Sunday, April 7, 2013

'The People vs. Larry Flynt': Was Falwell bullied and deserved damages for emotional distress, or was it just free speech about a public figure?

'Free speech,' said the Supreme Court in 1988.

What if you said a very famous celebrity likes to sleep with goats? What if you said that celebrity loves hard liquor and is always intoxicated in public? What if you said his first sexual experience was with his own mother?



In 1983, Larry Flynt said all that and more about Jerry Falwell in his magazine Hustler. Falwell sued him for 50 million dollars. What followed was one of the greatest victories for free speech, specifically parodies and criticism involving public figures, ever to come down from the Supreme Court. The decision was unanimous. Said the court, in part:
"Justice Frankfurter put it succinctly in Baumgartner v. United States, 322 U. S. 665, 673-674 (1944), when he said that "[o]ne of the prerogatives of American citizenship is the right to criticize public men and measures." Such criticism, inevitably, will not always be reasoned or moderate; public figures as well as public officials will be subject to "vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks," New York Times, supra, at 270. " . . .

. . .In the world of debate about public affairs, many things done with motives that are less than admirable are protected by the First Amendment. In Garrison v. Louisiana, 379 U. S. 64 (1964), we held that even when a speaker or writer is motivated by hatred or ill will his expression was protected by the First Amendment: Thus while such a bad motive may be deemed controlling for purposes of tort liability in other areas of the law, we think the First Amendment prohibits such a result in the area of public debate about public figures.
"Debate on public issues will not be uninhibited if the speaker must run the risk that it will be proved in court that he spoke out of hatred; even if he did speak out of hatred, utterances honestly believed contribute to the free interchange of ideas and the ascertainment of truth." Id., at 73."

Falwell and Flynt later became good friends, visiting each other frequently, going on speaking engagements together, and exchanging Christmas cards. In 1998, Flynt apologized for the ad. Falwell leaped to his feet and shook Flynt's hand.

This Oscar-nominated film from 1996 details Falwell's early life through the famous court case and his near assassination. It can be viewed for free and legally from Crackle.com on Youtube.

1762 sediments (sic) from readers:

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Ex Nurse said...

http://www.examiner.com/article/james-mcgibney-claims-he-ll-prove-jon-gosselin-and-robert-hoffman-cahoots

This article went up n the last few hours. His Nibs said he will release the proof when Hoffman puts the boot out for general release.

So, yes. What we have here is a good old-fashioned pissing contest!

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

Very apropos.

JoyinVirginia said...

THANK YOU ADMIN!!!!!!!!
Woody Harrelson and Edward Norton are just perfect in their roles.
Even Courtney Love is good. The film evokes a certain era in American political life. An era that seemed very shrill and adversarial at the time, but now seems kind of quaint in a way.
No one else could have portrayed Flynt except Woody.

TLC stinks said...

From last topic, I found this. If McGibney comes out with emails, it is illegal.

Federal law prohibits hacking into e-mail, but without further illegal activity, it's only a misdemeanor, noted Orin Kerr, a law professor at George Washington University and a former trial attorney in the Justice Department's computer crime section.

not a fan of Jon's said...

I'm bringing over my posts unless you can put them here maybe?

localyocul said...

LOL! Isn't this the case you referenced in your apology! I want to watch this!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Yes it is local, enjoy it!

By the way, it's interesting to note that Larry Flint also apologized to Jerry Fawell for his parody, which he should have :):

After the discussion had touched on First Amendment issues involving pornography and school prayer, Seigenthaler returned to the subject of an apology. "He (Falwell) said he was offended because of what you published about his mother."

"That was fifteen years ago," Flynt responded.

"But you still say you don't want to apologize?" Seigenthaler asked.

Flynt, seated in a wheelchair as a result of a bullet wound from the gun of attempted assassin, considered a moment and then said: "Well, if it means something to Jerry, yes, I'll apologize." Falwell leaped to his feet, beaming, and warmly shook Flynt's hand. The audience applauded.


http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=6772

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I like Falwelst's warm acceptance of the apology. Maybe if he had done that 15 years ago this all could have been avoided. Interesting to ponder.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Even Courtney Love is good.

&&&

Courtney Love should have won a supporting Oscar.

It's sad because Courtney Love is an incredible talent. Ruined by substance abuse and other issues.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I had the opportunity to hear Larry Flint speak in college. This is when he was doing a lot of speaking engagements at colleges, not sure if he still is up to that.

He spoke almost exclusively about the First Amendment. It was an incredible speech, packed house. He was a great speaker. I learned so much in just one night. He is INTELLIGENT. He wasn't just some crass guying publishing pornography, he is very passionate about the legal issues involved and very knowledgeable and reasoned and logical about them. Did you know he quit school at age 15?

not a fan of Jon's said...

Someone posted...
Please do tell us all what Jon should have done.
I, for one, would love to hear it.

I answered...
All Jon had to do was keep a low profile during the divorce period. If he had done that, he would have come out smelling like a rose and Kate would have exposed herself to be the abuser that she is.

I'm aware people want me to forgive Jon for that period of bad behavior but I never will. Because of the way he dealt with that period of time, Kate got the upper hand and continues to this day.

That's pretty much it. I can't forgive someone for something they did that STILL HAS AN IMPACT TODAY. Jon ruined his reputation and in the process Kate was, and still is, the rational one. WE know it's not true that Kate is the rational one, but the general public doesn't.

not a fan of Jon's said...

Admin posted:
Well now I'm really confused. You said Jon didn't protect from the abuse. What does keeping a low profile during a divorce have to do with whether you are protecting from child abuse?? That's two completely different things. The fact that you choose to keep or not keep a low profile during divorce doesn't mean you're not protecting against child abuse.

I'm answering:
His behaviour after/during the divorce DIRECTLY correlates to today's events. No one believes Jon or thinks he's a stand up guy anymore. Well, the majority don't anyway. And that hurts his case TODAY because it appears ROL and a lot of general people believe that he IS responsible for the book.

See, if he'd just kept his head on straight in the beginning, he'd have a better reputation. Thus, people wouldn't be so apt to take Kate's side over his.

Some one ASKED me why I can't forgive Jon. I'm just answering. Why are all the rest of you posting? Why are YOU invested?

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


See, if he'd just kept his head on straight in the beginning, he'd have a better reputation. Thus, people wouldn't be so apt to take Kate's side over his.

&&&

There's like 6 people that take Kate's side on this. What?

What you're saying makes no sense to me. Many guys have a bad relationship or two, made a few bad decisions, or had a brief wild time and then get back on track. It's called being human. That's why most people can accept a brief lapse like this and not write off the guy as forever a bad person. If Jon had done this before marriage at 21 no one would think a single thing of it. He didn't get that time that most men go through. He was separated from Kate, he didn't cheat on her, what did he do that was THAT bad? There is nothing illegal about dating some people not right for you and renting an impractical apartment.

If it had gone on longer or was continuing today, that's different. I can't help but think that for some there may be some outstanding issues over past relationships with men never really put to bed that is causing such anger toward this guy for doing what so many others have done before him as they find their footing. Men mature slower than women do, most of us are through our bad decisions time by the time high school is over. That's just not often the case for men.

This still has nothing to do with child abuse which was your original point. Even men who are sleeping around can protect their kids from abuse.

foxy said...

Thanks for doing this narrative. There are so many lessons that can be learned from this movie. Freedom of speech, sincerely apologizing, sincerely accepting the apology,just to name a few. Maybe Kate and BV should watch this especially since it is free. I saw BV on Anderson Cooper awhile back when he was advertising his cheaterville site. He is a disgusting wormy looking creep. Our boyfriend did not look amused.

NJGal51 said...

April25th is International Pay It Forward Day. Since Kate tweeted that she paid for someone's coffee at SB her sheeple have been claiming that her generosity has inspired them to do random acts of kindness. Now that we're publishing the date lets see how long it takes Kate to jump on the bandwagon. I think she's trying to get people to focus on something other than BV.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I think it's so awesome they became friends. You should read the article about that, basically Flynt never even tried to be friends because he thought there is no way, but he wasn't opposed to it.

It was JERRY who reached out to him one day and just showed up at his office one day! Flynt was like.....seriously? And they were friends from then on. AND they both made money together doing speaking engagements, everybody wins.

Sometimes your greatest enemy is best kept in your back pocket.

I think this story is just great.

not a fan of Jon's said...

I feel like I'm repeating myself but i'll try once more.

If Jon hadn't turned into public enemy #1 during the divorce, perhaps people today wouldn't be so quick to judge him TODAY.

And if he weren't judged TODAY on his 'douchiness' from before, he'd have more clout and perhaps, just perhaps, a reputable media outlet would help him get the abuse message out.

Sure, a lot of people hate Kate. But I think a lot more people hate Jon more. Why does ROL always have negative articles about him? Because they still think he's that same person, an idiot.

Why don't other media outlets take Jon seriously any more? Because he ruined his own reputation a long time ago.

Anyway, I'm done. Celebritiy Apprentice and Big Brother Canada are coming on. hee

fidosmommy said...

not a fan of Jon's said... 10
Someone posted...
Please do tell us all what Jon should have done.
I, for one, would love to hear it.

I answered...
All Jon had to do was keep a low profile during the divorce period. If he had done that, he would have come out smelling like a rose and Kate would have exposed herself to be the abuser that she is.

*******

Thank you for answering.

I do not understand this. How would Jon's staying under the radar have allowed Kate to be exposed as an abuser? I don't see how one follows the other. If you could clarify, I would appreciate it.

Kate Gosselin who? said...

Guess I won't watch it after all. Thanks for the play by play admin. Geez.

OrangeCrusher1 said...

Did not see the new post, so bringing this over from previous:


Ah who cares if you can't 'forgive' Jon, statements like that make me wonder why some people seem to be so emotionally invested in the doings of other people. And considering that Jon keeps a low profile, is off Twitter (which means no nasty passive-aggressive RT's from him), is not leaving the kids with strangers on a TV show, well, why drag up old stuff which is, today, none of my, or your, business. Just my 2 cents.
Give it a rest already.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I still haven't the foggiest notion how any of those debatable points have to do with your original unequivocal statement that Jon didn't protect form child abuse. I guess now you're saying you're assuming that he is a bad person due to a couple wild months. I don't follow the logical connection. Someone's dating behavior has nothing to do with how far someone will or will not go to protect their children. Two completely different things. If anything we saw Jon continuing to be a good father during this time, often seen playing with them including kicking around a soccer ball, pulling them around on sleds, and fighting for custody when Kate abandoned them to do DWTS. That's flies in the face of your point.

I think I'm going to have to shrug in confusion here. :)

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

The play by play? Are you suggesting I'm spoiling it with public information about a public and very famous case? LOL. This movie is over 2 hours long. The main points mentioned here are common knowledge.

The court case is actually just a small part of it. Enjoy.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

The friends thing and what happened after I don't think are even mentioned in the movie. I haven't seen it in years so I barely remember.

OrangeCrusher1 said...

That's pretty much it. I can't forgive someone for something they did that STILL HAS AN IMPACT TODAY. Jon ruined his reputation and in the process Kate was, and still is, the rational one. WE know it's not true that Kate is the rational one, but the general public doesn't.

~~~~~~~~
The general public does not care about either one of them. And Jon probably is blissfully unaware you can't forgive him. As it should be.

Kate Gosselin who? said...

If anything we saw Jon continuing to be a good father during this time, often seen playing with them including kicking around a soccer ball, pulling them around on sleds, and fighting for custody when Kate abandoned them to do DWTS. That's flies in the face of your point.


I get the point the OP is making. Sure, we here on this blog know without a doubt that Jon is a great guy.

But the media still portrays him to be struggling, unemployed, broke, etc.

I think Not a fan of Jon's is trying to say that Jon's public image is still bad and because of that, no one would believe him if he started spouting out about Kate abusing the kids. I think that's what the OP is trying to say?

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...



But the media still portrays him to be struggling, unemployed, broke, etc.
&&&
I agree with that. Kate has done a great job spinning this tale.
&&&
I think Not a fan of Jon's is trying to say that Jon's public image is still bad and because of that, no one would believe him if he started spouting out about Kate abusing the kids. I think that's what the OP is trying to say?
&&&

I could be wrong, I thought she was trying to say because Jon made a few bad decisions during the divorce, he must have also made a bad decision when it came to Robert, or protecting against child abuse. As fido pointed out one doesn't follow the other.

I don't do well with logical fallacies. Especially since I have so often personally witnessed that someone's dating behavior often has almost nothing to do with their decisions in other parts of their lives. For instance someone may be an excellent employee, a wonderful parent, and a devoted member of the rotary club, but may be in a bad relationship because they have some issues not hashed out yet, like insecurity or perhaps past abuse or who knows what. Relationships are one of the most complex things we do.

Kate Gosselin who? said...

I agree that we here (some of us) don't judge Jon for his previous behaviour...but the media still DOES.

I think I get it! Jon could have been a spokesperson for abuse if he'd handled the divorce better and wasn't portrayed as such a bad guy. (I think LOL)

Why can't the general media see what we see? Why do they stll villify Jon?

OrangeCrusher1 said...

The media villify Jon because it sells, they don't care, at least the rag media which is the only place you find Gosselin interest. Why it is such an emotional and raging issue for posters here is what baffles me.

Snickdog said...

They villify Jon because they aren't going to villify Kate. Kate is a mother of 8, the media won't "go there" and criticize her to the extent that she deserves--and she knows this and milks it for all its worth. To the lazy person, having 8 children MUST mean you're a great mom.

Since Kate can't be the bad guy, Jon must be. They will never dig deep and see what we see about Jon, just as they will always give Kate the benefit of the doubt.

Unless she does something terrible TODAY to her kids--and there are witnesses--no one in the media is going to jump on the abuse allegations. Not going to happen. She's the mom of 8. To some, that's sacred.

Snickdog said...

Having said that, it doesn't mean she's going to get her own show or get back to the level she was a few years ago....the media may not pummel her but hopefully they aren't going to continue to reward her.

This is all just my meaningless opinion, of course.

fidosmommy said...

I can't believe for a second that "most" people vilify Jon. It sounds to me that "most" are being counted in a very small pool of people, such as "most of my friends in my carpool think Jon is an idiot". The truth is, "most" people have only marginally heard of him.

Jon is his own worst enemy said...

Yes. Jon further perpetuated this myth by going a little nutzo during the divorce. He shot himself in the foot and can't recover from it.

NJGal51 said...

Hey Kate - I just pre ordered Alex guarnaschelli's new cookbook. Sorry, it just looks better than yours.

She is evil said...

I always had a soft spot for Jon. He is a sweet man who had the grave misfortune of marrying a very sick, cruel and vindictive woman. He loved her and she shat on him. Wish him and the children all the best.

prairiemary said...

I have watched this movie twice, and urge others to watch it, it is a real learning type of movie.
I was lucky and quick enough to have bought Robert's book the first time, and have printed every page out, so last night I began re-reading it all. I can't believe how many things that I missed the first time I read it! Reading it this second time has been really worth it, I think I read it slower this time, and knew which parts I wanted to make better sense of, especially during her DWTS weeks. I wish I could send my copy out to others to read, but it is just not possible, so am lending it out to people near me, who did not get the chance to buy and read it the first time. I really hope the second book will be available a.s.a.p.
I sure admire you Admin., for having the courage to run this blog, don't think I would ever have the patience you have with dealing with some of us:)

Silimom said...

Not a fan wrote: Because of the way he dealt with that period of time, Kate got the upper hand and continues to this day.

My response: I understand your point that Jon is not taken seriously today by the mainstream media because of his prior antics. However, I think you are a bit naive in your understanding of the family court system.

I don't think the outcome of the custody and financial settlement would have been any different. My understanding from many who have posted here with first hand knowledge of the PA Family Court system is that it is biased towards mothers. Jon likely would have only been given 2 weekends a month anyway. In addition, child support is calculated using a child support calculator and given his reported income at the time, he would still have had to pay the huge sum he was ordered to at the time. Jon did receive money from the divorce settlement but his extravegent living at the time coupled with his support payments meant he went through it quickly. I suppose had he kept his head and a low profile he wouldn't have burned through his money so fast but again I don't think the child support order would have changed whether he partied or lived quietly so he still would have spent it eventually.

As someone who has followed this saga from its early days, it was also my understanding that Kate and Jon had already had at least one call to CPS while they were married and living in ETown, but I admit that could be a mistaken memory. If they were however then obviously CPS in PA did not consider the children to be in any danger. Robert Hoffman also obtained Kate's journals during the divorce and filed his complaint with CPS at that time and CPS did nothing. I also think, again if memory serves, that CPS was called around the time the kids were expelled and again CPS investigated and nothing was done. So I'm not sure what Jon could have done, short of taking the kids while Kate was on one of her book tours and moving out but even then Kate had TLC's team and money on her side at the time and the courts would have likely given her custody anyway since my understanding is that the kids would have needed to have been in a mom induced coma from being beaten so badly for the courts to take away her parental rights.

You don't like Jon and can't forgive him and I respect your right to feel that way. However, I hope you can understand and respect why many people here have difficulty with your arguments. Again, life is not black and white. I don't think Jon having a better reputation would change the public view of Kate. I would hazard a guess that 98% of the population could give a rat's behind about Kate let alone really know who she is. It's a big deal to people here because we make it our business. Joe Public, not so much. I'd even say Kate is probably as looked down upon as Jon at this point in time and this mess with Bullyville hasn't helped her any.

FYI said...

Bullyville has not tweeted since April 6 @ approx. 4pm. He stated there was another account with his name on it, tweeting as though it was him.

There are a few twitter accounts, that I can find, that have been blasting @bullyville. These accounts seem to be anonymous type twitter accounts, perhaps "real" anonymous?

One of the tweeters tweeted a picture of Dr. Phil speaking with McGibney and it has a drawing over top of it. It is not in McGibney's favor.

It seems they are saying that McGibney works for the FBI and has "outed" some real hackers.

Anonymous said...

Went to see the movie "Django Unchained" this afternoon and I give it a 4 out of 5 stars but if you don't like Quentin Tarantino's stuff than don't go see it. It's over the top violence, bloodspilling and vigilante justice and for some reason it made me think about this nonsense between Kate, BV, twitter and RH. Note: this is in no way a threat to anyone but I couldn't help picturing RH as Django (Jamie Foxx) dancing on his white horse in the last scene of the movie. Go Robert!

Sophie

Remona Blue said...

not a fan of Jon's said... 12
''No one believes Jon or thinks he's a stand up guy anymore. Well, the majority don't anyway. And that hurts his case TODAY because it appears ROL and a lot of general people believe that he IS responsible for the book.''
~~~~~~~~~~
MANY people believe Jon, and think he is a stand up guy. Many on this blog have criticized Jon when they thought he got off track, and have commended him when he admitted his failure, and apologized to his children. When KK heated up things with his girlfriend, Jon got off twitter and has stayed silent. Jon's silence about KK and his children and his determination to live as 'normal' a life as possible. Many on this blog have praised his silence.

Your opinion and my response is a good example of free speech. You have the right to say what you think, and I have exactly the same right to express my disagreement.


fidosmommy said...

I don't think I will ever get the negatives about Jon. I guess disagreeing about it isn't going to matter in the grand scheme of things.
I still say he's someone I would love to meet for a cup of tea. Or cola. He just seems like a genuinely nice guy to me, in spite of the
Ed Hardy shirts phase.

Sleepless In Seattle said...

Hey Kate - I just pre ordered Alex guarnaschelli's new cookbook. Sorry, it just looks better than yours.

------------------------------------

Now if only she'd learn to get her arms and elbows off the table, sit up straight, and keep the bowls on the table and not hold them up to her mouth (while judging Chopped), all would be good. Her table manners (and Marc Murphy's) drive me crazy.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I'm pretty sure some of the more rabid haters probably called CPS too in addition to Robert, I remember years ago some people saying they have. There were a couple episodes like Collin being constipated that really angered people. CPS has to do an investigation if a call comes in even if it's a quick one. The most logical conclusion is that they did their investigation and closed the case, for whatever reason.

There is a comment from the other thread I didn't get a chance to respond to about how PA does protect some kids. I absolutely agree. I don't think anyone thinks PA does "nothing" for kids, I just checked and there were 13,000 kids in foster care in PA in 2013. I'm guessing that's mostly lot of drug cases out of the cities. Those kids probably should be in foster care. Remember Sandusky's victims were foster kids. Obviously there are kids in foster care.

However, what PA does have is a shameful history of protecting their "celebrities." They protected Penn State for a long time and probably still would have, and they didn't crack down on the child labor violations on Jon and Kate until basically A Minor Consideration forced them to. Then it was just a slap on a wrist for multiple serious violations.

This is not a place like Ny or CA that can afford to alienate a few badly behaving celebs, there are thousands more where they came from. I'm sure PA thought if they get a reputation they are not celeb friendly, there go all the productions that have wanted to film there lately. And to take on Penn State if you don't know by now is basically striking at the very heart of PA. They didn't want to do it. They too had their hand forced by the media and I think would still be protecting Penn State if not caught. They are still protecting that despicable principal who still has her job.

This is why in Los Angeles a separate division was created for child abuse cases involving celebrities. Specially trained socially workers who are aware of all the special privacy concerns and also are supposed to be hyper aware of not treating them any differently than anyone else, are always assigned to those cases. Courtney Love, who is in this very movie, went through the process a long time ago and her child is in a legal guardianship. She did not get special treatment. She lost her child more than once. She lost her when she was a baby too.

Anyway I am sympathetic to states where there is not a lot of filming going on who could really use the money, they are in an uncertain position with their talent in the state AND their labor laws, child labor laws and production laws in general alike. It's one thing to make your state production friendly with low taxes and easy to get permits and the like. But I don't think you should cross the line into also protecting child abusers, looking the other way, or letting child labor violations slide. This is where the major error was.

Which brings me to another point, national child labor laws. Then states wouldn't get to play the "my state is more friendly to child labor than that state so come film here" game.

Millicent said...

Admin said:

If it had gone on longer or was continuing today, that's different. I can't help but think that for some there may be some outstanding issues over past relationships with men never really put to bed that is causing such anger toward this guy for doing what so many others have done before him as they find their footing
********
I think you may be on to something. Some people have said or demonstrated that they cannot move past things Jon did years ago, specifically when he appeared to drink heavily, go to bars, party it up, and otherwise behave foolishly. Even then, he still was there for whenever his custody time was, there is no evidence that he drank heavily while the children were with him, and most importantly --- this period was relatively brief and he's settled down and has been living a responsible, hard-working life since.

So why the refusal to move on? Why won't some people let go of Jon's past mistakes? Especially since they are mild in comparison to what Kate has done and continues to do? I think there is some transference going on.

Not one single one of us is perfect. I guarantee that every poster here, including me, has made some pretty poor decisions that we wish we could do differently. However, there is no way to go back and change the past. There is only moving forward, and trying to do better. In Jon I see a man who has moved forward and done better, so who am I to say: "You can never, ever, ever, ever, ever be forgiven for that short period of time in your life when you acted the fool. NEVER!"

I cannot imagine what it would be like if I had friends or family who constantly brought up something I did five years ago, or ten years ago, and told me "you are still that person to me" no matter what I've accomplished in that intervening 5 to 10 years. If people want to be stuck in the past, there's nothing we can do, but I cannot take their opinion seriously. Jon's done a lot of growing up, but it sounds like some people here have not done the same. It's time to let go of the past and move on. Judge Jon by what he's done in the years since the divorce, not one period lasting approximately 6 months in time.

JoyinVirginia said...

The movie ends right after the court case. I love Edward Norton as Flynts attorney. Long suffering attorney!
I didn't know anything about his marriage until I saw the movie. I do agree, Courtney Love was amazing and perfect for the role. The scene at the beginning from his childhood in the country, making money and worried about his profits, is foreshadowing of his concerns in adulthood. How the magazine got started is Ann interesting story in itself.

NJGal51 said...

Sleepless - You've got a point about Alex's table manners on Chopped and she's always got that "puss on her face" when she's tasting the food looking at you. But, I watched some episodes of the show she used to have and her home cooking did look good.

fidosmommy said...

Brava, Millicent, brava! Perfectly said, and I thank you.

Call Me Crazy said...

not a fan of Jon's said... 17

If Jon hadn't turned into public enemy #1 during the divorce, perhaps people today wouldn't be so quick to judge him TODAY.
________________________________

Hi not a fan. I appreciate your thoughts on this, but you are overlooking a key point that affected how both Jon and Kate were portrayed in the media.

Jon turned into public enemy #1 not because of his bad behavior, but because it was in Discovery/TLC's best financial interest to back Kate. Jon made it clear that he no longer wanted his children to be filmed. Conversely, Kate was completely willing to have Discovery/TLC do anything and everything they wanted in regards to filming the kids. So Discovery/TLC did everything they could to make Kate look good and Jon look bad.

Had the roles been reversed, with Jon being agreeable to filming and Kate objecting, Discovery/TLC would have thrown their full weight and support behind Jon. You can bet if that had happened, Kate's abuses and misdeeds would have been revealed, and Jon would have been made to look like the sympathetic party. Discovery/TLC had the means and the money to spin the story any way they wanted it spun. They would have made Jon's indiscretions look justifiable, and Kate would have been toast.

It was all about money and power, and Discovery/TLC hitched their horse to the person who was going to allow them to continue raking in the big bucks by exploiting the kids.

shiitakemushroom hitting the fan said...

What she wrote :)


"I cannot imagine what it would be like if I had friends or family who constantly brought up something I did five years ago, or ten years ago, and told me "you are still that person to me" no matter what I've accomplished in that intervening 5 to 10 years. If people want to be stuck in the past, there's nothing we can do, but I cannot take their opinion seriously"

insert name here said...

Courtney Love's daughter got full emancipation.

not a fan of Jon's said...

I think there is some transference going on.

Please don't try to diagnose me simply because I think Jon Gosselin is a wishy washy man at best.

If people want to be stuck in the past, there's nothing we can do, but I cannot take their opinion seriously. Jon's done a lot of growing up, but it sounds like some people here have not done the same. It's time to let go of the past and move on. Judge Jon by what he's done in the years since the divorce, not one period lasting approximately 6 months in time.

As well, I don't take any one else's opinion of Jon seriously. I'm feeling like if the guy murdered kittens, someone here would say "They deserved it! What was he supposed to do? He can't support all those kittens!"
Ok, slight exageration her but also, kinda not either.

Enabling is what I feel some of you do. You think I'm transfering my feelings, and I feel like you are enabling him.

We'll never agree but I don't hate you for it. I like to see what others have to say.

Anonymous said...

"Not only did he release the names of the people who were viciously attacking Kate Gosselin on Twitter, but he also filed a class-action lawsuit against the worst of them."

This was in the Examiner article reference in the first few posts on this thread. So it is fact that a lawsuit has been already filed? If so, Admin., can you get a copy of it for public release?

Leslie

Butterfly said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 163


First I follow the traditional view and most legal definitions that bullying is an issue for children only and not grown adults and especially not grown adults in the public eye.
__________________________________
I tend to agree that the majority of bullying occurs in the juvenile population, there are adults who get bullied. Unfortunately, feeble-minded, mentally handicapped adults tend to be bullied and, in the military, there is bullying. It occurs more often than is comfortable to admit. I have seen it myself. The weak get bullied. Some build a thicker skin, some dont cope as well. It also leads to violence against the victim. There have been a number of beatings. The victim tends to be a mentally slower person, or a perceived weaker person who cannot fight back, who wont stand up for themselves.

gotyournumberKate said...

Thanks for the post, Admin. I'm confused though. Were the things Flynt said about Falwell's mother and alcohol use true? Is it only when the things said are lies that someone has a case? What constitutes defamation of character and slander? Everyone participating in the Gosselin debate has had their opinions but very few things have been proven as fact. I'm sure some of the things Kate and Jon were accused of doing have been wrong. There have been some really far-fetched accusations floating around out there from the very beginning. Even if BV would have cases of slander there's been many times Kate has been caught lying as well. She's accused many people of lying knowing darn well they're telling the truth. She can't accuse Robert Hoffman of lying though because he has threatened to expose everything. This, in my opinion, is why she is using BV. She has them doing her dirty work and I'd bet a lot of money she's paid them to do it.

Virginia Pen Mom said...

fidosmommy said... 39

I don't think I will ever get the negatives about Jon. I guess disagreeing about it isn't going to matter in the grand scheme of things.
I still say he's someone I would love to meet for a cup of tea. Or cola. He just seems like a genuinely nice guy to me, in spite of the
Ed Hardy shirts phase.

===========

Yes, I agree.

One thing I notice is that Kate's PR people have often gotten Jon negative articles and Kate positive ones. Yet when real people (not paid reporters) talk about the the two of them, people say Jon is nice, kind, funny, down-to-earth, generous, and good to the kids.

I can't recall anyone (not paid by Kate) saying those things about Kate. About Kate, we hear rude, entitled, stingy, selfish, law-breaking, demanding, lying, and mean to the children.

I think if you really want to know how someone is, ask the person that served them a meal, cleaned their house, or took them on a tour. People Magazine and Kate Coyne--I think Coyne has had too many "coynes" thrown into her own purse!

Who can ever forget Ashley, Jamie's and even Steve's reactions on that R.V. trip? Remember when they asked Steve if he'd travel with this family again, and he made a face?

Jon has made some mistakes, true, but it takes incredible restraint--and love for his children--not to lash back publicly at Kate G. when she continually bashes and belittles him. He's not in a public spitting contest with the mother of his children, unlike classy Kate.

Vanessa said...

"And that hurts his case TODAY because it appears ROL and a lot of general people believe that he IS responsible for the book.''

***********************************
ROL is prints controversial headlines to get people to click. Go and read any other of their "stories" they all sound the same, stirring up shit. Tabloids. If a lot of general people believe he's responsible, why are 99% of the comments not agreeing?

Vanessa said...

His behaviour after/during the divorce DIRECTLY correlates to today's events. No one believes Jon or thinks he's a stand up guy anymore.
**************************************
Only because khate had an infinite amount of $$resources and TLC WAS SPINNING THE MEDIA did Kate (at the time) come off as better. Some sleuths discovered that NBC, Discovery, TLC and maybe more entities were all under one ownership. And pls correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Oprah own Discovery? They were protecting their assets ie-Jon wanted out, Khate didn't. Who knows if he was going to blow the whistle himself during that crazy time? EVERY MEDIA OUTLET WAS ANTI JON/PRO KHATE. There was a "coverup" since TLC KNEW of the abuse but came out guns a blazing, deflecting, spinning. THAT is why Jon has that "reputation" plus nobody held Khate accountable for the alienating and bashing she was doing. Khate was only GENUINELY shown as herself at the end, when they had had enough of her and her contract was up. Who know how many confidentiality contracts SHE had to sign?

NT said...

ROL is stating that 80 peolple have joined the lawsuit. I'm just wondering out of all these people,who will pay the attorny;s fees?

Gosselin8ComeFirst said...

NJGal51 said... 15
April25th is International Pay It Forward Day. Since Kate tweeted that she paid for someone's coffee at SB her sheeple have been claiming that her generosity has inspired them to do random acts of kindness. Now that we're publishing the date lets see how long it takes Kate to jump on the bandwagon. I think she's trying to get people to focus on something other than BV.
-----------------------
Part of the virtue of doing a random act of kindness includes not having to brag about it. Most people do this often and do not even think to mention it.

Mel said...

Millicent...agree with you.
However, the public in general has not kept up with this story and only remember Jon as the Jon we knew during the divorce time.

That was the time where TLC was running their huge propaganda scheme of Kate as a saint, and Jon as the douche.

For some reason, no matter how much proof there is otherwise, the general public has stuck with that scenario.

I do agree with the op that if Jon had not had that time of acting out he would have a better time of it now. While it was understandable to some degree, and he appears not to be like that now, for some reason he is never going to live it down.

It seems like the general public hates them both, perhaps tarring Jon with Kate's feather...very frustrating to see Jon not given any credit for being the (much) better parent.

Gosselin8ComeFirst said...

Millicent said... 42
-----------------------
Well said! And while I don't think Jon is perfect, he tried to stop the ongoing filming of his kids several times(and lost in Court), has 50 % custody awarded by the Court, has largely stayed out of the spotlight post divorce and kept his kids out of the spotlight during visitation, and in my opinion, clearly has connected with his kids in a far healthier relationship than Kate, as he does consider THEIR needs first. Not as a means to an end. I base this on both the TLC footage, his desire to stop filming, and the overall silence of his time spent with his kids.

Anonymous said...


Wow, just read the ROL article. Looks like Katie is scared to death of Robert's book, stirring things up, attempting to gain sympathy/credibility before the hammer comes down. Although the article ends up being a nice marketing piece for the book.

And just where is her mighty LA-based lawyer team? No mention of them. Huh. Wonder why. Much crappola about nothing.

heather

Sue Buddy said...

To MJ and Ex-Nurse, I wanted to let you both know that I didn't ignore your comments to me yesterday. I replied to both of you around 10:30 am. By 4 pm my comments still had not shown up. When I got back home around 9 pm I saw they'd finally arrived!

I had this problem back at the time of my last article, my replies to those who had commented to me did not make their way to the blog.

I don't know if it's a Blogger problem or something with my browser. For me it seemed to become problematical when we went to moderation. I'm not signed into Google now to see if that helps. I hope this shows up before evening.

Marie said...

I am not a fan of either Jon or Kate. I do think that some of the things Jon has done in the past were to get back at Kate, but Jon seems to have moved past that, while Kate is still trying Jon in the public eye. All of this should be done in private, not where the children can see it on Twitter for God sakes.

Marie

Let's throw tomatoes said...

I have two opinions of Jon .
I don't care about the womanizing because a lot of people react that way when dumped by their spouse, I've personally know two. I didn't like that he abandoned his children and left to New York when he knew Kate physically abused his children.

I do think Jon is a nice guy and has a great relationship with his kids. How do I know, by the smiles, hugs and overall body language when they are with Jon. You don't see that when they are with Kate!

On another note, Kate really is the kiss of death! INF DAILY (her favorite pap) hasn't written a story since 2/25.
Partnership with HIC: Kate has sold only 30+ books on Amazon, and that's with her desperate fans trying to help her!

Are you worried The Stir??

gabby2 said...

All I can say...is there must be something realrealreal bad in Robert's new book.

Some thing VERYVERYVERY true.

The hired Twitterbots will be active. If bully really cared about bullies, he'd go after the people that trashed Jon. And as KK is the biggest bully I have ever seen on TV, he'd help Robert expose her colors.

Gosselin8ComeFirst said...

I find it interesting that some on Twitter say that some "use the kids as an excuse" when "bullying" but quite frankly it misses the point.

I believe that the majority of the posters on this blog do NOT twitter Kate, at all. We state our opinions (you know what they say about that : ) but most importantly have the kids in mind. It is mind boggling to many, IMO,that after all of this time using her own kids to film, that she does not respect THEIR right to privacy. It really is that simple.

By now, she should be able to pursue solely whatever endeavors she has in mind. And give the kids their much earned privacy. JMO.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


I tend to agree that the majority of bullying occurs in the juvenile population, there are adults who get bullied. Unfortunately, feeble-minded, mentally handicapped adults tend to be bullied and, in the military, there is bullying. It occurs more often than is comfortable to admit. I have seen it myself. The weak get bullied. Some build a thicker skin, some dont cope as well. It also leads to violence against the victim. There have been a number of beatings. The victim tends to be a mentally slower person, or a perceived weaker person who cannot fight back, who wont stand up for themselves.


&&&

I 100% agree that these are the few situations where adults get bullied. There must be some kind of weak vs. strong dynamic. I don't see how by any stretch of the imagination Kate is in a position of the strong preying on the weak. If anything, she is the strong. She has the public forum, lawyers, the media, power and control over her kids, power and control over her fans, the ability to call the police or involve the courts, and so on. It's just insulting for someone with that kind of power and control to actually compare herself to weak adults who are bullied.

Gosselin8ComeFirst said...

Marie said... 63
I am not a fan of either Jon or Kate. I do think that some of the things Jon has done in the past were to get back at Kate, but Jon seems to have moved past that, while Kate is still trying Jon in the public eye. All of this should be done in private, not where the children can see it on Twitter for God sakes. ---------
Yep! That's what a good parent would do. Consider their kids first.

JoyinVirginia said...

Got your number, in the film, at the time there was a series of Campari ads talking about ”my first time” drinking Campari. Flynt and company decided to do some parody ads, talking about a celebrity s first time having sex. For Falwell, the more outrageous the story, the better. The scene in the film where they come up with it is funny. The scene in the courtroom where they ask Falwell about it is even funnier.

TLC stinks said...

Good Morning, everyone. I plan on watching the movie in the next few days. Never saw it before.

I have no idea what will become of any class action suit but McGibney has an attorney he has used for some other suits. This guy is probably on retainer and McGibney has to follow through with all the bragging. He has money. He is the CEO and founder of Enterprise, Nevada based ViaView, Inc., which owns and operates the web sites: BullyVille.com, CheaterU.co, CheaterVille.com, CupidVille.com, DramaVille.com, JudgeVille.com, KarmaVille.com, SlingerVille.com, and VocalVille.com.

CheaterVille is interesting. It's a revenge site for spurned lovers and anyone can post, even lies, without fear because CheaterVille.com is a 3rd party site and the law says they are not responsible for what is posted. So if someone wants to sue, they have to go after the offender, not the website.

I have no idea if this is a rumor or fact but it is circulating that McGibney outed some Anonymous members to the FBI, thus their displeasure with him.

Pretty funny comment on another blog now that ROL has come out with McGibney's line that 80 have expressed an interest in joining the class action suit. A commentor said they won't stop until they reach 88. LOL!

I believe that the class action will be filed but thrown out. It's a publicity stunt and no judge is going to put up with such nonsense.

I am offended by all the back and forth and it's a sad day when freedom of speech is attacked. There are some habitual players on both sides that need to STFU, and if they end up in court, so be it.

I am anxiously awaiting McGibney's proof of the money trail. I can't imagine he did it legally, but I don't know the law.

Let's remember, it can be tit for tat. There's always a trail and there could be one between Kate and McGibney. With all the public figures out there that get beat up on Twitter every day, it doesn't make sense to me that McGibney would, without a reason, take up for Kate Gosselin. Apparently there are screen shots of DM's that Kate was looking to out people in Feb. and mentioned BullyVille in one of them.

Not understanding what is going on with ROL's Perel and McGibney. They don't verify what he claims, yet they made Robert take a lie detector test.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

gotyournumberKate said... 53
Thanks for the post, Admin. I'm confused though. Were the things Flynt said about Falwell's mother and alcohol use true? Is it only when the things said are lies that someone has a case? What constitutes defamation of character and slander? Everyone participating in the Gosselin debate has had their opinions but very few things have been proven as fact.

&&&

Gotyournumber it's okay it's confusing! :-)

No, the things said about Falwell were not true. They were lies. This case stands for the idea that there are two separate rules when it comes to defamation. One is for private figures and one is for public figures.

Private figures you basically have to make a false statement presented as a fact that harms someone's reputation. If you passed this flyer around about your neighbor you're probably in trouble.

This case adds an extra element to that rule when the person is a public figure. You still have to make a false statement as fact that harms. But you must show ACTUAL MALICE, which is a reckless disregard for the truth. This case doesn't go much into it but the plaintiff (Falwell) has to prove actual malice. This is important, because that means that things said about public figures are PRESUMED to not be made maliciously and the person suing has to somehow prove otherwise. It's hard to prove. I remember we discussed this year, I believe Carol Burnett did win a suit once back in the day for a story about her being drunk at an event. If I recall, she had numerous witnesses who said she wasn't any such thing, and the newspaper's source at the party had never said she was drunk. It was malicious. But celebs winning such suits are few and far between.

This case also talks about how parodies and jokes are part of debate and that this one was so over the top obviously everyone knows it's a joke and you can't sue for it. Some people call this the "Saturday Night Live" case because if this case had turned out the other way you might have been able to cripple what SNL could say and do.

Anonymous said...

Post #51 I said that the examiner wrote the lawsuit was already filed. If this is true, would it be open to the public, Admin?
Leslie

Anonymous said...

Remember the video that Jimmy Kimmel or Falon did on Kate getting her own dating show. I wonder if BV considers that bullying. For instance, if a hater had made that exact video, I wonder what Kate or BV would think or do about it?
Leslie

Anonymous said...

I found the Jimmy Kimmel dating video. It is very funny. I think BV would consider it harassment and mean.

http://www.realitytea.com/2012/07/27/video-jimmy-kimmels-hilarious-spoof-on-kate-gosselins-new-dating-show/

TLC stinks said...

The Examiner only rehashes what ROL posts. There is no way that a lawsuit has already been filed. Each person who is interested in joining the lawsuit would have to be vetted. They can't do this in a couple of days. A case has to be built. I bet not a single person reported harrassment to the police. It will be months before a class action is filed. ROL is only regurgitating what McGibney feeds them.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Exactly, even emergency lawsuits take several days to put together. A normal class action non-emergency lawsuit could take years before you ever file.

The real question here is how are 80 people being duped so easily. This is never going to happen.

chefsummer said...

@msgoody2shoes21 @exodusanonymous @Kateplusmy8 It is pathetic that Jon would stoop that low for a buck..poor kids! We love u Kate!

Kateplusmy8@trentnanny09 @msgoody2shoes21 @exodusanonymous XO right back atcha. :)
++++++

Has Goody forgot KK just put out a cook book using her 8 kids so she could make a few dollars?

chefsummer said...

MsGoody2Shoes21 ‏@msgoody2shoes21 10h
How's this for logic.......

If it's good for the goose then it's good for the gander. @Kateplusmy8
++++

So does this mean your going to call KK on her S**t?

Marie said...

I really have my doubts that 80 people have even signed up. There are approx. 6 rabid Kate fans that I can imagine signing up. I just think this whole thing is just bluster on the part of McNiblets. ROL is just regurgitating what he is feeding them. Sad, but true.

Marie

chefsummer said...

MsGoody2Shoes21 ‏@msgoody2shoes21 11h
@Kateplusmy8 - #KidsRPeopleToo is a hater and is worried about you trashing Jon when, IMO, he has trashed you repeatedly since 2009.
++++

Um no that was KK.

Jon said he dispises Kate 3yrs ago and I can see why.

Kate still talks badly about Jon.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

IMO, he has trashed you repeatedly since 2009


&&&

I just don't understand this idea of just completely making a fantasy up that just isn't true.

In 2009, both parents were talking negatively about the other. Shortly afterward, Jon stopped. Jon has either said nothing, or said NICE things, ever since. Remember that interview he gave about how he calls Kate when the kids are sick? He bent over backwards to be nice.

When you make a statement like that, provide some examples. I.e. in September Jon said this, in October he then said this. Yesterday he said this. They have nothing like that. Nothing.

On the flip side, we have dozens of specific examples, going back years and CURRENT, of when Kate trashed Jon, from retweets to actual words, all documented here. Let's start with Kate's retweet and thanks for the tweet about how Jon ruined the family but she healed it.

I don't understand how you can come out on the side that has no evidence and ignore the mountain of evidence that speaks exactly to the opposite. It's like there's something not connecting in the brain.

chefsummer said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 79

Ms Goody acts as if Jon scorned her and not Kate (in her mind).

I wonder what is her problem with Jon and why she hates him so much.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Chef when I see it becomes so very personal for some is when I made the comment about unresolved issues with men. I.e. comments like I can't forgive him. Huh? It's not you that has to forgive anything you're just a bystander. Frankly that sounds like maybe you can't forgive someone else in your life. I'm virtually certain there must be some kind of men issues for Goody. She seems to hate men. I mean, it's okay if there are. Lots of us have admitted we have narcissists in our lives.

Vanessa said...

"It's like there's something not connecting in the brain"
***************************
ding ding ding! You get a prize! :)
You can't fight crazy!
This McGibney character is just as nutso as Khate.
(in my opinion)These people (narcissists) pull sh*t out of their hats, will OUTRIGHT LIE and FABRICATE. If you've never had the pleasure of having to deal with one, count yourself lucky. They cannot be swayed, they will not back down and they are always right and have absolutely NO problem lying, even contradicting themselves in the same sentence.
2 nutsos with an axe to grind, wonder what perceived "wrongs" he's been a "victim" of.
I agree with the posters who are saying there is something HUGE that will be exposed from the book.

OH, and I read on another site a quote from Hoffmans' book, that she (and she made the kids) refer to the African-American bodyguard as "Mr. Chocolate"!!!

NJGal51 said...

Sadly for Kate I think that this whole BV mess has made her even more of a Z list laughingstock. Even if 80 people have signed up people are saying " WOW 80 whole fans!" It doesn't take a genius to look at her timeline and see that many of the tweets are drive-by twitterbots that have been purchased to tell her how wonderful AND inspirational she is. Kate bought someone a cup of coffee and Angelina Jolie just donated $200K to the Malala fund. Is a cup of coffe the best you can do Kate? How about donating some $$$ to an anti-bullying fund or something like that? All this praise from her twitterbots for a cup of coffee (shaking my head and rolling my eyes).

chefsummer said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 81

Your right it personal for some.

Kate clams to be a christian and she wasn't forgiveness for people.

But she won't forgive Jon for whatever she thinks he has doe to her.

And she lets stranger talk bad about him.

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

A great woman has passed on.
Rest in peace, Margaret Thatcher.


A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

TLC stinks said... 75

The Examiner only rehashes what ROL posts. There is no way that a lawsuit has already been filed. Each person who is interested in joining the lawsuit would have to be vetted. They can't do this in a couple of days. A case has to be built. I bet not a single person reported harrassment to the police. It will be months before a class action is filed. ROL is only regurgitating what McGibney feeds them.

************************************************

Personally, I don't believe that the class action lawsuit is in existence- just an empty threat.

I read earlier on Twitter, that some people are requesting the 1-800 number of the law office that will be (or is) taking on this lawsuit.



Silimom said...

80 people are being duped so easily because we don't teach critical thinking skills to our youth anymore. At least, that's my opinion. They believe everything is like it is on tv. Someone says they'll sue, the show goes to commercial break and bam! The next scene everyone's in court.

What disturbs me about this whole thing is the actions of McGibney. Personally, if he were going after me or my website, I'd be contacting the ACLU to support my rights.

This will be interesting to see how it plays out. I always say the Lord can use anything for the good. Even Kate Gosselin.

njay said...

I fear for Kate the day she shows how ungrateful she really is when BV make one mistake and brings her into something that will Go bad. Ok, I know, everything BV is doing is already bringing her into something bad. I mean when she says something like last time, remember the bad language and not your mom thing? Yep, those young boys did not like that one bit and were willing to turn on a dime against her.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Maybe there will always just be suckers.

There were suckers who fell for snake oil salesmen back in the day. Maybe this is the 2013 version!

marie said...

Can't believe what Bullyville just put on TWitter. Those poor kids.

Marie

boo said...

New post by BV. Looks like an old girlfriend came forward with old text messages from Jon. My money's on Haley or Kate Major. Doesn't look good for Jon. Very disappointing but I can't say I'm shocked.

Here We Go said...

Hold on to your hats, folks. BV has released texts from Jon in 2009 wherein he states he's going to grab Kate's computer and give it to someone to hold onto.

Somewhere In Time said...

I really have my doubts that 80 people have even signed up.

-------------------

It's possible. There are those who are jumping on the lawsuit just in anticipation of a big settlement. You know, those who will claim "A fan told me to get a life and I suffered emotional distress and months of therapy over it."

These are sheeple. They don't understand that you have to prove damages and have a valid claim or it's going to be thrown out.

"I've personally know two. I didn't like that he abandoned his children and left to New York when he knew Kate physically abused his children."

---------------------

He never "abandoned" his children. He was two hours away and was available for them if they needed him. He saw them on custodial time. That's hardly abandonment.

boo said...

The other side of the coin, though, is no allegation so far that Jon tampered with the drives. So, though I don't condone taking his wife's computer without her permission, it appears the info on them is legit. This was right at the time of the divorce, so emotions were running high. I can see why he might be driven to do it then out of anger, but over time, he should have put the brakes on this. This is for the courts/family law judge, not the media or twitterverse.

OrangeCrusher1 said...

Look, hardly anyone here "knows" Jon or Kate, but I agree with the position that we are all bystanders and when the blog rhetoric gets personal, i.e. "I can't forgive . . .", you just have to wonder. That was my point on other thread about that Ms.Goody person, her tweets are nasty in a way that points to it being about HER personal life. And yes, if someone in my life were grudge holding years later, I would probably have to let them go. If Kate took her life private as her ex-husband has pretty much done, she would soon be out of the world of negative publicity, as no one really cares THAT much about her. But this latest insane romp through Bulleyville shows that she is not giving up HER dream, no matter what the blowback will be to her children. For that she continues to be a horrid mother, and frankly, a completely unlikeable person, at best.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


He never "abandoned" his children. He was two hours away and was available for them if they needed him. He saw them on custodial time. That's hardly abandonment.

&&&

I agree. There was never a shred of evidence Jon ever once missed his custodial time. Kate did the same thing when it wasn't her custodial time. She even went to Mexico once and certainly took many trips to NYC. As long as it's not her time it doesn't matter.

If anything it was probably best, given how tense things were at the time, that when it wasn't your custodial time to just put some distance between the two of you. Let the other parent have their time undisturbed. Don't give the kids the option of saying I want to run to Daddy's or I want to run to Mommy's.

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

chefsummer said... 84
Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 81

Your right it personal for some.

Kate clams to be a christian and she wasn't forgiveness for people.

But she won't forgive Jon for whatever she thinks he has doe to her.

And she lets stranger talk bad about him.

************************************************

Mmmmmm... remember the Gosselin "Love Offerings" church tour?

Nothing particularly "Christian" about taking cash only "Love Offerings" from kind people, while earning beaucoup bucks with TLC.



Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Oh man he does say he will be a silent partner. Well, if those are verified, I stand corrected. Sad. I hope he tried all other avenues before resorting to a tell all.

Still doesn't change the fact that the abuse happened. Those babies were pulled by the hair and whipped into a crib, but that will get lost in who disclosed what.

chefsummer said...

njay said... 88
I fear for Kate the day she shows how ungrateful she really is when BV make one mistake and brings her into something that will Go bad.
+++++

If that happens KK and her fans will turn on BV.

boo said...

Looks like my first post got eaten. The new post by BV is sad. I think we can all think of a couple of exes of Jon's that kept his old texts or gave BV permission to get them from Verizon. What a sad, sordid tale this continues to be, on both sides.

chefsummer said...

Fired Up 4 Kate ‏@MiloandJack 16m
@BullyVille Amen! Despicable/just totally hard2conceive a father doing this2the mother so loved by the Gs! What is wrong w/him? @Kateplusmy8
++++++

And all of the nasty things Kate has said and done towards Jon who the kids also love.

MJ said...

Vanessa, here is the quote from the book:

Besides Steve Neild, the Gosselins have another bodyguard who accompanies them on trips for filming. I’ve met him and spoken to him several times while working for US (Nothing whatsoever for this book or my US reporting. He was always completely professional and loyal to the family.)   For the purpose of describing him though, he’s a very large, athletic-looking black man. The thing that just isn’t right though, is that thanks to Kate, the Gosselin children refered to him as ‘Mr. Chocolate.’ She must have thought that would be cute to have her kids calling him this name. I wonder how he felt?

Hoffman, Robert (2012-09-27). KATE GOSSELIN: HOW SHE FOOLED THE WORLD (Kindle Locations 19422-19428). . Kindle Edition.

chefsummer said...

So Jon is getting punished because he was being honest?

This is what his supposed text reads.

If it was Kate her fans would be saying the texts are fake.

MJ said...

Still doesn't change the fact that the abuse happened. Those babies were pulled by the hair and whipped into a crib, but that will get lost in who disclosed what.

Exactly!

Terri said...

You know this is really a sad situation any way you look at it. I think if Jon did this, it's a pretty shady way of getting his point across. Meanwhile most are forgetting that while it might have been wrong of him to do, the message is still crystal clear. That those are Kate's words and there is no way she can deny it.

Let's throw tomatoes said...

No, no Jon was gone for a long time! I remember he not only went to New York but also Park City where he met a girl name Christie(?) and also was in LA where he was spotted at a Dodger game.

I don't care that he made a deal with Robert . To bad that he didn't do it sooner! Kate is still a CHILD/ANIMAL ABUSER and that is never going to change!!!!

Winsomeone said...

In the past, Kate never disputed that the computer and hard drive with her journals were on Jon's computer, and were thrown in the trash, and "stolen" from there. Now, suddenly we discover that the hard drive was stolen out of her computer, that was in her house? Surely her lawyers would have used that information to stop Robert's book when it first came out, wouldn't they? I just do not believe this new story.

chefsummer said...

Kate was gone to Australia with Steve for how long?

She was gone doing her "Marathons" for how long?

Come on your going bust Jon out do Kate as well.

chefsummer said...

Terri said... 100

And she hasn't denied that she wrote it that's what her fans need to realize.

terri said...

Now the sheeple are saying that Jon and Robert altered Kate's journal and added and or removed text. My god if this were true Kate would have been denying this a long time ago. Yet, not a peep of denial from her. She could have said something along the lines of "I never wrote such things and I am demanding proof that I did." Yet total silence.

Snickdog said...

IF Jon did indeed take Kate's hard drive and give it to Robert, then I am very disappointed in both of them, especially Robert Hoffman for lying in his book about where he got the information.

That said...I'm not 100% convinced these "texts" are real (though I'm open minded enough to believe there's a chance of them being real)

Is there always a Subject when sending a text? I've just never seen that--emails, yes. Texts, no. But I may be wrong obviously.

Some of the dialog sounds phoney..."I will put the nail in her coffin someday from it"....it just doesn't sound real to me. Also, why wait 3 years to put the nail in her coffin, after all she put him through between 2009 and 2012? If Jon had written a "tell all" during the peak of their popularity, he'd have made a fortune.

On October 15, 2009, there was a blurb on ROL that Stephanie Santoro said that Jon had "hacked" into Kate's email and phone. But in the texts, he's saying he's grabbing the hard drive. That's not hacking, is it? Or is it?

I hope we haven't been defending Jon for nothing. And I'm beginning to not care one way or another.

LB said...

I'm not sure 100% but I used to have a blackberry phone. You had both text and email from Blackberry. From what I remember, when you send a message to a cell phone number from your computer, you could send it like an email in case you did not have your phone with you. So why does these look like emails and says sent from wireless? Why wouldn't he just send texts? Plus it says SIM texts, apparently someone saved these messages on a sim card. I don't think a phone company would release a customer's records without a court orders. So who has the sim card now?

LB said...

I don't think most noticed that these still were Kate's words. Either Rob or Jon got the information off the hard drive. How are they doing to deny the beatings didn't happen?

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 97

Oh man he does say he will be a silent partner. Well, if those are verified, I stand corrected. Sad. I hope he tried all other avenues before resorting to a tell all.

Still doesn't change the fact that the abuse happened. Those babies were pulled by the hair and whipped into a crib, but that will get lost in who disclosed what.

************************************************


Exactly.

Jon & Kate deserve each other. I say, put them in a boxing ring, and let them beat the sh*t out of each other. They both suck.

The people I feel really sorry for, are those G-kids. Man, what are the odds of ending up with TWO immature parents.


Snickdog said...

The "texts" sound very stilted to me. We've heard Jon speak, we've seen how he tweets. To me, these sound so unlike Jon.

"No one will know. Rob is going to say he took it from our garbage." Was Jon still living there at that time--"our" garbage??

boo said...

The fans are of course saying Jon must have altered the journal entries, or maybe even wrote them himself. It would be easy to determine if they were altered after October 2009, but no way to tell who wrote them originally. The uber fans will hang on to that theory forever.

Formerly Duped said...

The whole Bullyville thing is a red herring for the RH book and also for media attention now that CWS is over and the cookbook awaiting its rise to the "New York Best Seller" list.

LB said...

Milo is now telling everyone that Jon 'modified and twisted' Kate's words in her journals. She even called him the devil...'The Devil's N the details Jon.' WOW.

Over And Out said...

No, no Jon was gone for a long time! I remember he not only went to New York but also Park City where he met a girl name Christie(?) and also was in LA where he was spotted at a Dodger game.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So Jon is supposed to sit at home like a hermit and not go to a Dodger's game, or have any kind of a social life? Got it. I think that after he put up with her controlling him for 10 years he was entitled.

Snickdog said...

Is it possible that this document is a fake and the purpose is to muddy the waters about Robert's book so that when it finally does come out, no one will believe any of it?

Kate can't deny what her journals say (well, I guess she could, but I think even she's smart enough to know that calling Hoffman a liar about the journals would not be in her best interest) So...she knows the book's coming out, what can she do? Tarnish Robert's reputation (and Jon's of course) by saying they were in cahoots the whole time.

This is not a court document, and BV doesn't really care about Robert's book, do they? They're getting the publicity they're after, these "texts" may have been fabricated, no one is going to remember that THEY were the ones who created them....meanwhile, Kate has (as I said) muddied the waters and thrown Jon under the bus as well.

I'm beginning to really doubt the validity of these texts.

But I've been known to be way off base before, so if/when they're proven to be authentic, I will sadly eat the proverbial crow.

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

"Still doesn't change the fact that the abuse happened. Those babies were pulled by the hair and whipped into a crib, but that will get lost in who disclosed what."

====================

IF she did it. Those might have been her words, but in reality did she really do that? Could be. But since she has a history of lying and embellishing and since no psychological exam has been done on her that we know of, how it it known that this was what she WANTED to do, thought about doing, or somehow embellished it for use in a book that was going to be published but never really did it? She's such a study into mental illness that nobody but Kate knows exactly what went on during that time.

Marie said...

I wonder of Bullyville realizes that with the release of this information, it pretty much confirms that Robert's book is factual and that Kate did abuse those poor kids. Will they now go after Kate the child abuser as their creed says they go after ALL child abusers?

Marie

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

Can't believe what Bullyville just put on TWitter. Those poor kids.

======================

He doesn't care about the kids. Kate doesn't care about the kids. Those two are out for revenge on Jon and they are going to get it come hell or high water...never mind who is hurt in the process. It will come back to haunt them.

Anonymous said...

Admin., if these messages are truly verified, can Jon face crimial charges from Kate and/or Robert? If so, would it theft of property in the amount of $1,000 or so?

And remember the article about Kate wanting to put Jon in jail over this. Well, the article said she couldn't find an attorney to do this. Wouldn't those messages from BV be enough proof to get a lawsuit against Jon?

These poor children are going to be so screwed up when they are able to surf the internet.
Leslie

Anonymous said...

Now I'm on the fence. The texts sound just a little too perfect. Too scripted. Usually jumping into a text conversation would be difficult but this one explains everything so perfectly. Right down to he must do this because Kate is evil. I wonder what Robert or Jon would say. The plot thickens!!

Marie said...

. .. 125

If they weren't true, I would assume Jon would come out and deny it.

Marie

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

I wonder of Bullyville realizes that with the release of this information, it pretty much confirms that Robert's book is factual and that Kate did abuse those poor kids.

==================

Just the opposite. What they will say is that if the two conspired and lied about where the information was obtained then anything is suspect and if Jon wanted revenge that badly, nothing in the book is credible because it could have been altered.

Marie said...

At this point, they might as well both come clean and address all of this. The stealing of the hard drive, why Jon would do this, were the diaries true.

Marie

LB said...

For these who has blackberry, does it send texts that has a subject for you to include whatever information the text is about? I'm asking because these looks alot like emails and I cannot remember if my blackberry did that.

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

The fans are of course saying Jon must have altered the journal entries, or maybe even wrote them himself. It would be easy to determine if they were altered after October 2009, but no way to tell who wrote them originally. The uber fans will hang on to that theory forever.

======================

But doesn't it really come down to one thing -- why didn't Kate scream "Lies, all lies" and turn around and sue Robert? She loves suing so much and this would have been one big case for her to win!

boo said...

Anonymous, good point. And it's rare you see someone text with full sentences, punctuation, no abbreviations. Hmm.

Anonymous said...

Those messages perfectly spell out the answer to the question whether Jon was involved. It is almost too perfect the way the messages so succinctly tell the story of the hard drive that everyone has been waiting for.I am not saying they are fake but is so creepy with all the exact details needed to answer any and all doubts about this situation.

Do these records look real to all of you. I don't have a cellphone or blackberry.

Now that Robert is caught being a liar about the book, a lot of info that is not verified by documents, journals, hard drive are not going to be believed by the general public. Not everything written in that book is backed up with proof. You have to have trust in an author when you read an unauthorized biography.

Leslie

Marie said...

==================

Just the opposite. What they will say is that if the two conspired and lied about where the information was obtained then anything is suspect and if Jon wanted revenge that badly, nothing in the book is credible because it could have been altered.
*************

Not true. There are ways to confirm if anything was altered.

Marie

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

Fleecing The Sheeple said... 129

I wonder of Bullyville realizes that with the release of this information, it pretty much confirms that Robert's book is factual and that Kate did abuse those poor kids.

==================

Just the opposite. What they will say is that if the two conspired and lied about where the information was obtained then anything is suspect and if Jon wanted revenge that badly, nothing in the book is credible because it could have been altered.

************************************************

Then why hasn't Kate flat out admitted that Robert Hoffman's book is a bunch of lies, or sued Robert for defamation of character?

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

The whole crux of this brouhaha is that Kate had it in her craw that Jon had something to do with her journal being passed onto Robert hands.

She never said that what was written was a complete LIE.

PatK said...

How does one obtain verification from a provider (Verizon in this case) that texts are legit without a subpoena? Do you have to have someone in your army who works inside and illegally provides the info for you?

Or can an "ex" source give permission to the phone provider to provide his/her own records which contain these texts?

I just don't see how one can get records like this legally without a subpoena.

Jane said...

Are these messages verified? They sound way too perfect and they don't sound like Jon. Not that I know him, but going by his speech mannerisms on the show and on various talk shows this just doesn't sound like him.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Kate abused the children. Her cruelty was seen on television and in person - many have reported her downright nastiness and cruelty.

There's a part of me that hopes Jon will come out blazing and deny and explain all this. The other part of me hopes, especially for the children, that he'll stay quiet and let this play out. Bottom line is that Kate continues to look like the bully she is.

JoyinVirginia said...

If there was money to be made from old texts, Kate Major or that other young woman would have sold this info long ago. Just sayin'!

Bored by Ms Kreider and chicken McNuggets.
NCAA basketball tonight, Louisville vs Michigan, the”Big Blue” team that wears the neon yellow uniforms, that no one has explained to me yet.

Anonymous said...

All of this is just pour madness. I don't understand either one of them.
If Jon knew of this journal all the way back during the divorce, why didn't he use it to get leverage with the judge?
If Kate knew Jon had stolen the computer and had this proof why didn't she go after Jon? Why didn't the book get stopped?

Crazy people are crazy.

AuntieAnn said...

Ex Nurse was right about BV carrying out their threat. However it doesn't change what was ON that hard drive.

Kate can thank McG for creating a diversion, but not much more. They're burning down the house to roast the pig.

chefsummer said...

No matter what Jon may have to he would be slammed.

If he kept quite about this and Robert worte the book on his own.

-Jon is a bad father thay should have protected his kids.

If he did help Robert write the book in some way.

-He betrayed the mother or his kids and is a hater is some way.

Jon can never win not matter what he does.

mamaK said...

Wait, Bullyville released emails from Jon? Where did he get the emails from? If Robert can't release emails because they are copy write protected, then how can Bullyville?

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

My question is, how can you damage a person that is already damaged?

Before the Gosselinbook came out, Kate was doing a wonderful job of destroying herself.

Gosselinbook just filled in the pieces of the nasty puzzle.

Sharon said...

I don't think for a moment that Jon or Robert altered Kate's words. You would have to be a psychological genius to get into Kate's head to do that.
All this just proves to me how hurt Jon was.. I think he stole her hard drive for proof that she was having an affair with Steve, then uh-oh, he finds WRITTEN proof that she abused the kids.
No wonder he went drinking...I'm surprised he didn't do worse.

Fueling The Flames said...

Sheeple are saying that everything in the book was altered or modified. The question is why would Robert and/or Jon do this, knowing quite well that Kate would have immediately sued the heck out of both of them for libel and conspiracy? Robert would have been crazy to do that, knowing that in a court of law anything that he claims to have come from Kate would be subject to verification.

In this day and age, there are all kinds of forensics and technology that can be used to determine if something is legitimate. I just can't imagine anyone being so stupid as to try to pass something off as "real" when they know darn well that it could be proven as fake.

Let's throw tomatoes said...

I'm confused, is that Bully saying the book is a lie or that Jon gave the info to Robert? I'm not going into his twitter, but if he put out the information that means that Robert didn't back off. Good for him!

That Bully just rubs me the wrong way! He is the ultimate bully! Someone needs to sue that guy. I was telling my hubby that he doesn't out that one person ,he really is outing the whole family kids and all! I know he would have a cow if someone did that to him.

As far as the media, they wanted to wine and dine Casey Anthony and America said no! I never want to see Kate Gosselin on television , or hear her voice on the radio!! America speak up! And if anyone says people don't care maybe they should! Child abuse is a terrible crime!

unbelievable! said...

who in the world keeps text messages from 2009???

Marie said...

It would be a good thing for this to go to court. Depose them all. Put them all under oath. The end.

Marie

Sherry Baby said...

Anonymous, good point. And it's rare you see someone text with full sentences, punctuation, no abbreviations. Hmm.

______________
If you go back and read some of Jon's statements he wrote early on when he was asking for support and donations, you will see that his grammar, spelling and punctuation were terrible. I wonder if anyone could pull up some of those. I remember thinking when I read them...gosh, he needs someone to do some proofreading!

Marie said...

If Kate doesn't take Jon to court for this, we will all know why.

Marie

Anonymous said...

So let me get this straight. Kate and her followers are angry at Jon because he wouldn't let Kate cover up the child abuse. Got it. Next?

OrangeCrusher1 said...

Kate's silence, via legal channels, speaks volumes. Whether Jon was complicit remains to be seen, or proved, but the queen of legal shutdowns is apparently not going in that direction. I think we all know she has no case. Involving BV may be the worst post-divorce decision she has made. No TLC to back her up, no legal 'team' pushing forward. By the time, if ever, she wakes up and thinks about the children, it will be too late. And Milo, STFU and get a life.

Terri said...

What I have to wonder about is where were these supposed texts way back when this book was first released. I would think that whoever had them (and if they are real, I firmly believe it was Haley)would have came out with them way back then. Something in this whole sordid mess stinks to the high heavens.

LB said...

I keep looking at the 'proof' Bullyville posted and I started thinking the SMS messages must be from whoever's cellphone Jon was sending them to or they were saved in a folder sent or received from same person. That is a string of messages from one day. I don't think it came from Jon's SIM card. The number all the messages say are from is Jon's number but has no 'To:' information. If it was from his phone then the information wouled have been resreved. I don't know if that makes sense but I am thinking the texts came from someone else's cell phone.

Marie said...

unbelievable! said... 149
who in the world keeps text messages from 2009???

****
The phone companies do. Chances are, Kate's name was on this account also and she was probably the one who got the messages from Verizon.

Marie

Snickdog said...

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle
Razzle dazzle 'em
Give 'em a show that's so splendiferous
Row after row will crow vociferous
Give 'em the old flim flam flummox
Fool and fracture 'em
How can they hear the truth above the roar?

Throw 'em a fake and a finagle
They'll never know you're just a bagel,
Razzle dazzle 'em
And they'll beg you for more!

Give 'em the old double whammy
Daze and dizzy 'em
Back since the days of old Methuselah
Everyone loves the big bambooz-a-ler
Give 'em the old three ring circus
Stun and stagger 'em
When you're in trouble, go into your dance

Though you are stiffer than a girder
They'll let you get away with murder
Razzle dazzle 'em
And you've got a romance

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle
Razzle dazzle 'em
Show 'em the first rate sorceror you are
Long as you keep 'em way off balance
How can they spot you've got no talent
Razzle Dazzle 'em

Razzle Dazzle 'em
Razzle Dazzle 'em

And they'll make you a star!

boo said...

Unbelievable -- my guess is a woman scorned -- think Haley or Kate Major. And she might not have actually saved them. She could have just authorized Verizon to release them to BV. Notice it's just what is received that is shown, not the outgoing messages. It's unreal what people are dumb enough to put in texts. Just ask Kwame Kilpatrick, the former Mayor of Detroit, who now sits in a federal prison.

Marie said...

Kate orchestrated this whole public outing of these text messages on Twitter. That is what is so disturbing. Here's my take. The words in the book are true, but she can't get the book pulled so she intends to discredit the book by releasing text messages to show that Jon did indeed colloborate with Robert, which proves Robert lied. Thus, discredits the book. The only problem is the hard drive was community property still back in 2009 so she can't say the hard drive was taken illegally and thus, again, can't get the book pulled. So we're back to discrediting Robert and her children will be the ones to suffer for all of this.

Marie

Sherry Baby said...

It sounds like those messages were scripted to fit the plan of making Jon look guilty. Something is very fishy about them. He spells out in detail what he plans to do...almost exactly what someone needs to prove he's guilty, as if someone wrote them just for the purpose of putting the story together word by word.

OrangeCrusher1 said...

Kate can thank McG for creating a diversion, but not much more. They're burning down the house to roast the pig.

Thanks Auntie Ann for once again saying it best!

Snickdog said...

Something tells me Robert's book is coming very soon....this was a desperate move on Kate's part (of course she will deny everything and just blame BV, and BV is enjoying all the publicity in the meantime)

It's well crafted...and it may work. The media may not jump on Robert's book now.

But it won't change the facts.

Michelle said...

Snickdog said... 113
And I'm beginning to not care one way or another.
______________________

Amen! There is one fact in this whole situation. Those kids got one shitty deal in the parent department. I would be shocked if any of them emerge as psychologically healthy adults.

Over And Out said...

If someone planned to do something sinister, would he text his plan to someone else, even saying what another person is going to say (lie) about where something was found? I can't imagine someone doing this. It's like putting a hit on someone through a text message. This makes no sense...

Ex Nurse said...

This is yet another sad day for the G8. I wanted to believe that the Jon was the saving grace as much as anyone here. Some of the posters here are bringing up statements from old girlfriends that now, in hindsight, tells this story--ex. Santoro's hacking statement.

I know that his supporters will feel betrayal and disillusionment--we have all invested considerable emotional energy in this family. It is hard to reconcile the Jon that people thought they knew and the one that plots revenge against his children's' mother.  I feel very sad. To those of us who have had relationships with people like Jon, this is not surprising.

In the same way that people have shared their narcissist stories, and say that no one can understand unless they have lived, I can say the same thing about a passive-aggressive personality. They are silent, but deadly and cause unimaginable damage.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that he isn't a great dad in the unconditional love department and he provides the much needed balance for his children. People are neither all good or all bad. I can't imagine what the contrast is like for those kids--the homes must be like day and night, Jeckyll and Hyde, up and down, black and white. There heads are probably spinning on a daily basis. 

I am having lots of issues with Blogger in the last day or so, too, Sue Buddy. Thanks for your response. 

I sincerely doubt that Bullyville went public with this without 100% authentication. They are extremely thorough and I don't think that they threaten until they have proof. 

So, quite a mess. 

Dutch Tulip said...

I think they're baiting Jon, hoping he opens his mouth and voila all attention is on Jon, poor guy can't do anything right.
( and if he opens his mouth and the sheeple start bashing and bullying will BV come to his rescue...probably not, he has no money, Kreider has!

Marie said...

Who advised Kate that this would be a good idea. Yowser.

Marie

Tucker's Mom said...

Let's throw tomatoes said... 102
No, no Jon was gone for a long time! I remember he not only went to New York but also Park City where he met a girl name Christie(?) and also was in LA where he was spotted at a Dodger game.
******
I don't buy the arguement (respectfully to you wonderful posters who do!) that Jon's physically being far, far away during non-custodial time was neither here nor there. Those kids were so young, so little and so hurt. Both Jon and Kate should have been mature enough to say "hey, if so and so is really hurting bad and just not coping, and needs to be with me, I'll come over and give him a hug or take him to my place"
The fact that Jon was obviously LOVING his "dual life" in the "city" where he "worked" and the "country" where he's "chill" just didn't sit well with me. I wanted to junk punch him, sitting there on his couch, looking baked/drunk, leaning back and treating this awful situation like it was Spring fricking Break.
Those of you who have been here a while know that I've come around to Jon, or I should say, back around, because I really liked him before the divorce. I just hated his Ed Hardy cod-piece-wearing douchebag phase.

White Organza said...

What's really intriguing in all this is the fact that basically when Bullyville started this latest "pissing contest" (like Ex-Nurse called it, lol...) with Robert Hoffman,claiming they had a trail of e-mail incriminating Jon, Robert more or less responded by a big "Bring it on!"... Surely he must've had know by then from where came his evidence?

And then, there's Sherri Baby's post: "If you go back and read some of Jon's statements he wrote early on when he was asking for support and donations, you will see that his grammar, spelling and punctuation were terrible. I wonder if anyone could pull up some of those. I remember thinking when I read them...gosh, he needs someone to do some proofreading!" It's a darn good observation.

So is Boo's remark: "And it's rare you see someone text with full sentences, punctuation, no abbreviations. Hmm..." Especially an IT specialist, like Jon.

As to who would be dumb enough as to try to pass something off as "real" when they know darn well that it could be proven as fake, I have two persons in mind: one CAN write, -she was a journalist-, but stupid enough to have a baby with Daddy Lohan. And the second one apparently is just plain stupid. But vindicative.

Still, I'm at lost with this whole farce. Nobody and nothing make sense anymore. It's trully one big mess.

Tucker's Mom said...

chefsummer said... 103
Kate was gone to Australia with Steve for how long?

She was gone doing her "Marathons" for how long?

Come on your going bust Jon out do Kate as well.
***
I agree here, too. It goes both ways. Kate's physically being so far away for sooooo long at a time was despicable, but you know, she'd been doing the part-time mom thing for years.

Snickdog said...

Over And Out said... 165

I know, right? And at that point Jon was a public figure--why on earth would he put something like that in writing? And why would this person stay silent all this time--even through the years where any dirt on the Gosselins meant big money. And if he did steal the hard drive, why isn't Kate saying so? In the ROL article on 10/15/2009 (one day after these texts were supposedly written) it has Stephanie Santoro accusing Jon of hacking into Kate's computer and phone....and here is Kate's reaction:

“Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin “hacked” into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them. Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right.”

You'd think she would have mentioned this, oh around 6 months ago, when Robert's book came out....

Paula said...

Boy, Kate REALLY doesn't want that book to come out does she?

A law firm told her she could not stop the book, so she goes the route of "scorched earth policy" on the father of her children. I have only pity for this woman.

Millicent said...

No, no Jon was gone for a long time! I remember he not only went to New York but also Park City where he met a girl name Christie(?) and also was in LA where he was spotted at a Dodger game.
**********************
At that point in time, Jon had very little custody time with his own children. So whatever he chose to do on his non-custodial time is his own business. What is so bad about going to New York, or meeting a girl (remember, they're getting a divorce by this point), or going to LA and watching a ball game?

Secondly, and this has been pointed out ad nauseum, that was for a brief wild period post-divorce. Ever since, he's pretty much been a home boy - trying to find steady work, and having a total of two long-term relationships. Jon is clearly a guy who likes being in a monogamous relationship. His with Ellen did not work out - but many relationships don't last the long run. Now he's been involved with the other lady for awhile, and he seems quite content. He's not off to New York, or Los Angeles, or wherever on the drop of a dime.

Why keep dredging up a brief period in the past when this man was going through that crazy post-divorce period?

As to BV posting text messages - I think McNiblets has more than one screw loose. I hope Jon is consulting with his own attorney on how to best handle the situation and getting some sound legal advice. That is what I would do if someone were posting my e-mails or text messages on-line.

Millicent said...

Is there always a Subject when sending a text? I've just never seen that--emails, yes. Texts, no. But I may be wrong obviously.

Some of the dialog sounds phoney..."I will put the nail in her coffin someday from it"....it just doesn't sound real to me. Also, why wait 3 years to put the nail in her coffin, after all she put him through between 2009 and 2012? If Jon had written a "tell all" during the peak of their popularity, he'd have made a fortune.
***
On my smart phone, there is no "re" line for text message. You just type in what you want to say to the receiver. Also, I usually abbreviate or otherwise keep the message short, not full sentences with punctuation, etc.

For those who are saying "Jon is just as bad as Kate," how about we wait a bit to see if these new allegations are proven. We know that McGibney doesn't hesitate to lie - example: the lie he told about being contacted by a lawyer representing Admin. So let's not be so quick to assume these texts are accurate or truthful, or something Jon texted/e-mailed to someone.

As another person pointed out, the wording and punctuation of these texts don't seem to match other things written by Jon in the past.

I'm going to just take a wait and see approach here. If Jon did take the hard drive or copy a hard drive from a computer within the home, pre-divorce, it's not illegal. That would have been considered community property I believe. So if he copied a hard drive from a computer within his own home, it's not illegal.

If he gave that hard drive info to Hoffman, I don't believe that's illegal either. If he did such a thing, could it be that he felt frustrated because CPS had done nothing about previous concerns for the possible child abuse taking place; that he felt overwhelmed and outgunned by TLC and their host of attorneys? That he wanted to preserve this information? I don't know the answers.

What I do know is that if I had a child being abused by his other parent, yet I was helpless to stop it, that the Court said I could only have visitation every other week-end, that the media painted me as worthless, shiftless and a cheater (when I was not), when every avenue I pursued seemed to lead to a dead end - AND then I come across a journal written by my spouse that gives details of some abusive behavior and other horrifying stuff -- well, I know I'd make a copy of that information. I absolutely would take a copy and I'd probably want a third person to see me do it or otherwise verify that I'd taken this information from this particular computer.

There will be no money made from this book. It's not going to be a best seller. If it ever gets back on Amazon, it might sell some copies but seriously folks - no one is going to be raking in the money on this book.

We saw Kate being verbally and physically abusive to those children - it's on the show. We saw Jon being the parent who provided hugs, kisses, playfulness and love to the children. I think for me, that's really the bottom line.

I will never say that those two are exactly the same. Because they aren't. Jon is a flawed human who made the incredibly unfortunate mistake of falling for Kate's charm, then being brow-beaten into submission. Kate is so flawed that she is rather in-human. She cares only for herself, and will use her children as pawns to get what she wants. They are not the same, they never were, and they never will be.

Tucker's Mom said...

terri said... 112
Now the sheeple are saying that Jon and Robert altered Kate's journal and added and or removed text. My god if this were true Kate would have been denying this a long time ago.
******
It would take a HUGE set of cajones for Robert to basically ask Kate to call him a liar IF the text was altered. I don't believe the journal was altered in any way, shape or form. I believe those are all Kate's own words.
I do wonder if Robert will basically say, "hey, you're dragging me through the mud and I'm going to make good on my promise".
I HATE draggin Robert or Jon into this publicly, but I think it may be time to speak up on their own behalves. They both are getting smeared in public for quite a long time and the allegations are ratcheting up day after day.

Somewhere In Time said...

In addition to grifting, Kate's really good at something else -- stirring up drama and then stepping back to watch everything unfold.

Vanessa said...

"IF she did it. Those might have been her words, but in reality did she really do that?"
****************************************
I bet the kids could confirm if she did, in reality, did do "that".

Snickdog said...

One more thing....if we are to believe that Kate wrote her journals as a way of taking notes for the book that Beth wrote, then it goes to suggest that Beth has read the journals and can vouch for their authenticity.

To call Robert a liar and sue him, Kate would open herself up to Beth being deposed.

And if Beth read those journals and still wrote the book and continued to have a friendly relationship with Kate--up until the skiing trip--then it makes me wonder just what it was that DID put Beth over the edge? She disappeared from that episode and from their lives pretty quickly--makes me think she knows something, and if she needed to testify in Robert's defense, well, who knows what secrets she would spill!

More than once during this saga have I thanked the Lord for my mediocre life....

AuntieAnn said...

OrangeCrusher1 said... 154
I think we all know she has no case. Involving BV may be the worst post-divorce decision she has made. No TLC to back her up, no legal 'team' pushing forward.

====

Yes, I wonder if she was getting so unmanageable Laverne and Shirley quit on her. Or maybe she dropped them. She does have a history of getting rid of anyone who doesn't know how to help her. Turning to Thugville is a pretty desperate measure. Can't wait to see what happens when they are of no use to her anymore.

Melissa NV said...

Why keep dredging up a brief period in the past when this man was going through that crazy post-divorce period?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Exactly...and then saying he abandoned his kids. That's just ridiculous.

chefsummer said...

They keep bring up Jon's past cause it all they have on him.

Winsomeone said...

"Bored by Ms Kreider and chicken McNuggets.
NCAA basketball tonight, Louisville vs Michigan, the”Big Blue” team that wears the neon yellow uniforms, that no one has explained to me yet. "

They are the maize and blue, thus the yellow instead of white for home uniforms.

Tucker's Mom said...

Millicent said... 173
No, no Jon was gone for a long time! I remember he not only went to New York but also Park City where he met a girl name Christie(?) and also was in LA where he was spotted at a Dodger game.
**********************
At that point in time, Jon had very little custody time with his own children. So whatever he chose to do on his non-custodial time is his own business. What is so bad about going to New York, or meeting a girl (remember, they're getting a divorce by this point), or going to LA and watching a ball game?
*****
What is so bad is that Jon should have been focusing all of his time, attention and money on making sure that he secured a decent home for his kids, no matter what % he had custody.
Bleeding money into a NYC apartment was foolish and immature. Spending money flying to CA, Utah and Hawaii was indulgent at best.
For chrissakes, he had a 1 bedroom apartment for a while! WTF is up with that when you've got 8 kids?
It goes both ways. If Kate is pissing money away on spa treatments and hair salon trips to NYC, then it's still not right. It was and is wrong for both Jon and Kate to live so high on the hog when they've got 8 kids to raise up and school.
That said, I'm glad now Jon has a home that suits having his kids visit. It should have been that way from the beginning.
And remember Kate saying (probably lying, but..) that she would pick the kids up if they wanted to come home? Well, I don't know how EITHER OF THEM could do that when they're thousands of miles away.
Just because it's not your custody time doesn't mean that things won't come up and you NEED TO BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT.

Amy2 said...

Robert just publish the book, already. Last time you had a count down on your blog. This time silence. Is it coming out tomorrow or a year from now?

boo said...

Winsome, I'm a proud Wolverin, but I hate those uniforms. The only explanation I've heard is that it is all about television and marketing. They started calling for "maize outs" at the Big House, because all of that yellow shows up on tv so much better than a sea of blue. It then moved to basketball. The neon is the marketing angle. They aren't trying to sell to old farts like me. The younger set loves the bright neon, or gold shoes, or combat uniforms. The flashier the better. They sell like crazy. Me, I'll stick with the old Block M flag on my front porch. Hail to the Victors!

Melissa NV said...


More than once during this saga have I thanked the Lord for my mediocre life....

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

And then the sheeple keep playing the jealousy card. Non-fans are just jealous. Right. I'd really want to be in her shoes right now.
Not only that, but someone on Twitter says that Jon wanted to expose Kate because he was jealous. Of what? Of whom?

Sometimes you try to get into their brains to figure out how in the world they come up with this stuff. Then you realize that the sheeple brain lacks any capability of logical thinking that nobody other than another sheeple could possibly figure out what's up there in those cells.

Then there's Milo. An entity unto itself.

foxy said...

Didn't Jon say years ago that Kate never backed up her computer files so he always made backup discs for the info on their computers. I don't think Jon wrote those emails or texts. It sounds like someone is trying to besmearch Robert by saying, "he was the guy at the diner that you thought was gay". The wording does not sound like him and none of it makes sense. This is quite the soap opera playing out here.

Remona Blue said...

Sue Buddy said... 62
''To MJ and Ex-Nurse, I wanted to let you both know that I didn't ignore your comments to me yesterday. I replied to both of you around 10:30 am. By 4 pm my comments still had not shown up. When I got back home around 9 pm I saw they'd finally arrived!''..........I don't know if it's a Blogger problem or something with my browser. For me it seemed to become problematical when we went to moderation.''
~~~~~~~~~~~
OK....as everyone knows, I am computer semi-literate, but I have a theory about the problem w/comments time-lag....and I think there is a combination of things causing the problem. I don't know how to speak 'computer', so I hope someone that understands how things work will figure out what I'm talking about.

I believe the problem is only partly due to waiting for the comment to be approved. I think that when Admin embeds a video at the beginning of the topic, your computer 'reads' the video, and then all the comments made, and then puts your comment on the blog.

The Kind Hearted Woman topics had two ?videos? totaling 5 hours. That is a lot for your computer to scan...and then when you add in pages of comments with over a thousand comments, it takes even longer.

Depending on how fast your computer is, it can take hours for it to go through everything before FINALLY posting your comment.

Anyone understand what I'm trying to say? Does it make sense? Could THAT be the problem?

hmmmm said...

hmmm first Jon says Kate is a good mom before she goes on DWS, then he tries to get custody. Jon says Kate wants him to go to jail for child support, and we find out he does not pay anymore.
Then, right before the "book" comes out by Robert, Jon goes silent, nary a peep from him since. Sounds very fishy...IMO

Remona Blue said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 76
''The real question here is how are 80 people being duped so easily. This is never going to happen.''
~~~~~~~~~~~
You're right. That shit ain't happening!!

JoyinVirginia said...

Thanks four the info winsome one! That yellow is a bit more intense than I would expect from maize. Maize sounds so conservative.

hmmmm said...

If everything in that book is true, wouldn't a decent person keep fighting for their kids and not play games with a count down on a book and
all that crap?

Remona Blue said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 100
''Oh man he does say he will be a silent partner. Well, if those are verified, I stand corrected. Sad. I hope he tried all other avenues before resorting to a tell all.
Still doesn't change the fact that the abuse happened. Those babies were pulled by the hair and whipped into a crib, but that will get lost in who disclosed what.''
~~~~~~~~~~
Well...for ME the bottom line is that what this has done is to PROVE that the abuse DID happen. I really do not care how the information got out there.


chefsummer said...

So Roberts gay now????

Guess the fans can't say he wanted KK and she turned him down since he's gay (now).

LeeLee said...

To Tucker's Mom... 184
I felt the same way about Jon appearing to leave his kids behind at that time, traveling a lot and getting a one bedroom apartment in NYC. I thought, and commented here, that it sure didn't appear that he was concerned with his kids at all. Another poster responded, someone who seemed to have some personal knowledge of the situation, that it was at that time that Jon and Kate were taking turns at the mansion. S/He suggested that Jon trusted Kate to keep her word that the house was for the kids and they would swap time at the house instead of moving the kids around. That's why he got the one-bedroom; he never thought she'd go back on that agreement and thus didn't need space for 8 kids. Also, that was the summer he was getting paid for doing the Vegas pool party and was working on a divorced celebrity dad show with Michael Lohan. He also trusted that he was popular and liked enough to continue in TV on his own, thus he spent $ like he was going to keep making it.
Hope this helps offer other reasons for his actions that summer.

Over And Out said...

MiIoandJack ‏@shatzy8 1m
@ashymama2 @The_Stir @MiloandJack @kateplusmy8 Understandable that Jon said "I DISPISE KATE" Now TLC crew should come forward! #TruthRules

Oh, Milo. Be careful what you wish for. The crew could very well be called to testify as to the child abuse they saw.

Mel said...

In the same way that people have shared their narcissist stories, and say that no one can understand unless they have lived, I can say the same thing about a passive-aggressive personality. They are silent, but deadly and cause unimaginable damage.

True enough. Remember in one of the later interviews Jon said something about he had done things to Kate that he wouldn't want done to him.

At the time, that didn't make a lot of sense. But maybe this is what he was referring to....who knows.

Whether true or not, I feel so bad for those kids to have their stupid parents' lives played out in a public forum for the whole world to see, comment, judge.

Remona Blue said...

Millicent said... 175
~~~~~~
Millicent...I agree with every word! (How many times have is said that to your comments? I seem to be following you around and saying ''I agree'', don't I?)

Let's throw tomatoes said...

I don't care who Jon was seeing! Or that it was or wasn't his custody time only that he left his kids with that abusive monster.Period!

I only brought it up because it was the topic of the moment . I also said that the kids adore Jon! And Kate not so much.

Oh, I'm addressing this comment to Millicent! I need to get of the web I'm not feeling well today and I might lose my cool! LOL

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