the addiction is established. Addiction interrupts the uptake of neurotransmitters, which is why addiction is progressive over time. The more the brain changes, the more of the substance or behavior is needed just to maintain the feeling of "normalcy".

People often think that just because they have the ability to control their behaviors, that everyone can--that is a matter of laziness or self-destruction. At one time, I believed that--until I saw the changes in my husband when he began drinking excessively, and could not stop. It wasn't until he bottomed out and became serious in his recovery that he was able to stop. He went to rehab a year ago and has not had a drink since then.

What people often don't realize is that sobriety brings a whole new set of problems. Like having to mend relationships and begin to clean up the huge mess that was made. The most difficult thing has been to deal with the feelings and situations that, in the past, was his trigger to drink.

We are separated, and probably will divorce eventually. He is still pretty emotionally unstable and not capable of an adult, loving relationship. It might be that all he can manage is to not drink, hold down a job, have a superficial relationships with our kids and a friendly, cooperative relationship with me. Of course, I hope for more-especially in his relationship to our children, but that is his task, not mine. So, I try to be supportive and focus on myself. I am very relieved that we are relatively stable at this point in time, since I don't wan my son and DIL distracted by our drama. Our family has been through so much, and we are looking forward to sharing a happy event, for a change.

njay said...

An addict or an obese person is a person who's poor choices and bad judgement just happens to be drugs and food. I don't mean that anyone should enable someone who has screwed their's and others lives up because of their choices but, have you ever stopped to think that others behavior or poor choices may have had a lot to do with their choice? Have you taken the time to educate yourself on what causes one to be addicted? You'd be surprised how many addicts I have been in rehab with that the underlying core of their using or not getting better is because of issues in the home.

How many times has it been said that the G8 are going to have so many issues because of Kate's and Jon's poor choices. Ahhh..hey, where did it stem from. So before loosing compassion and being critical, look deep. Did you even try to figure it out together with them? Have you gone to aa with them? Have you even tried therapy with them? Hate the addiction but love the addict.

I mentioned up thread that I fear for the karma of those who lack compassion and are critical. Whether you call Him God or Karma, He will not be mocked and we WILL pay for how we treat others. I have often wondered if my becoming an addict was my reaping of how I felt about my mom's addiction.

Just a little FYI about the "fun" activity Dr. Jen gave the group. TRUST ME, NOTHING in group theropy is just for fun. It's their experience and wisdom of knowing the best way to get people to participate and open up with the least amount of disclosure that that is what you are really doing. And..as we saw with Jon and Liz, it worked.

That's the one cool thing for me. Having gone through it all and am now 10 years in my recovery, I spot things going on in the therapy and even the denial of those going through it, that it is almost text book. The best way to know if someone is using is ask those who have used. They know every HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE aspect and manipulation it takes to play the game and they know who is in denial and who really wants help.

I would like to say one more thing and then, unless someone wants to ask me anything constructive, I will let this be my last post on the subject. If you put it out there that you don't have any tolerance or compassion for those with self inflected illnesses. You are closing the door to them trusting that you care enough to help and you become part of the problem instead of a resource for their healing. Another question, does self inflicted include those with lung and skin cancer? Or the one's that have had broken bones due to sports? What about those who have taken their life because the depression pill the doc, gave them made them more depressed than they were before. And then what about those, like happened to me, had a doctor who, by his education, knows the pills he was given me was addictive. Yet, because he did not want to admit HE SCREWED UP, kept giving me pain pills. I had no clue that the dizziness, hot flashes, legs jerking, nausea and puking was really from withdrawal and not the surgery. I thought that because the pain went away, then surely it was from the operation. I would have never guessed, especially because I tried so hard not to, that I would ever become an addict.

Greedy Gosselins said...

I couldn't agree with you more, plus I also never ever blame my deceased parents for the choices I make either. When did we become a blameless society..no matter what choices we make, it is always not our fault, but someone else's.
_______________________________

Yes! This goes for Jon too. Are we really blaming Kate for Jon's behaviour today? Sure, he was affected by it but making excuses for him isn't helping.

We're leaving first thing in the am for California!! So excited!

angie said...

Did see that episode with the "fun text" and it is enlightening and gives one a reason to think about the areas where, on paper, you are not compatible. Because for people to tell you "you disagree on so many different levels plus you don't get along or have the same goals, etc" is sometimes very hard to do. But that written test showed us what we knew that Jon & this Liz are not at all what they think they appear to be. Not compatible, terrible language, Jon is still delusional thinking he has choices on appearing on TV and he said "I gave up my career in TV" and I was laughing. This is a middle age man, balding, the plugs did not work, he with 8 children, her with 3 children and she is more masculine than he is with her whole demeanor. I can understand not wanting my children around Liz, absolutely. If she is being photographed by cameras for TV and still speaking with that language and the names she calls Jon and he accepts it, he doesn't tell her not to use that language. It is so degrading to see these two as a couple. Jon has no one to blame but himself for all that is going on in his life, he puts some of it on TV and I feel as though they are living in the same clothes and haven't taken a shower. To have your children see you sleeping in a bed with this woman, whom I can understand the twins not liking her at all. Above all else, Kate has never cursed, she has yelled, she has screamed but she has the ability to speak with
excellent grammar compared to this Liz. Jon should not be blaming Kate for his unhappiness and one can certainly see this unhappiness. If Jon could do it all over again, he would have gone into couples therapy, privately with his wife, the mother of his children and then worked it out because no one is going to fill that whole he has over missing his children and being a part of a family. Liz' family and kids are not his family. He misses his former life, I believe. I feel that he went wild and wanted more women, a single life and that began the destruction of each other in the public. But hearing Jon talking about all the women he can't even keep track of? That is sick to hear and see on TV and to hear Liz talk the same way? I would not insist my children go over there to Jon's place with Liz there. Not at all. If anything, it all has to stop. Jon on that show Couples Therapy to biotch and complain about Kate and now here he has it right in his face, his relationship with Liz is not compatible.He thought his problem was he and Kate. His problem is he and Liz, Kate is no longer in his life and she probably never will be because of people like Liz who would answer the phone and curse hello. This is just my opinion.

Wowser said...

So many pictures from the archives lol

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-beauty/pictures/stars-without-makeup-20122410/28960

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Just like addiction and obesity are not black and white, neither is someone who has dysfunctional relationships with the opposite sex. I think there is a difference between excusing and explaining. While I don't think Kate excuses the issues Jon is struggling with now, I think she did play a role in who he is today that cannot be ignored. Neither can you ignore the other women in his life and the men for that matter, including his mother and father and siblings. Each person who has an important role in our lives plays a role in where we are today, sometimes better sometimes worse. They don't call it mommy or daddy issues for nothing. These people certainly provide explanations for how we may have gotten from A to Z, which is not the same as an excuse.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I think "oh yes" is back, just in time for the holiday. Happy V day everyone!

Cesspool OfHate said...

1. Kate never swears.
2. Jon misses kate and still loves the life they had.
3. Kate has impeccable grammar. Ish.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

OT-Just a heads up for any Netflix watchers, if you didn't get notification, House of Cards, Season 2 is now available.

prairiemary said...

Thanks KitK:)
Njay and others here, am so very sorry that we have all gone thru very tough medical issues-but talking about them gives us freedom! If we keep things inside, we only get sicker, it is so nice of Admin., to allow us this great blog, and lets us vent all we want. Tomorrow is always a new day, at least we have that:)

njay said...

Knock! Knock!
Who's there?
Jon and Liz.
Why did you come?
Because we want help in the areas were weak.
Sorry, only those without issues are allowed.

Come on some of those who lost faith in what Jon is doing. Do you really know anyone personally who you can say meet the bar that people expect Jon and Liz to live before they can be a "true parent"? Do you really know anyone that has the "perfect child" with absolutely no issues? If you do then please give me their number because I still have so much to improve on. Never mind, I choose to walk the path before me and learn myself that I may trip over the bumps but the bumps wont kill me. Maybe then I'll be worthy enough to say I know enough to help others, because I was willing to look for the answer until I became a better person.

Poor Jon, people say "go get help" and when he does, people say he's too screwed for help. Last nights episode was what, ep 4? They have been there two weeks already. We know NOTHING of what he has learned but what? maybe ten to twenty minutes of group therapy?

Patience and perception is all I can say. Cut him a little slack until it's over.

prairiemary said...

I have a great idea! I should send my 'book' to tfw to read, she can read it right after she reads that poor fan of hers book. Maybe she should get into publishing, since she has experience and plans on writing more books! Have a great, safe weekend:)

Meagler said...

Prairiemary... I hope you shared your book with the administrator of the hospital you were in!!! That is awful, and no matter how tired or frustrated it is never okay to slap or hit you or anyone else.

You are so right, this stuff does happen. Its sickening to think about it, but we need to speak up.

Gigi said...

Cut him a little slack until it's over.
******************************************************

A lot of us have been cutting him a little slack for YEARS. Dude needs to get his poop in a group. Meanwhile, 8 children are growing up, really quickly. For all the therapy he's had, doesn't seem much has helped him.

Kirkland said...

Oh my gosh, I just discovered one of the pictures in Kate's cookbook is the same picture as one I found on a website called "12 Tomatoes".

I don't have Kate's cookbook, but you can view it on Amazon. If you go to the recipe in her book for "Cara's Sausage and Cheese Bake", there's a picture of the recipe.

On the "12 Tomatoes" website, there's the exact same picture which is for a recipe called "Chicken Enchilada Casserole".

http://12tomatoes.com/2014/02/dinner-recipe-chicken-enchilada-casserole.html

Am I imagining things? Tell me that's not the exact same picture!!!

Amanda, Iowa said...

Kirkland said... 117
Am I imagining things? Tell me that's not the exact same picture!!!
.....................................................................................................
Amanda says: That's one sharp eye Kirkland, you are right, its exactly the same photo. I put them side by side and that little piece of sausage in the right bottom is on the same spot as well as that piece of tomatoe next to that. Its just a cropped version of the bigger photo on the 12 tomatoes website! Hmmm???????

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Kirkland said... 117
Oh my gosh, I just discovered one of the pictures in Kate's cookbook is the same picture as one I found on a website called "12 Tomatoes".

I don't have Kate's cookbook, but you can view it on Amazon. If you go to the recipe in her book for "Cara's Sausage and Cheese Bake", there's a picture of the recipe.

On the "12 Tomatoes" website, there's the exact same picture which is for a recipe called "Chicken Enchilada Casserole".

http://12tomatoes.com/2014/02/dinner-recipe-chicken-enchilada-casserole.html

Am I imagining things? Tell me that's not the exact same picture!!!
________________

I'm 98.99999% sure that's the same picture. I'm basing my opinion on the woven mat and where the bubbling sauce and small meat particles are. Did some usurp this picture from someone else? Very interesting. Nice find, Kirkland.

Amanda, Iowa said...

casserole placed on same placemat.....lol lol lol!!!

Millicent said...

njay said... 104

An addict or an obese person is a person who's poor choices and bad judgement just happens to be drugs and food.
*****
Oh lord give me strength. Why did I waste my time posting about my own weight experience. It is pointless. Absolutely a waste of time.

Berks Neighbor said...

Kirkland...You are RIGHT! ! ! OMG! It's the same placemat, same 'grease pond' on the top. They just zoomed in on it for TFW's cookbook! !

If she lifted this photo then TFW should be SUED! ! ! ! Someone needs to tell AMAZON

But...to play devil's advocate...it could be that these are 'stock pictures' as well. Some major sleuths could find that out pretty easily.! ! However, if these are stock photos, then her recipes are inauthentic and she should be called out on the carpet for it.

lukebandit said...

When my oldest ds was 10 months old, his German grandmother, paternal side was visiting. My ex and I went to town and came back and she was just awe, he just ate and ate honey bread! I didn't realize that she just about killed my son.

He got extremely lethargic, lifeless and I took him to the pediatrician, thank God he was open on Sat. and he said, he is going to the hospital right now. Got him there, got him on a IV and later that evening, he was jumping in the crib! Dr. said, I am going to take the IV out, but you have to keep him drinking Gatorade so he won't dehydrate. So my mother went and found the snack lady that was going around and she had Gatorade. My mother asked for some and the lady refused. Mother said, it is for a patient who is a baby! She still refused. My mother came back to the room and told us and my ex jumped up, put his boots on and stomped out went to the Jitney Jr. across the street and he bought a big brown paper sack full of Gatorade.

When the dr. found out, he went and found the snack lady. You could hear him screaming all the way down the hall. Guess she won't turn down anybody anymore. But that has been 30 years ago!

The reason why he got so sick. She fed him honey on the bread and you can't do that. You can't feed a child under 6 unpasteurized food, it will make them sick. A lady that worked at the former clinic I went to her granddaughter ate the white cheese sauce at a Mexican restaurant and was in ICU for weeks and almost died, but thank God she made it. A small child and a person who has an weaken immune system can't handle it.

Berks Neighbor said...

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-84812374/stock-photo-chicken-enchiladas-baked-with-spicy-tomato-sauce-and-cheese.html

TFW's 'picture' of 'her' chicken enchilda recipe! ! !

lukebandit said...

Since we are talking about drs. and nurses how the treat their patients, there is a very good episode called Sick and Tired on the Golden Girls. Dorothy is sick, Rose knows she is sick, Blanche kinda doesn't believe it. Dorothy goes to a lot of drs. who do many tests. I don't want to spoil, but this episode is one of my top favorite GG's.

Here is part 1 out of 2.

Link: http://youtu.be/NhZL9gJp_ns

localyocul said...

Mel said... 44

Didn't Kate come back to the house with a totally different hair color on that episode? I think she went quite blonde from mouse brown. I did not see what you saw Dwindle. I saw a young child recognize her mother looking different because of the hair. To me it was a sweet moment and as much as I can't stand Kate, I just don't have any evidence to say this little child was fearful of her mother. Also, Kate was quite often on the road being a star back then and maybe the kids were actually missing her. She could have been gone 6 weeks with the tummy tuck/new hair do. We will only know the truth if these kids write tell-all books one day.

)))

I agree. I didn't see fear, I saw amazement. If she had been terrified she would have cried. That reminds me, one time my sister's haircut DID scare her daughter. The hairdresser came to her house for under the counter work. When my sister came out of the kitchen after getting her hair cut her one year old looked at her and burst into hysterics. LO>

Berks Neighbor said...

If you look at the Amazon site preview of TFW's crookbook you will see right above the heading for soups and stews, the picture on the far left actually still has the iStockphoto copyright on it.

She 'bought' those pictures and used them as her own. No wonder the pictures don't match up to the recipes. What an inauthentic person.

ncgirl said...

Radar has an article on Jon on CT. http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/02/jon-gosselin-couples-therapy-girlfriend-liz-jannetta/

fidosmommy said...

I am 100% sure those are the same picture. Every puddle of grease, every browned spot, every lump and bump is identical to the other picture. And Kate notes it is a copywritten picture. Do the photo credits say anything?

This reminds me of Amy B, the notorious chef at Amy's Baking Company ( think Gordon Ramsey) posting pictures of her "home made" desserts and someone finding the exact same pictures on other websites.

Are these food photos for sale to anyone who wants to pay to use them? Or they just swipe them?

localyocul said...

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said... 119
Kirkland said... 117
Oh my gosh, I just discovered one of the pictures in Kate's cookbook is the same picture as one I found on a website called "12 Tomatoes".

I don't have Kate's cookbook, but you can view it on Amazon. If you go to the recipe in her book for "Cara's Sausage and Cheese Bake", there's a picture of the recipe.

On the "12 Tomatoes" website, there's the exact same picture which is for a recipe called "Chicken Enchilada Casserole".

http://12tomatoes.com/2014/02/dinner-recipe-chicken-enchilada-casserole.html

Am I imagining things? Tell me that's not the exact same picture!!!
________________

I'm 98.99999% sure that's the same picture. I'm basing my opinion on the woven mat and where the bubbling sauce and small meat particles are. Did some usurp this picture from someone else? Very interesting. Nice find, Kirkland.

(((

OMG I usually skip over conspiracy theories here but YES that is the same picture, down to the placemat and the same little bubble in the sauce at the bottom. It's actually Cara's Sausage and Bean (not Cheese) Bake if you want to search for it here:

http://www.amazon.com/Kate-Gosselins-Love-Mix-Family-Friendly/dp/0757317642/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392436951&sr=8-1&keywords=love+is+in+the+mix

localyocul said...

How did you find that Kirkland? So funny

localyocul said...

I wonder what the Sausage Bean Bake really looks like? Why did they use a Chicken Enchilada Casserole for a Bean Bake dish? Hahahaha

Berks Neighbor said...

More stock photos of TFW's 'food'. *sigh* Who does this? She probably lifted the recipes, and then bought the pictures. OMG I'd be so ashamed.

Here's the picture for her Panini

Here's the picture for her banana cranberry Muffins

Here's the picture of the 'fruity fruit dip'

I could put more and more up...but you all get the idea. This was easy to find!

Flight of the Kiwi said...

Millicent - do not think for a moment that your post about your weight experience was pointless or a waste of time. It was not.

Anita said...

http://www.bigoven.com/recipe/217811/vegan-spinach-and-quinoa-enchiladas

Here is another copy of Kate's cookbook picture. If you right click on the picture, you can do a google search of this image on the internet. It shows up many times on different web sites.

AuntieAnn said...

Berks Neighbor said... 133

More stock photos of TFW's 'food'. *sigh* Who does this? She probably lifted the recipes, and then bought the pictures. OMG I'd be so ashamed.

Here's the picture for her Panini

Here's the picture for her banana cranberry Muffins

Here's the picture of the 'fruity fruit dip'

I could put more and more up...but you all get the idea. This was easy to find!

====

but..but..but I thought she said the photographer came out and she had to cook all these recipes and it was SOOOO fun. Where did I read that? OMG, she's not LYING is she? Kate Gosselin LIE??? can't be...

lukebandit said...

Golden Girls, Sick and Tired Part 2 Link.

Link: http://youtu.be/nll0vQM9eYY

SCgal said...

Omg, I cant believe she used stock photos. Hey, she posted some twitter pics of valentine food. Were they stock photos too?

Sleepless In Seattle said...

OMG I usually skip over conspiracy theories here but YES that is the same picture, down to the placemat and the same little bubble in the sauce at the bottom. It's actually Cara's Sausage and Bean (not Cheese) Bake if you want to search for it here:

--------------------

It's the same photo. If you look at the bubble on the chicken recipe pic, upper right corner is a bubble that looks like a monkey's face (matrixing...imaging things like animals in clouds!). If you look at Kate's picture, that same image in the bubble shows up in the top center of the casserole where the photo was enlarged.

Did she snag a photo from another site, and are those photos copyrighted? Are stock photos used often in cookbooks?

Math Girl said...

Kirkland said... 117
Oh my gosh, I just discovered one of the pictures in Kate's cookbook is the same picture as one I found on a website called "12 Tomatoes".
Am I imagining things? Tell me that's not the exact same picture!!!
---------------------------------
You're not imagining things. The LIITM pic is cropped to remove half of the food and most of the identifying details like the pancake turner. However, the dish, the placemat it's sitting on, and the food all match exactly if you crop it right. How did you spot it?

NJGal51 said...

That was a great find Kirkland. It's only a matter of time before the non fans that read here pick up on this and start tweeting about it. Uh oh Milo! How are you going to spin this? I cannot believe that TFW bought stock photos and tried to pass the off as her own in the "crookbook". Yes Milo, crookbook because it's a crime that some people actually bought it believing they were getting authentic recipes and pictures of those recipes.

Admin, if asked, would the publisher have to disclose that most/all photos used are stock photos and don't depict the actual recipes printed in the book?

Where's Sue Buddy when you need a good, snarky article!

localyocul said...

AuntieAnn said... 136
Berks Neighbor said... 133

More stock photos of TFW's 'food'. *sigh* Who does this? She probably lifted the recipes, and then bought the pictures. OMG I'd be so ashamed.

Here's the picture for her Panini

Here's the picture for her banana cranberry Muffins

Here's the picture of the 'fruity fruit dip'

I could put more and more up...but you all get the idea. This was easy to find!

====

but..but..but I thought she said the photographer came out and she had to cook all these recipes and it was SOOOO fun. Where did I read that? OMG, she's not LYING is she? Kate Gosselin LIE??? can't be...

(((

Didn't someone HERE or on Twitter say they knew the photographer that came out that day to take pics? I guess they just took the cheesy pics of them like TFW putting a chip in one of the boy tup's mouth

lukebandit said...

Oh, my TCFW. I just went on the 12 Tomatoes website where it says: Recipe Adapted by Citron Limette under the picture. Click on Citron Limette. They have the copyright on the picture. Or does iStock?

Well, the liar that lies keeps on lying. Is she THIS STUPID? YES! Is the reason why she called it Cara's is because when people found out it would get her name out there? I hope she is sued. She deserves it.

Probably did it for publicity, thinks she can get by with it because she is a single mom, does it all for 8 kids, was so busy and this was just easier to do she will say on the media tour that she had to feed her kids because blah blah blah I have to do it all.

Kirkland said...

localyocul said... 131

How did you find that Kirkland? So funny

---------------------------------------------

I actually "like" 12 Tomatoes on Facebook, and almost every day "12 Tomatoes" posts a recipe. When I checked my Facebook today, that was the recipe they posted today - with the picture.

I'm not sure why I recognized it. My hobby is photography and I like to look at pictures. I recall someone here mentioned all the grease on the picture in Kate's book and that it looked unappetizing. I made it a special point to look for that picture and I guess it stuck in my mind. So today, when I saw that picture in Facebook, I immediately recognized it! It just jumped out on me, and I knew it was the same picture.

I'm not sure what it all means, but I honestly thought the pictures in Kate's book were really pictures of her recipes. Didn't she hire a photographer?

AnnieD said...

Are the pictures of the kids stock photos too? :)
Unbelievable! No wonder the ingredients didn't seem to match the recipes. Somewhat fraudulent, don't you think?

NJGal51 said...

Slow down Lukebandit. IF she bought the stock photos she's entitled to use them. My question would be does she have to disclose that they're stock photos and not photos of the recipes in the book. I doubt she did it for publicity because she probably never thought she'd be caught. And who would want to go on a media tour to let the world know that she cheated and bought pictures of recipes rather than taking pictures of her own food creations? Plain and simple, TFW never thought that anyone would put 2 and 2 together.

Only mid-February and the top ten list is already complete. Admin, you may have to go to the top 25.

Meagler said...

Well...now we know why her recipe pictures did not look like it had the ingredients in the recipe. I had wondered why you couldnt see the black beans in that casserole... well now I know. There were not any.

Someone has GOT to tweet on her timeline about this!!! Lets s ee how long before this gets picked up by radar!!!

Hi katie... a little red in the face? Hoped this wouldnt be found out!!..lol...

Ex Nurse said...

I am sure that the fanz will claim that someone stole the pictures from her.or that all the celebrities do this.

MamaKnows said...

I'm with Ex-Nurse and her excellent comment re: addiction. There is definately a physiological component to addiction, but what causes one to such seek relief of pain, unhappiness, emptiness etc in the first place? I too believe in a spiritual cause or what I think of as a 'hole in the soul' - that empty feeling that one tries to fill with some addictive behavior be it sex, work, substance, shopping or gambling. (We all know women who use shopping to fill themselves up.)

I believe that some people are very empathetic and really too sensitive for this world which can be quite awful and trying. PSH strikes me as one of these types of people and it's likely what made him such an exceptional actor.

Ex-Nurse, your post about your spiritual journey through addiction and co-dependence was quite compelling and honest. Thank you for sharing it. Working on our patterns and issues is so important and it is a real gift to give to future generations. A Course in Miracles believes that the Biblical passage about the sins of the fathers being passed on to subsequent generations means this very thing. When we don't address and right our issues, we will see them passed onto our children for them to address and right until one generation gets it right.

Neither Liz nor Jon impress me on that show. At least Jon is open to change and help. That's more than we can say for Kate.

Ulysses said...

Jon is such an idiot. He really hasn't learned anything in all these years. What a disappointment. He's a complete loser. Between him and Kate, those kids haven't much of a chance at all. :(

He behaves like a child. His kids can't trust him because he blabs to any camera that's on him about their problems. Jon, you were supposed to swoop in and SAVE the kids! Not add to their misery.

The two of them are ridiculous!

Gigi said...

Jon's taking a beating on RadarOnline. And rightly so. BUT some people's comments are saying that maybe Kate isn't so bad after all!

Jon, you should have let her sink herself. She didn't need any help. And by the way? You're a disappointment.

JoyinVirginia said...

Great detective work! Stock photos for LIITM, what a surprise!
Re health care: I have worked in health care for years. There are lots of different areas where doctors and nurses can work, and a health care worker knowing what their own prejudices are is really important in finding the right place to work. Years ago I met doctor who was a public health administrator. I asked how did he get into that area, and his answer was - he did not like patients! He did like promoting public health, dealing with budgets and local governments and analyzing health care data for a region to identify problems and come up with plans to address issues. He liked health care on a regional scale, but found individual pesky patients annoying! He got an advanced public health degree after his medical degree, and was an excellent administrator and ran a very efficient, effective health department. and fortunately for patients and him,.had little direct patient care.

AuntieAnn said...

localyocul said... 142

Didn't someone HERE or on Twitter say they knew the photographer that came out that day to take pics? I guess they just took the cheesy pics of them like TFW putting a chip in one of the boy tup's mouth

====

Found it...

She did a blog about it on the Stir, when she still had a job (lol!)

"After the call, it hit me: I had nine outfits to pick in a palette of coordinating colors, a kitchen to clean like it was brand new, grocery shopping for a long and varied list of items (so that I could prepare the dishes on the "shoot day list"), and nine people had to be "picture ready" right after breakfast on that chosen date! OMG!"

http://thestir.cafemom.com/entertainment/153230/behind_the_scenes_photo_shoot

Kate is a twit said...

In the credits for the cookbook, it says "Kate Gosselin's food photos by Joshua Longbrake". Guess what? He has a twitter account and tweeted these tweets back in December.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
In 2009 I did some food photography for a book for a tv show. After we finished the book the tv show couple got divorced.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
Apparently books about cooking and family don’t sell well if there is a divorce. Who knew.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
But! Years later…people forget! The book got rebranded and published. How about that. pic.twitter.com/tQswdq9Evq

The picture in the last tweet is the cover of the cookbook.

He also tweeted:
Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
@goodbeerhunting a few of the meals were obviously excluded from the final book. "Jon's Favorite Meatloaf" and such. JON EATS ALONE NOW

So apparently those pictures were taken for the first Love Is In the Mix that was never published by Zondervan. So Kate actually didn't "lift" them from other sites, there were meant to be in the first book. However, she and HCI are definitely misleading the public by implying that they were recent pictures.

Since the photographer owns the copyright to the pictures, he may have sold them to sites which provide stock photos. I wonder if Kate and HCI had to pay him again for the use of his pictures.

The photographers that were there the day of the photo shoot, most likely took the pictures of Kate and the kids and the cover photo. The food stylist listed in the credits most like arranged the food in those pictures.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive.

Kirkland said...

localyocul said... 131

How did you find that Kirkland? So funny
--------------------------------------------------
I answered this question earlier, I'm not sure why it hasn't been posted yet. So I apologize if this ends up being a duplicate post.

Anyway, I found the picture totally by accident. The site "12 Tomatoes" posts a recipe every day on their Facebook page. When I saw today's recipe, I immediately recognized it. My hobby is photography, and this picture from Kate's cookbook stuck in my mind. I didn't like the grease on top for one thing. And I remember someone else said the same thing. So when I saw the picture today, I remembered exactly where I had seen it.

I'm impressed others here have actually gone out and found other pictures. Wow!

With everything that has been said about Kate's cookbook, it just never occured to me the pictures in the cookbook were not actual pictures of her recipes. I wonder if ANY of the pictures are actual pictures of her recipes. Hmmm.

Kate is a twit said...

" grocery shopping for a long and varied list of items (so that I could prepare the dishes on the "shoot day list".

So the only foods she prepared were whatever was included in the current pictures of her and the kids, considering the ones of the actual meals were taken back in 2009.

Kate doesn't "lie", she just implies things that aren't true.

NJGal51 said...

Didn't we discuss that we thought that maybe a food stylist had prepared the food for the pictures and tweaked the recipes to make the food look better? I think we had this discussion because a lit of the food didn't look like it had the ingredients listed in it. I guess we know why now. If you're going to use stock photos at least use ones that somewhat match the recipe. This puts the whole book into question now.

AuntieAnn said...

Kate is a twit said... 149

So the only foods she prepared were whatever was included in the current pictures of her and the kids, considering the ones of the actual meals were taken back in 2009.

Kate doesn't "lie", she just implies things that aren't true.

=====

Yes, isn't she just the clever one. She doesn't outright say she prepared the dishes that appear in the book, but would have you believe she did. Masterful twisting of the words again.

Does she not know the internet will not only show her children what a horrible father they have [When our kids grow up, they may see their father’s latest interview and wonder why he made untrue and hurtful statements about them], it will also reveal what a horrible fake their mommy is.

#phonyfibber

Great sleuthing Kirkland!

Ingrid said...

Great catch Kirkland. It would be interesting to find out how many of her food photos were taken there compared to how many are stock photo. I don't have a copy or I would try.

These are the photographers and food stylists given credit in the beginning of her book.

Arianna Falerni -family stills and food stills.
Food styling by Parihka Meta
Kate Gosselin's Food photos Joshua Longbrake SharpSeven Design
Food stylist/recipe tester Kiersten Buchner SharpSeven Design

TLC stinks said...

Anyone know the legalities of buying stock photos? Did she give credit in the cookbook? I know a photographer was credited. Can SHE be SUED? This is rich! We know her food looks like crap. The pictures are what sell me on trying a recipe. What a PHONEY!

Tucker's Mom said...

Watching Olympic coverage on Today- Lester Holt is interviewing Noelle Pikus-Pace. What a great, neat lady!
She's a skeleton athlete and returned to the sport after suffering a miscarriage. She has 2 young kids and although being an Olympian takes a lot of time and resources, she has included her whole family, hubby + 2 kids, into the entire journey.
She told her little girl (5-6 ish?) that Mommy was going to compete in the Olympics today (whole family in Sochi) and her cute little girl said, "are we having chicken nuggets for lunch?"
THIS is how children think- of themselves, and that's what they should be doing. No how firm Mommy's abs are, or how far Mommy ran today.
It reminded me of Kate making sure to order a "Yay! Mommy Marathon!" cake for the kids back home in PA, for HER MARATHON in Las Vegas, as if their worlds revolve around Kate.

Noelle is a mom who "gets" how her kids think and takes it in stride and doesn't pretend that even though she's an OLYMPIAN, that it means a hill of beans to her children at their ages.

Very inspiring and a real mom who shares with and includes her family in her happiness, not a mom who thinks that her kids are so happy for her endeavors as she leaves them behind.

Tucker's Mom said...

Admin, if asked, would the publisher have to disclose that most/all photos used are stock photos and don't depict the actual recipes printed in the book?

Where's Sue Buddy when you need a good, snarky article!
******
I would think that if you used stock photos, you'd give credits, ie: "photo courtesy of..."
At least it should be disclosed and not passed of as your own work, ESPECIALLY in a cookbook.
I don't have the book, but I wonder if it's in the fine print somewhere.

Tucker's Mom said...

Wow, Stock Photo Gate! The hits are coming in early in 2014.
I had a food blog for a few years, for those who haven't read here for a while, as I've mentioned it before.
I'm also a camera/photography geek and styling food photos is something I've done for years.
I NEVER used a stock photo and always used my own- some are pretty good, if I do say so! And, some got lifted and used- then I'd contact the blog/site owner and tell them to either take it down, or credit me for MY work.
Other times, folks would contact me and ask (ie: via Flickr) if they could use my photo, and I'd almost always consent since it would help their cause to put a nice visual on their page for their reader.
I've not published a cookbook myself, although my work has been included in others' cookbooks.
I just can't imagine that someone could find photos and use them, passing them off (if even tacitly) as their own.
Yet, I'm not surprised in the least when it comes to Kate.
Kevin was right- Kate has and will always find a way to do the least amount of work, and take ALL of the credit.

Berks Neighbor said...

These are the copyright holders for the pictures that I posted above.
They are photographers who 'own' the photos, list them on iStock and will receive a royalty from iStock when someone leases a photo from them.
As you can see they are all different people. I'm sure some of the photos may have been taken by that other gentleman a few years ago, but I will garner to guess that the majority of the photos were lifted/purchased from iStock and other photo warehouses online.
------------------------------------
Joe Gough - Enchilada Picture
SilvasDesign - Panini picture
Modesigns - Banana Cranberry Muffin picture
UTurn Studios - Fruity Fruit Dip Picture

TLC stinks said...

I am trying to understand this regarding the stock photos. Once you buy the rights, do you have to give credit? Is it illegal to use non credited stock photos (although legally purchased) in a book that implies those photos are actual photos taken by a photographer? Is the photographer in danger of being sued? Is Kate in danger of being sued for falsifying her cookbook? I've always seen photos credited, stock or not, and it seems to me that the crook book implies that the photographer took those pictures, therefore there has been a copyright infringement. Ironic, no?

NJGal51 said...

The wording on the photo credit is very vague and so typical of TFW - Kate Gosselin's Food photos Joshua Longbrake. Wouldn't it typically "food photos by"? By throwing in "Kate Gosselin's" before "food photos" they seem to be admitting that only some of the food photos may be hers. Do we know that the photographer owns the copyright on the pictures? With TFW it's my book my pictures. I kind of doubt that her pictures were sold as stock photos by the photographer because I'm sure TFW made him sign away his rights to the photos. I could be wrong but this is her typical modus operandi, sign or get sued. Interesting. Rest assured some of the more radical non fans AND fans will be tweeting this poor photographer now that Kate is a Twit has sleuthed him out.

Vanessa said...

These stories of abuse of power coming from "health care providers" is yet another form of BULLYING. The list of examples people are sharing occur in ANY profession.
Teacher, law enforcement, counselor, day care, retail, food service, (PARENTING! :)
It's the INDIVIDUAL not the PROFESSION. Those people would have the same attitude, prejudices, bullying behavior if they did something else. They may have thoughts going through their heads, but to ACT out on those preconceived notions and inflict pain (physically and mentally) on the person who is in your care?In your presence? That they are actually being PAID to get their rocks off inflicting abuse? That's WRONG. They DO need to be reported, called out on their behavior, as all bullies (true bullies!) should. We all know what tfw is like as a wife, mother, friend, *cough* NURSE. Imagine this same type of person as teacher, sales clerk, waitress, secretary, receptionist, doctor...respect goes both ways and if the person is not providing respectful decent "service", then you have the obligation to yourself (and the next person they are in contact with) to report it, make it known. And I truly believe UNIONS have a huuuuge part in these industries being saturated with bullies, slackers, abusers.

The Empress Was Stripped Bare-Nekkid said...

How Can I Use iStock Photos?

"When you download a photo on iStock, you're purchasing a royalty-free license that gives you the rights to use that photo in a wide variety of uses, including: advertising, publishing, websites, blogs and presentations.

Since photos are licensed on a royalty-free basis, you only have to pay for the initial download of a file and won't have to pay the photographer a royalty each time you use the image in a way that's allowed under that license.

If you wish to use an iStock photo in a way that is not permitted by the standard Content License Agreement, you can purchase additional Extended Licenses that give you even more rights to use this content, including: unlimited reproduction, allowing multiple users access to the photo, creating products for resale (limited runs), creating electronic products for resale (unlimited run) and an Extended Legal Guarantee that ups your coverage to $250,000."

http://www.istockphoto.com/faq/how-to-use#faq-photos-downloading

http://www.istockphoto.com/help/licenses

Vanessa said...

Are we surprised about the stock photos? haha! She IS consistent that's for sure!
I doubt what she did was illegal. Unethical yes. She had to have worked with a somewhat professional, there's no way she could have done it without paying for someone's expertise. I'm sure "borrowing" photos is a given in the publishing industry. Look at photoshopping for cosmetics. Mascara ads even print "individual eye lash extensions were used" or something like that. She gave credit to where she "borrowed" the pics from right?
Pathetic, lazy, inauthentic YES. A crime? no
Just like everything she does, it just leaves a very bad taste in your mouth. She can't be officially charged or punished for all the shit she pulls.

Formerly Duped said...

TFW made it sound like Mady took most of the book's photos.It was obvious they were professional pictures and did not look like the recipes she included

On this topic, her own photos of meals are usually poorly shot and the food runs over the frame, are grainy or weirdly angled. I do think the only food she can actually make is pizza- Valentine photos. They seem to have it so often, and was featured on the KC segment.

Winsomeone said...

Gigi

Are you able to see the comments on ROL with no trouble? I usually can, but not for the past few days for some reason. Wonder if it's my computer maybe?I think the less people hear and see Jon on TV, the better..in bigger doses, what you get isn't always what you thought he was. Plus his management needs to tell him that sometimes, the "real" Jon, isn't really what people want to see...they like the sanitized version better.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I kind of doubt that her pictures were sold as stock photos by the photographer because I'm sure TFW made him sign away his rights to the photos.

&&&

Yes I agree, if you shoot a book the photos belong to the author/publisher even if they never publish. It would be lunacy to turn around and sell them as stock photos, Kate would be furious.

I think the updated photos with the kids are from that New York photographer, some of the stand alone dishes are from that guy from 2009, and then the rest of the pages where she needed filler are from istock.

Not illegal nope. Inauthentic yes. If you publish a cookbook you are representing that those photos are YOUR recipes, tried and true, and that the photos you see are what you're aiming for. Pasting in a stock photo is so ethically wrong.

Oh boy is this funny. I think it's so funny that cheesy dish pops up all over the internet as different things. It's a sausage bake one place, enchiladas another, and then some vegan dish another. LOL! And here we were all along critiquing a greasy STOCK PHOTO.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


On this topic, her own photos of meals are usually poorly shot and the food runs over the frame, are grainy or weirdly angled.

&&&

I can say with virtual certainty that some of the photos in the book are just iPhone photos. Which to me is just an insanely unprofessional way to shoot a book. iPhone photos especially from the earlier models are very low resolution and shoot terrible in doors because their ISO is terrible. They get better and better every year but they're not at publishing level yet except in the most optimal of conditions in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. To blow them up and publish them in a book without a lot of tweaking in photoshop makes them look like garbage.

Vanessa said...

Oh boy is this funny. I think it's so funny that cheesy dish pops up all over the internet as different things. It's a sausage bake one place, enchiladas another, and then some vegan dish another. LOL! And here we were all along critiquing a greasy STOCK PHOTO.
**********************************************************************8
Yes, it is funny, also pathetic
didn't a lot of posters here point out pretty much right away that the pictures did not jive with the recipes?

See? She will never ever change. She's already purged the real truth about stealing those pics out of her head. DID not happen. She WILL take credit for those pictures. She's already made it so in her bleached out brain.

Call Me Crazy said...

Tucker's Mom said... 162

Wow, Stock Photo Gate! The hits are coming in early in 2014.
____________________________________

Ha Ha! Ain't that the truth?!? It probably won't be long now before someone exposes this latest deception in a review on Amazon. TFW is such a fraud. I can't even comprehend how she can look at herself in the mirror.

Great sleuthing, Kirkland.

And as a brief aside: Thank you to Millicent and lukebandit and njay and Ex Nurse and prairiemary and KitK and everyone who has gifted us with their private stories of struggle or difficulty. It is not easy to put this personal information out there. I believe by sharing your stories, you have helped some people, maybe in ways you could never imagine.

prairiemary - You can publish your book electronically through Amazon, and it won't cost you a dime. You just have to submit it for approval and, after approved, format it properly. It will just take some time and effort. You can do it. Good luck.

Luke's Mom - Thanks for the link to the song. I love the lyrics.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Has anyone else seen the new documentary The Armstrong Lie about Lance Armstrong?

Although his lie was very different, it's almost uncanny how similar his M.O. is to Kate's when she tells her lies and sells her inauthentic life. This stock photo thing is just the latest in a long, inauthentic line.

No shame, no remorse, believing the lies and sticking to the lies, suing anyone who didn't go along, bullying anyone who didn't go along, not seeing his behavior as "cheating," prone to exploding in anger, extreme narcissism. I'll do a post on it at some point, highly recommend it.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


Joe Gough - Enchilada Picture
SilvasDesign - Panini picture
Modesigns - Banana Cranberry Muffin picture
UTurn Studios - Fruity Fruit Dip Picture

&&&

Ah, proof they weren't all Joshua Longbrake.

You know now that I look at the stock photos it's so blatantly obvious they were shot by a wide variety of different photographers each with their own style, I'm kind of ashamed I didn't notice before. The book didn't feel cohesive I know that much, but I didn't spend a lot of time trying to pinpoint why. Now I know, because a dozen different photographers each with their own unique style contributed. I can't believe I didn't really register this before. I guess I didn't care enough to pay attention hehe.

localyocul said...

Just saw a promo for Monday's GMA. Robin Roberts is interviewing Kimberly Williams about "something she had not been allowed to talk about." I think it's the scam about the dying girl.

localyocul said...

Didn't TFW say the photographers were there all day? And say or imply she cooked a lot for them to take pics of? Am I remembering wrong? Wht a tool.

Anonymous said...

How mediocre, to rely on stock photos to help illustrate your cookbook. #LiesAreInTheMix

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I remember thinking and maybe posting at the time that only a one day photoshoot sure is a quick shoot for all the delicious bubbly photos in that book.

Now I realize of course it's impossible to shoot everything in that book in one day. Only the photos with the kids were shot in that one day. Everything else was Josh or istock.

localyocul said...

Kate is a twit said... 153
In the credits for the cookbook, it says "Kate Gosselin's food photos by Joshua Longbrake". Guess what? He has a twitter account and tweeted these tweets back in December.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
In 2009 I did some food photography for a book for a tv show. After we finished the book the tv show couple got divorced.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
Apparently books about cooking and family don’t sell well if there is a divorce. Who knew.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
But! Years later…people forget! The book got rebranded and published. How about that. pic.twitter.com/tQswdq9Evq

The picture in the last tweet is the cover of the cookbook.

He also tweeted:
Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
@goodbeerhunting a few of the meals were obviously excluded from the final book. "Jon's Favorite Meatloaf" and such. JON EATS ALONE NOW

)))

Hahahaha how did we miss this guy? SO FUNNY!!

localyocul said...

Meagler said... 147
Well...now we know why her recipe pictures did not look like it had the ingredients in the recipe. I had wondered why you couldnt see the black beans in that casserole... well now I know. There were not any.

Someone has GOT to tweet on her timeline about this!!!

((((

They are now!

Paula said...

Anonymous said... 179
How mediocre, to rely on stock photos to help illustrate your cookbook. #LiesAreInTheMix


3,2,1...Cue Milo...."well, everybody does it!"

Seriously, I don't think I've ever read about anyone who is as lazy as Kate Gosselin.



Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

I've been Googling. Apparently it's common these days to use stock photos in cookbooks. Just another example of the laziness of our society, always looking for the quick fix:

TUESDAY, APRIL 19, 2011
Ban "stock photos" from cookbooks, food magazines, etc.

http://gluten-free-blog.blogspot.com/2011/04/ban-stock-photos-from-cookbooks-food.html

This Gluten-Free Blog discussion will apply to more than just the gluten-free community today. I have chosen a topic I feel is important to all us "foodies" and consumers in general: the widespread use of "stock photography" and how these photos are increasingly being displayed alongside recipe and food products in place of photos of the actual product or recipe-output..............

The Empress Was Stripped Bare-Nekkid said...

Sorry. iComment #179 was me. Copyright, patent pending. :)

Vanessa said...

No shame, no remorse, believing the lies and sticking to the lies,
**************************************************************************

To a narcissist the lie IS the truth. When your "lies" are your convictions, how can you deal with, argue, debate, relate, SURVIVE with someone like this? You DON'T. You either play along or you cut them off. YOUR sense of truth, your sense of SELF has no place if you keep that person in your life. You lose YOURSELF. Deanna? Milo? You see how they put tfw on a pedestal? How they invest so much of THIER time and self? This is the only way to keep a relationship going with a narcissist. You're either banned/cut off when you question their reality, start poking holes in it, or you cut them off because YOU can't live the lie anymore. That's the difference, lies to a normal person HURT, gnaw at us. To a narc, lies
"Gives them wings!!" ™ (thank you Redbull:)

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


Well, I for one believe the widespread practice of using undisclosed "stock photos" should be banned for a variety of reasons, and I am not alone according to a recent article on NPR's website. Consumers are getting annoyed by this misleading practice.

&&&

Are the big time celebs Kate wants to be using stock photos? I doubt it. If you open up a cookbook from Jamie Oliver or Giada or Pioneer Woman, it's crystal clear none of them are stocks. They are all done with professional photoshoots in their homes or studios.

Those on a tighter budget, your smaller time cookbooks or magazines or web sites, might use stocks to spare the expense of a photographer and all the time and money of food preparation. This rubs me the wrong way for two reasons. One, a lot of photographers make a living doing this, and if it becomes acceptable to just use a stock photo then you've just put a whole bunch of photographers out of the job.

Two, cooks putting their food out there are in my view food journalists. That means you're not supposed to lie, mislead, or misrepresent your food "story" which includes the photo of your creation. Unless you very clearly label the photo STOCK PHOTO, it is implied the photo next to your post and recipe is your food. I think it's the same for many other artforms, including things like interior decorating, painting or photography. If you're doing an article with a photo and you want someone to BUY what you're selling, that's supposed to be YOUR WORK unless you specifically specify otherwise.

The issue here as I see it is dirtying it with money. I have less of a problem with using stock photos if you offer all your recipes for FREE, as long as you say "stock photo."

If you want people to buy a certain imagine, like your blueberry pancakes, it's flat out immoral and unethical to try to sell them a stock photo as you line your pockets wit their hard earned paychecks.

Call Me Crazy said...

localyocul said... 177

Just saw a promo for Monday's GMA. Robin Roberts is interviewing Kimberly Williams about "something she had not been allowed to talk about." I think it's the scam about the dying girl.
______________________

Hey local - I think she is going to talk about her mother's dementia, which the family tried to keep secret as long as possible. Here is a piece that was published just a few days ago.

http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/kimberly-williams-paisley-speaks-her-mom-39-dementia-221000411.html

Mel said...

Great. Another innocent person about to be inundated with the Gosselin Curse.

Blowing In The Wind said...

I remember thinking and maybe posting at the time that only a one day photoshoot sure is a quick shoot for all the delicious bubbly photos in that book.

---------------

Yep. I remember, too. When I picked up the book at B&N and looked at the photos, I thought...what the heck, she didn't cook all that food, . That would have taken an extended period of time (not to mention WORK) and she couldn't have made all of it. I don't know if using stock photos is common among authors of recipe books, but it certainly is deceiving, not to mention confusing because the recipe ingredients don't match up with what is shown in the photo.

"On this topic, her own photos of meals are usually poorly shot and the food runs over the frame, are grainy or weirdly angled. I do think the only food she can actually make is pizza- Valentine photos. They seem to have it so often, and was featured on the KC segment."

-----------------------

Yes! I thought about that, too. Why does her Twitter food look like something that the cat had tried to digest and then expelled, when all of the dishes in the book look so darn appetizing? I thought maybe, for the book photos, she was much more careful in the baking process, and with the help of a professional photographer, the pictures were cookbook worthy.

Now we have the answer.

NJGal51 said...

The real sausage bean bake as posted on TCFW's blog. Not quite the same as what was pictured in the book.

http://www.kateplusmy8.com/menu-monday-on-thursday/

And just for shits and giggles (and I mean that literally if you eat undercooked sausage) her famous sausage cacciatore.

http://www.kateplusmy8.com/menu-monday-5/

Quite honestly, I'd use stock photos too because neither of those would sell me on a cookbook because I do look at the pictures and if it looks appealing I'll read the recipe and maybe buy the book.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

I'm not going to be around much today, otherwise I'd check out some of the photos in celebrity-type cookbooks to see if they, too, use stock photos. It's easy enough to do on Google. Just copy the URL of a photo and put it in the Google Image search:

http://www.google.com/insidesearch/features/images/searchbyimage.html

Maybe someone else would like to give it a try?

Blowing In The Wind said...

So...we know who took the photographs, but who actually made all of that food? LOL! I'd hire that person to help me out in the kitchen!

Vanessa said...

And just for shits and giggles (and I mean that literally if you eat undercooked sausage) her famous sausage cacciatore.

http://www.kateplusmy8.com/menu-monday-5/

Quite honestly, I'd use stock photos too because neither of those would sell me on a cookbook because I do look at the pictures and if it looks appealing I'll read the recipe and maybe buy the book.
****************************************************************
LOL

But would you even attempt to write a cookbook? There's the difference.
She thinks her cooking is cookbook worthy, so she just does it. But she needs someone else's hard work to pull it off and pawn it off as her own. She "cheats" (a la Armstrong) then wants to be adulated, ouued and awwwed over her "accomplishment". She wants you to accept and praise 'the lie'. The lie she's turned into her reality.

NJGal51 said...

I once saw an episode of Barefoot Contessa where Ina showed how she prepared her food for a photos shoot, how the stylist arranged it, how the photograph shot it and then pictures of the finished product. She said she only believes in using her own food and the best part is that they all sit down and eat it when done.

Mel said...

TFW always says that people who meet her love her.

It's actually the opposite...anyone who comes in contact with her eventually comes to rue the day.

Watch this poor photographer's timeline light up with goody, milo, etc. accosting him.

Over And Out said...

If I'm understanding this correctly, it is legal to use stock photos if the photographer is credited, or if the photos have been purchased according to the law set down (copyright issue). If so, then Kate really didn't do anything wrong or illegal, but when such photos appear in a book, the "average" person is led to believe that the photos actually depict the dish prepared by the author of the book.

This would not be considered plagiarizing, or stealing photos from elsewhere, and assuming that, Kate really did nothing wrong in using stock photos. However, ethically, it is deception. I'm sure the "haters" on Twitter will jump on this and claim she stole the photos and plagiarized the contents therein.

If she obtained them legally, then it's not plagiarizing, but it certainly is misleading. Typical Kate.

Michelle said...

Kate is a twit said... 153
In the credits for the cookbook, it says "Kate Gosselin's food photos by Joshua Longbrake". Guess what? He has a twitter account and tweeted these tweets back in December.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
In 2009 I did some food photography for a book for a tv show. After we finished the book the tv show couple got divorced.

Joshua Longbrake ‏@joshualongbrake · Dec 28
But! Years later…people forget! The book got rebranded and published. How about that. pic.twitter.com/tQswdq9Evq
------------------------------------
So if "Kate Gosselin's food photos" were taken during the TLC years, what are the odds Kate cooked any of the food in those photos either? I'm guessing slim to none. Her contribution, if any, was probably "masterminding" the people doing the actual cooking.

FlimsyFlamsy said...

Wow, this is a lot to digest - pun intended!

If nothing else, this is proof that TFW has deceived the readers of her cookbook. If a recipe lists ingredients A, B, and C, and there's a picture beside it, the assumption is that those ingredients will create the meal in that picture. There is no other interpretation -- no matter how the sheeple will be spending their Saturday trying to defend it.

TFW's name is on that cookbook, and we heard about the hours and hours she spent working on it. She was busting her buttons with pride.

This is a biggie. Get yer popcorn! And Auntie Ann, please get to your craft table -- there should be some award-worthy spin coming from the barnyard today!

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