Sunday, November 18, 2012

Real Mothers: The Dust Bowl, Part 1 “The Great Plow up”

“She never had a lot, but she always made sure we had something. She didn't eat sometimes, but she made sure us children ate. That's one thing she did do.” ~daughter of Migrant Mother

Discuss PBS’s The Dust Bowl, airing November 18th and 19th. Check local listings. Pre-order on DVD/Blu-ray here


Unidentified mother and her seven children, courtesy of Library of Congress.
It was our nation’s longest, deadliest environmental disaster and representative of the nationwide economic crisis. But the Dust Bowl of the 1930’s often merits no more than a few lines in the history books. Acclaimed film director Ken Burns (The Civil War) delves deeper into this troubled time, tracking down survivors to preserve their often heartbreaking, always courageous stories on film. The American dream had never been so shattered, but the unlikely heroes were the women and children. The mothers, grandmothers, sons and daughters who kept their families together while the men tried to make sense of the land or scrounge for low-paying jobs elsewhere. We watch for their stories in particular tonight.

 

198 sediments (sic) from readers:

localyocul said...

Ooooh this looks GOOD! I am fascinated by this time period.

Jane said...

Big Ken Burns fan here - don't think I've missed any of his works. I have a busy day here, not sure I'll be watching tonight but the DVR is set and I'll just scroll through any spoilers and look forward to the discussion.

Kate? She'll think 'dust bowl?' Where's the damn Mrs. Cleaning Woman!

She's come undone said...

Really looking forward to this! But wait, is that a picture of a mother with 7 count 'em 7 kids living in that tiny house? Gee, I thought that was impossible according to Kate.

Improbable Dreams said...

Anyone remember the TV mini-series, CENTENNIAL? I doubt I'll ever erase from my mind the Dust Bowl scenes. Definitely worth watching! I don't want to give any spoilers, but there's a powerful, unforgettable build-up to a mother's ultimate breakdown.

Dust, everywhere, untameable and relentless. She's ironing one day, dust swirling around her feet and the ironing board, and she ultimately realizes the futility of doing the laundry--a simple task that wrings everything out of her, but ultimately needs doing again when the dust seeps under the door.

And then...well I'll just say that a whole lot of craziness ensues. Intense! I wish I could find that exact scene online, to link here for our discussion.

Wowser said...

I lived in oklahoma for 3 years and it is NOT a fun place to live. The people are wonderful and I made lifelong friends but the climate sucks! It's humid and windy and the bugs are as bug as your hand...tarantulas and scorpions! Yuk! The tornado seasons are scary!! It is not a state that I miss that's for sure

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

My God. What those people went through.
I am looking forward to watching this documentary.

Have a good Sunday, everyone.

foxy said...

It is nice to see that this blog will stay after Kate Gosselin goes away. There are so many interesting subjects to discuss and all the people in this "community" are wonderful and great to hear from. I am looking forward to this discussion. I also love the Civil War topics. There was a series on TV a few years ago with mournful music in the background while the narrator was talking about specific events. For the life of me I cannot remember the name of that series.

Formerly Duped said...

I'm also looking forward to this doc- I like docs in general.

I see that the mothers and women of the family kept things together- like to see Kate do that under the circumstances.Even my own mother would also give us the best/biggest/only one when it came to food and treats and we were not poor like these poor victims of the dust bowl.Mothers are, or should be, like that.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Thank you foxy and thanks for sticking around!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


Really looking forward to this! But wait, is that a picture of a mother with 7 count 'em 7 kids living in that tiny house? Gee, I thought that was impossible according to Kate.

&&&

Count them! It's seven! There were dozens of photos to choose from of a mother with a lot of kids, which is what I was looking for. I chose this one for the peaceful, content expression on her face. Her kids are bear-foot and wearing patched clothes and they are obviously poor, but here is a mother beaming with pride over them--combing their hair, washing their faces, pulling her daughter's hair back with a nice clean kerchief. Lovingly cuddling the baby to he belly. You can see the love she has for them and it's inspiring.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Pulling this over from the other thread but Greedy Gosselins it sounds like you are living in a community property state where everything is more or less split 50-50. You are basing your assumptions that everything was split down the middle.

Terri is right we talked about this a lot. Pennsylvania is not a community property state. A judge can split things 99 to 1 if he wants to. We don't know what happened, but I've said more than once my best guess, based on the clues. Jon and Kate settled a complicated, contentious divorce VERY QUICKLY. Absurdly quickly. I was shocked. My guess is that Team Kate gave him a low-ball offer. Jon, just wanting it all OVER with (and I can't blame the guy), took the money and ran. At the time, there were a lot of opportunities or potential opportunities on his plate and I think he didn't fully anticipate how much TLC would try to derail them, how much Kate and TLC's relentless quest to paint him as a deadbeat would affect future job opportunities, or how hard it would be to keep making the kind of money he used to be making. He thought he could keep on rolling in what he used to do, and that worked for a few months, but simply wasn't sustainable and the divorce money ran out quickly.

Had he been able to foresee the future I'm guessing this divorce would have dragged on a lot longer as he fought for what was his.

SeeSaw said...

Formerly - I totally agree.

The one incident that showed me Kate's true colors was the lollipop in NY. Yes it was just a lollipop and not a big deal, but what mother ever gives a child a broken treat and keeps the best for herself.

Set my DVR and looking forward to learning more about this time in our history.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

I find this to be one of the most fascinating times in "recent" history; the dust bowl, depression and then WWII. Our parents/grandparents lived through a lot. Nowadays people are concerned about getting the latest iPhone.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Tweet I agree and I need only hear stories from my grandfather who grew up on a farm in the 30's to put it all in perspective.

This kind of thing is so very important for that perspective. I try to be very aware of not just my roots but how many other people have to live even today, and I think that's why Kate's greedy and gluttony has really irked me sometimes. So many people, both back then and even today, live on so much less and made it through. And like that women in the photo, are happy and prideful too.

She wants her children's lives on a "golden platter" because they "deserve it." What about everyone else? They don't deserve the same? Everyone wants that for their kids but not everyone can have it. And it's not worth it what she had to do to get it. The migrants picking apples in the field may not make much but at least they can pick those apples with dignity. This 15 Minutes obsession and make a buck quick attitudeis pathetic and really, embarrassing. I'd like to think a lot of people don't have that attitude at all, but I'm not sure anymore.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Admin, "This 15 Minutes obsession and make a buck quick attitudeis pathetic and really, embarrassing. I'd like to think a lot of people don't have that attitude at all, but I'm not sure anymore."
__________________________________________

It IS embarrassing. I think sometimes people from those times must be rolling over in their graves at what is available to people now and how horribly spoiled we as a society must seem.

I saw a documentary a while back about young boys during the depression, some not even teens yet, who took to jumping freight trains in order to try and find work. The "hobos" took them under their wings and showed them the ropes.

It's good to remember where we came from. Of course some we can think of don't stop to do that or maybe lack the empathy necessary to be in awe of what past generations lived through.

Ally said...

People have been talking about divorce of J/K and I wanted to share my own experience with a bitter divorce. Now I believe TLC purchased their home. I base that on Roberts book and Kate's emails to TLC, demanding the need for a new home, now. If that is the case, there would be no mortgage and they decided the house was for the kids and which ever parent had primary custody, would then get the home. Just guessing though. Now if there was a mortgage, usually you can sell the home, and any profit is split. If there was a loss, they would owe equally, I think. Now, she could also refinance to remove his name from the mortgage. That is what we did. I kept the home because I made more than my ex and I could afford to keep the mortgage, he could not. He was not bought out in any way. The goal is to refinance to get him off the mortgage, but because we bought in 2005 with the booming housing market, in 2009/2010, the house is now in the red. I cannot refinance because of it. So although we are divorced, we are both still on the mortgage. That's how I interpret that. How true it is for them, don't know.
One more thing, speaking of children praising their parents. Remember Kate on the show telling us how one of the tups said to her when they brought them to the house for the first time, oh thank you mommy, very breathlessly. They were 4 at the time. What child at age 4 thanks mommy for a new house. As soon as she said that I thought, yeah right!

Vanessa said...

She most likely had more children after yhis photo was taken.

Buttercup said...

Real reality http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=4mbqHsObQ5s

Just like KK says "the realist reality show"

chefsummer said...

Buttercup said... 18
Real reality http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=4mbqHsObQ5s

Just like KK says "the realist reality show"
*************

HA this is sooooo Kate.

Also once Robert expose how many takes or re-shoots they did on the show.

I couldn't believe Kate said that the show was the realist of real.

Really Kate then why so make re-takes if you're so real?

butterfly said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 14
This 15 Minutes obsession and make a buck quick attitudeis pathetic and really, embarrassing. I'd like to think a lot of people don't have that attitude at all, but I'm not sure anymore.
----------------------------------------
I can't stand the make a quick buck attitude- yeah, making a nice salary is nice, but whatever happened to the ethic of honest, hard work? Earning one's pay? My mom raised me w/the saying "Hard work is good far ya!" Sometimes I wanted to smack her, LOL, but I grew up putting my fullest efforts into my jobs. Then I have to work with so many people who come to work, dont want to put in any effort, and just take home a pay check. Gimme a break!! I cant stand people like Kate, people who dont want to work and still expect to have all the good things in life. It speaks volumes to their character.

Bearswife said...

I'm looking forward to this documentary. Ken Burns is the real deal!
My father-in-law was 10 when the stock market crashed, he loved to tell us about the depression. Such fascinating stories.
The mother of a good friend of mine grew up in rural Minnesota close to the railway tracks. As a girl it was not uncommon to have a hobo doing odd jobs around their property - just for food to eat and to sleep in the barn.

Times are tough now, as well. But so many people still seem concerned with superficial things.

Ally said...

Butterfly...
I know exactly what you are talking about. I've experienced it first hand. It makes your job that much harder when your coworkers don't do their job.

Formerly Duped said...

Good work ethic, earning what you have and not expecting all the material possessions in the world seem far in the past for many in this country. And days of the Depression and the great wars are being forgotten as older veterans die, and young people have no idea their legacy of freedom and hard work. I find Black Friday sales rather depressing- if you can't afford basic things , maybe you don't need a huge screen TV from WalMart...

Bearswife said...

Formerly Duped 23,
I'm in complete agreeance with you.

butterfly said...

whoa, whoa, whoa, Formerly Duped! Do you mean that a large, (and I am adding) flat screen TV isn't a basic item, a necessity? :)

Lynn said...

To all the posters on this blog: Happy Thanksgiving! I am so thankful for my family and friends and look forward to preparing a wonderful holiday meal with all our traditional foods. I also wish the Gosselin children will find a holiday filled with love from their parents and extended family. Thanks to all who post their wonderful and caring comments and for Admin and her staff for all the work they do. Enjoy!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

We are a society that encourages debt. A mortgage is one thing, but a flat screen tv? The people who came before us didn't buy things they couldn't afford or if they did faced the consequences. There's no consequences anymore. If you run into difficulties don't worry, there's always a bail out. There really weren't those safety nets back then and people adjusted accordingly.

Bearswife said...

OT!
Someone here mentioned they make a Limoncello cranberry sauce - could that lovely lady give me the recipe? This transplanted American is making Thanksgiving dinner (again!) and I want to try it out.
I've been planning this since Canadian Thanksgiving, and am really looking forward to it. I'm going to make all the classics, my grandpa's italian sausage stuffing, green bean casserole, corn pudding as well as gravy, mashers, etc. The Bear has mentioned tomato aspic - which his mum always made - so I am going to look for a recipe for that also. Plus the Bear specially requested pumpkin pecan pie. OY!

JoannaNY said...

I am really looking forward to this. I had a student who wrote a very comprehensive paper on this topic in conjunction with reading we were doing on Steinbeck. Farmers migrated west, only to find that more than 20,000 people were competing for 800 jobs that were available. The migrants who fled to California were pitted against the local property owners. The small towns that grew up when the migrant workers fled and found encampments among the homeless and starving were called Hoovervilles, named after the President who was blamed for the Depression.

If anyone finds this period of history fascinating, read The Grapes of Wrath. It really puts things into perspective.

Pity Party said...

Tweedle Dee - about the trains my father did that. He was very young, maybe 10 to 12 years old. His dad was very violent and was attacking my father's mom and the kids were all afraid that he was going to kill her that time (my aunt told me this at his funeral). My father picked up a chair and knocked him out cold; he was just a little kid. He was forced to leave thereafter, and he hopped on a train and rode the rails until he was able to come back as a man and join the Navy. This was during the depression era and WWII. My kids know more about this part of his life than I ever did as he was very stoic, and seldom shared much of anything about himself that would provoke emotion with us kids. We knew about it and were proud of him for it, but no details. I was never afraid of anything as long as my father was around - not even a tornado.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Seesaw that broken lollipop was so symbolic of everything we've ever seen. The best and shiniest and most perfect belong to Kate. The broken and castoffs the kids can have, boys first.

butterfly said...

I had to read Grapes of Wrath in 8th grade. I'll be honest- bored me to tears. I wish Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged had been on the required reading instead, that would, to me, have been far more interesting. I am just not a Steinbeck fan, or Pearl S. Buck. Or, maybe 8th grade was a bad time to be introduced to those authors- I won't discount that theory.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Butterfly 8th grade is pretty young to read that. That's a deep complex book. You have to understand the history first. I didn't read it until 11th grade honors English.

readerlady said...

Just a very quick drive-by. I'm not going to be able to watch tonite, but I've got my DVR set and hope to watch tomorrow morning. I'm looking forward to it. Burns is a class act all the way, and this doc. should be fascinating. I'm a history nerd (well, I should be, since it was one of my majors, LOL), but I confess I don't know as much as I should about this era of Am. History.

Improbable --I love "Centennial". I own the DVD set to it and watch periodically. The Dust Bowl segment was chilling. That one scene of the dust cloud closing in on the town was scary. I agree that the inexorable build to the woman's breakdown was brilliant.

I use a hot glue gun when I make jewelry sometimes. I got a cheapie one at one of the Dollar store and it works fine. If you are going to be using it frequently or for extended periods of time, you may want to get a cheap ceramic trivet to use as a stand for it. I found one at a flea market for $.25 and it works fine. The glue drippings can be peeled off, and it insulates it so you don't have to worry about it overheating or starting a fire or burning something. If you're just using it for short periods, the sturdy cardboard wrapped in aluminum foil should be fine.

She's come undone said...

I regret more than I can say how much I disliked history class back during school days. Nowadays it's as if I can't get enough!

Pity Party said...

I read Grapes of Wrath; I couldn't put in down. I would like to read it again as I was very young the first time. I love John Steinbeck. I read of Mice and Men when I was young too and would love to read it again. Wasn't there another, East of Eden or something like that?

OT, but speaking of books one of my favorites that has stayed with me was Watership Down (Richard Adams). It was so well written that I thought and felt like a rabbit when I was reading it. It was like the depression era for rabbits. They colonize and the colonies are very structured.

readerlady said...

ARGGGGHHHHH!! I keep hitting publish too soon. Re Jon's part of the divorce settlement. I read, and I don't know if this is accurate or just speculation -- that KK was required to buy out his share of the house, but that he had to put the money in a trust account to pay child support, and that KK was awarded most of the money, despite the fact that Jon had been equally involved in the show and the work. I guess the reasoning was that she needed the money more because she was awarded primary physical custody of the kids. Jon also set up trust funds for the kids that are 3rd party administered and neither he nor KK can touch.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

East if Eden is fantastic. Even before it was an Oprah book club selection.

readerlady said...

Sorry to keep posting, but the polls are out. Notre Dame is #1!!!!!!!!!! Go IRISH!! 'Bama is #2. Soooooo --Baylor knocked Kansas out of the #2 spot, but it hardly seems fair that the Tide are ranked ahead of the Aggies.

Pity Party said...

I don't think they have the kids read the classics anymore. My son's teacher was sending him home with the Hardy Boys to read and write about in 5th grade. I think we read Tale of Two Cities in the 5th grade. He is in 9th grade and has never studies the classics. I ordered some of the Great Literature Classics and hopefully one day he will read them on his own. I look for them on E-Bay and get them very cheaply. He had a book report to do on a story not long ago, and I helped him with it to get him interested. It was about 2 men and others who were great hunters and killed just about all of the big prey. They were gathering on a private island for a great hunt and turns out they were to be hunting one another, preying on humans. The winner was to get the island (if they got him). The book ended with the one man sleeping in the other man's bed and the presumption was to be that he had killed him and in fact was the winner. I was astounded.

butterfly said...

Admin
yes, mine was an honors, class, too. We did read some books that I enjoyed, but those two authors were not among them :)
The Catcher in the Rye was my favorite that year. Then in 9th grade we focused on Shakespeare, and because it was honors, we read more than the non-honors, so it was all Shakespeare, all the time. I guess it was ok.

Remona Blue said...

Commenting before I read any comments.

I am really looking forward to this. My siblings and I grew up listening to stories from my Mother and Grandmother, who lived in Oklahoma during this time. My children's father was born in California, due to his parents and maternal and fraternal grandparents migrating from Oklahoma. Their story was very much like Grapes of Wrath, which I read at least once a year!

Parent In Lancaster County said...

I regret more than I can say how much I disliked history class back during school days. Nowadays it's as if I can't get enough!

---------------

I wonder why that is. History was my least favorite subject, and now I find myself searching the history channels on a daily basis. The Civil War is my passion, and living so close to Gettysburg, we're always doing day trips there. I never get tired of it. Just to walk that battlefield and imagine what took place there on those brutally hot July days is something that everyone should experience. We have a wonderful Civil War museum in Harrisburg. I can spend a day in there.

http://www.nationalcivilwarmuseum.org/

Concerned Person said...

We have wonderful American writers: Steinbeck, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, etc., and it's surprising how little they are read. Mark Twain was one of the greatest writers.

Instead of Ipads,computers,cell phones, everyone should have a book in their hands. No TV, not necessary when you have wonderful music and beautiful books in your life. No to the big screen TV, what is the real purpose? My parents, if alive today, would just say that so much is wasted on instant gratification based on a lack of something within theirselves. They came to this country and worked so hard on farms, sleeping under kitchen tables, picking veggies and fruits from sun up to sun down. I think of what I am buying everytime I go into a store. My main expense is contributing food to the homeless shelter near me, helping to pack boxes now for those in shelters in N.NJ who are living in shelters. As my dear friend who lost her home at 83, still works p/t, I don't miss anything but being able to sit in my chair and read a book. She took everything not destroyed to an outdoor flea market yesterday to sell. I went there to buy and it was a very windy cold a.m. out in a field among others who established a flea mkt to sell what they have. FEMA offered her $300, no insurance agent until 2 weeks from last tuesday. She has no big screen TV. Some people have very little, they worked during times when there were no big pensions, 401k', IRAs and went to work everyday with the thought they had some place to put their head at night. Not everyone today has too much, some have never had anything. Our economy is not like it was years ago in the 90s and all of us have to be aware of someone in our neighborhood who is starving. Please help someone with canned goods, go thru your cabinets, those extra cans of soup, they mean the world to a family or even a single person who is too proud to ask. Thank you for your time.

Dwindle said...

Improbable Dreams said... 4
Anyone remember the TV mini-series, CENTENNIAL?
444444444444


ME ME ME!!!! In fact I have the series on old VHS tapes! I loved that series!


There was a short PBS broadcast a few years ago, I think on The American Experience, about the dust bowl. Children were dying of pnuemonia from just breathing the sand/dirt/air. Families were begging friends/ extended family to take guardianship of their children just to get them out of the area. Some were lucky enough to be sent east but never saw parents and siblings again. Children were having stomach problems too, from ingesting sand and dirt. If I recall correctly there is still evidence to this day of dirt from the west that blew it's way to the farms of Ohio and Pa and even into the Atlantic ocean. I am really looking forward to this series!

I wonder if that woman in the above posted pic demanded loudly that the government immediatly conquer nature and a century of misguided farming all because she had SEVEN COUNT EM SEVEN children and DAMN IT! they want pancakes for breakfast! And mother demands hot sugar milk coffee now!

#Superfundustbowl? Was it really worth missing TWO days of school?

Parent In Lancaster County said...

He had a book report to do on a story not long ago, and I helped him with it to get him interested. It was about 2 men and others who were great hunters and killed just about all of the big prey.

---------------------

Was it "The Most Dangerous Game?" There was an online article about a Colorado mom who wants it banned in her son's 8th grade class.

Dwindle said...

readerlady said... 34

Improbable --I love "Centennial". I own the DVD set to it and watch periodically.


44444444444444

DVD?!? I only have the VHS. All hail my friend readerlady! You rock!

Luckily for me, I still have a VHS player that works!

~~~


Re Ken Burns: I too very much enjoy his work. I can find some minor faults with some of his pieces but not much to my untrained eye. The only series I grew to intensly dislike was "Baseball". The first several episodes were grand and then suddenly it became all New York, all Boston, all the time oh and by the way some team in Ohio, Wisconsin, Texas, whatever, won the world series that year. But all of the last several episodes were nothing but a play by play of the seasons of the New York teams and Boston team, even though other teams were expanding, setting records, having tragedies, winning World Series, etc, and no one even got a mention. I will never watch it again.

AuntieAnn said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 14

Tweet I agree and I need only hear stories from my grandfather who grew up on a farm in the 30's to put it all in perspective.

This kind of thing is so very important for that perspective. I try to be very aware of not just my roots but how many other people have to live even today, and I think that's why Kate's greedy and gluttony has really irked me sometimes. So many people, both back then and even today, live on so much less and made it through. And like that women in the photo, are happy and prideful too.

She wants her children's lives on a "golden platter" because they "deserve it." What about everyone else? They don't deserve the same? Everyone wants that for their kids but not everyone can have it. And it's not worth it what she had to do to get it. The migrants picking apples in the field may not make much but at least they can pick those apples with dignity. This 15 Minutes obsession and make a buck quick attitudeis pathetic and really, embarrassing. I'd like to think a lot of people don't have that attitude at all, but I'm not sure anymore.
=====
I c/p your whole post because it's worthing repeating and ditto-ing. (if that's a word?)
My parents both grew up on farms during the thirties, literally dirt-poor.
As I was growing up yhere didn't seem to be a day go by that the topic of the depression came up one way or another at the supper table. It scarred them both deeply, but left them with an appreciation of everything they did have. To this day my widowed 85 year-old-mother plants a big garden because as she says "it could happen again, you know". She cans and freezes food enough for an army. Even though she has money now she spends it cautiously...uses things up, wears it out, wastes nothing.

I told her about the Dust Bowl on PBS tonight and she said she wasn't sure she wanted to see it all again...testament to how awful it really was.

LeeLee said...

Good Afternoon, everyone. DVR is set to record tonight. Watched Grapes of Wrath last weekend. First saw the film in high school film class, and was so moved I bought the book and have reread it a number of times since. The movie version is really, truly amazing as a film and as an adaptation to the book. In this case, go see the movie if you are less inclined to read, although there are a few edits in the film which leave out some of the most poignant scenes from the book.

Admin, kudos for your choice of photo for this topic. There are innumerable women and mothers in our country's history and in modern society who are worthy of admiration and emulation, but the likes of Kate Gosselin and Kris Jenner are the women who get all the attention and notoriety. I, for one, welcome a break from Kate, and a chance to discuss truly inspirational and awe-inspiring stories of real super-moms.

Dwindle said...

Classics read in school: My favorite was For Whom the Bell Tolls and also the two versions of Tender Is The Night. Later, in college, I found a Prof who let me do an independent comparison study of the two versions and he awarded me TWO credit hours for the project. It felt like a big deal at the time!

IDModo said...


Re.:Grapes of Wrath :
Mr.Modo has a bad habit of hanging his clothes on the curtain rod that is used to separate our bedroom from the front hall. (1885 house- no doors). Yesterday I heard myself saying, in my grandmother's voice, "Hang those things in the closet.People will think we're the Joads!" (Gram always used that as a yardstick. She was quite above herself in terms of what she thought our status was!)I was shocked that I said it...
Here in Canada we had dust bowl problems on the Prairies, and many farmers rode the freight trains to Ottawa en masse to try and get Parliament to help.It's part of our history too.
I am so looking forward to seeing the doc tonight!

Lbelle said...

Well...what a fascinating topic! I have heard of this Era, but never much looked into it. I'm another one who could have slept straight through every History class in school and now I LOVE it! All of it! Any! Actually I'm just a documentary and non-fiction fanatic. Can't remember the last book I read that was fiction...think I'm one of the only chicks who knows NOTHING about 50 shades...or seems that way.

Anyways...so, from this thread topic I went searching for some docs to watch on my iPad this morning. I found a great one called Surviving the Dust Bowl. Holy Crap......stunning, to say the least! Now I'm hooked and looking for more and reading all kinds of stuff on it. From the amount of dust, the pneumonias, the crazy situation with the rabbits (!!!), the static electricity......wow, wow, wow...cannot believe what these folks endured, for such a long time. Their work ethic/pride in providing was unreal.

Kate Gosselin SUCKS soooo bad!!!!

readerlady said...

I absolutely hated history in high school. I think the main reasons are those who teach it are boring and lack the freedom/ability/ingenuity/whatever to make it come alive and also, at that age, most kids are focused on themselves can't connect the dots. History informs the choices and consequences of today, but in order to see that, the student needs to focus outward rather than inward. When I got to college, my freshman history prof was wonderful. He had the ability to describe an historical event in terms that made you see them happening right in front of you. He got me so fascinated that I wound up taking enough credits for a second major in History. I wish I'd had someone like him teaching me earlier, but then, that might have been wasted on me at that time/age.

I've always been a reader, but I didn't like many of the so-called classics we were required to read in school. I've never developed a liking for Dickens, but I love the Russian authors and I like Steinbeck. Have any of you read "Travels With Charley"? It's not typical Steinbeck. In his later years, he retrofitted a truck into a camper and took a year-long drive across the country, with his poodle, Charley as a companion. Interesting book, but I've since read that much of what's in the book is fiction rather than fact. It's still worth the read.

Have any of you who loved the TV series "Centennial" read the book? It's excellent, if you can get past the first 50 or so pages. In fact, a lot of Michener is that way, LOL. Anyway, there's a lot in the book that they had to cut out of the series. It's a nice, big, fat, meaty book. The kind I love!

Dwindle said...

AuntieAnn said... 48

As I was growing up yhere didn't seem to be a day go by that the topic of the depression came up one way or another at the supper table. It scarred them both deeply, but left them with an appreciation of everything they did have. To this day my widowed 85 year-old-mother plants a big garden because as she says "it could happen again, you know". She cans and freezes food enough for an army. Even though she has money now she spends it cautiously...uses things up, wears it out, wastes nothing.

I told her about the Dust Bowl on PBS tonight and she said she wasn't sure she wanted to see it all again...testament to how awful it really was.

4444444444444

Auntie, I kind of understand your mom about watching the film. To this day I cannot watch anything about the Vietnam War; I have never seen The Deer Hunter, Apocolypse Now or any of the others that seem to be part of American culture. Watched enough boys i knew get shipped out against their will, and I also knew one of the kids killed at Kent State. Just dont wanna go there. My own grandparents were livid when the country became enthralled with Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway in Hollywood's Bonnie and Clyde. I recall GPa losing his patience with me as I pressed him for personal recollections of the day.


Admin, maybe sometime in future, as part of your "Real Mom's" headings, we could do a thread on money saving and conservation techniques learned from our moms and GMoms and from our own experiences over the years. And years. And for some of us, more years. (THAT is the 'wealth of experience' one of our posters referred to in the last thread that a sheeple troll challenged and ridiculed.)

Dwindle said...

Self correction: I should have typed REAL MOTHERS plural, not REAL MOM'S possessive, which is not even Admin's category title anyway. Sorry.

Mel said...

 As a girl it was not uncommon to have a hobo doing odd jobs around their property - just for food to eat and to sleep in the barn.
My mom often talked of the same thing. And in later years she often talked about how they didn't have to be afraid of strangers, the way you do today. I never did get her to lock the front door, or not leave the keys in the car, which was just sitting in the upper driveway with the keys in it. :-) Strictly by the grace of God that she was never robbed or had her car stolen.

Another thing that she only talked about once, and broke down and wept as she told us (she never cried about *anything*):
As kids they didn't realize that their mother was not eating meals with them, and was getting far too thin. When my mom became a young teen, only then did she realize that their mother was giving the kids and their dad all the food. The mom was only eating what little was left on the plates as she cleaned up from the meal.
The cool part was that the day my mom noticed she instantly told the other kids (just the ones who were old enough to understand-Mom was the eldest) and after that they took turns discreetly leaving bigger parts of their dinner on their plates, saying that they weren't hungry that day.
I think my mom wept because she so wished that she had noticed earlier. But she was just a kid.....

Tucker's Mom said...

To this day my widowed 85 year-old-mother plants a big garden because as she says "it could happen again, you know". She cans and freezes food enough for an army. Even though she has money now she spends it cautiously...uses things up, wears it out, wastes nothing.
*******
The sad thing is that in this day and age, planned obsolescence has us all kneeling down at the altar of consumerism. Technology, cars, appliances. Did I mention technology?
My mother grew up depression/post depression and told stories of collecting cans and crushing them. Every can, none thrown away. She had to go to the cellar and hunt through the furnace for coal that had not burned fully so that it could be used again, and I love the story of the umbrella repair man- a horse-drawn huckster who would come down the street every Tuesday.
Yes, nothing went to waste or was replaced back in the day.
I have my dvr set for The Dust Bowl. I'm looking forward to lots of learning and discussion.

Joanna NY said...

"I've always been a reader, but I didn't like many of the so-called classics we were required to read in school. I've never developed a liking for Dickens..."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I taught Dickens and found the same thing among students. In fact, he's one of my least favorite authors to teach because the students just seem to zone out! What came out in the discussions was that it wasn't Dickens or his writings that were uninteresting, but rather that period of time in British history. They found London to be dark and depressing and just couldn't relate to it. Setting and time plays such an important part in literature, and they couldn't get past their dislike for that era to appreciate the wonderful characterization of Scrooge, Marley, Oliver, The Artful Dodger, Fagin, Bill Sikes, or Miss Havisham.

Dwindle said...

Lbelle said... 52
Well...what a fascinating topic! I have heard of this Era, but never much looked into it. I'm another one who could have slept straight through every History class in school and now I LOVE it! All of it! Any! Actually I'm just a documentary and non-fiction fanatic.
4444444444

May I add my voice to this? I just love it and it's as if I feel my brain absorbing the information! I get frustrated because there is such limited content available for streaming. I have to confess though, I get bored with WWII and Civil War battle strategies, which is what alot of the History Channel loves to produce. I cant watch an hour of "General Gerry brought up the rear flank while Lt Larry noticed an extra cannon and called for the left flank to circle around..." Other than that kind of stuff, I love it all. Especially Revolutionary War stuff.

I learned watching Ken Burns Civil War that the building where DD#1 has her office was originally a women's college, taken over by the Confederate Army and turned into a hospital, then granted back to the state as a women's college. Burns had photos of the period, and it was so fun to call DD, she put the series on streaming and we watched the scenes over and over together on the phone. It is the campus building, on dirt roads, where her office is now!

But I babble and digress as usual...

Pity Party said...

Parent in Lancaster@46 Yes - that is it! I thought it was just some obscure story, I had no idea it was required reading! What the heck. I was not happy with it either. My son would never choose to read a story like that on his own.

Dwindle said...

@ READERLADY: No have not read Centennial! Never thought of it actually, as in the past I have had difficulty trudging through James A. Michener. But I am older and wiser now and will give it a try. I bet if I put my mind to it, I might find it free for Kindle too. I loved the mini series with a passion.

LoveMyGrandsons said...

I really want to see this documentary, but I can't find the listing. I checked on line and it says WNET Channel 13. I'm going through the list of channels we have with XFinity, but I didn't see WNET. However I'm sure we have it because we received a special that gets all of the channels for the first 6 months. Are there any XFinity customers in ILL that can tell me what channel this will be on? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

LaLaLandNoMore said...

I can't wait to watch The Dust Bowl tonight. I've read books about it, and was reared by my grandmother and heard about such hardships as not enough food. No one cared about a "golden platter." Survival was what they hoped and worked for. Grandma could make a delicious meal from whatever we grew in the garden. Miss her so much and she has been gone for over 40 yrs.

Pity Party said...

I don't understand why the schools don't combine history with required reading. The Story of Abraham Lincoln for instance - I watched part of that yesterday and found out so much about him and that era. There are so many books they could combine but I don't think it is even a consideration.

Shut It Down, Kate! said...

Has anyone been reading Kate's Twitter the last day or so? She really needs to shut this down. It has become a scary place, with one fan obsessed with demons and offering gift cards to get a person outed and fired; the posting of personal information, names, addresses and phone numbers, and libeling other tweeters with horrible accusations. It's nasty stuff.

If Kate doesn't shut it down, she should at least give a warning that anyone, including fans, who stoops to this vile mud-slinging immaturity is blocked and is not welcomed to have any kind of internet interaction with her. She needs to do this. Why would she want to be associated with these people...it makes her look bad - I mean, really bad.

readerlady said...

Dwindle, Sadly, no, you won't find it available for Kindle. Very few of Michener's books are available in e-format. I don't know why. I keep clicking that little button ("I want to read this book on Kindle"), but so far, nothing. Michener spends so much time setting the stage for his books that he loses readers. That's why I say I skip the first 50 or so pages. In Centennial, that's devoted to building the topography, etc. When the people arrive, then it gets interesting to me.

butterfly said...

JoannaNY,
You just reminded me, added to Steinbeck and Buck in the 8th grade I didn't like, the Bronte sisters in the 10th grade- good grief, boring!! We did get to read Moby Dick, Melville, and that was exciting.

Speaking of grandmothers- my gram wasnt born until the end of the depression but she lived through WWII and the rationing (sugar, butter, gas, etc) and her family lived on a farm in Mississippi, so they were dirt poor- I heard tales and tales of her day- scrimping and saving and conserving. Boy, dont ever dare throw away food from your plate in her house, don't you know there's people starving?! And she is a classic pat-rat- she saves anything for its potential future use. I think her most used line was "You're not throwing that away are you? It's perfectly good!" and that could be about anything- including the packaging something came in. Perfectly good. I am under the impression growing up in time like that shapes you for the rest of your life- you will never shake it off. People should respect times like that, the power and effect it has on people, and take note from what those who have been through it have to say- in case we find ourselves in similar situations. They are true survivors.

Dwindle said...

Concerned Person said... 44

%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I originally misunderstood your post because I read too fast and skipped one small word. But I read it again and must compliment you on the post and your sentiments! I agree completely.

In 2012, many are intentionally seperating us into the haves and have nots, and the new 'have-nots' must have done something wicked and lazy to bring it on themselves. Do not feed the lowlife, let nature take it's course and survival of the fittest (and most deserving) will prevail. As you and others celebrate the lessons lived and taught by our elders, what are we teaching our society's children now in 2012? Grab, get, hoard, hurt, flaunt, and keep your nose in the air, only YOU are worth it.

I love what you wrote. It is past time to lose the "I'm entitled" attitude.

Please find a 'program' you can trust; your own church, the USO, your local fire department. Do some frugal shopping for canned goods and donate as you can.

butterfly said...

Oops, my post should read my gram is a classic pack-rat, not pat-rat. But you get the idea.
:)

Parent In Lancaster County said...


Pity Party said... 60

Parent in Lancaster@46 Yes - that is it! I thought it was just some obscure story, I had no idea it was required reading! What the heck. I was not happy with it either. My son would never choose to read a story like that on his own.

------

I found the article online...

Search Huffington Post -- Colorado Mom Dangerous Game

NanC said...

Ally said... 16

People have been talking about divorce of J/K and I wanted to share my own experience with a bitter divorce. Now I believe TLC purchased their home. I base that on Roberts book and Kate's emails to TLC, demanding the need for a new home, now. If that is the case, there would be no mortgage and they decided the house was for the kids and which ever parent had primary custody, would then get the home. Just guessing though.

***************

There was originally a $720,000, 10 year mortgage on the house when it was purchased in October '08. There is still a mortgage on the house. The deed is titled in the name of CWM Revocable Trust Agreement. (don't worry sheeple, this is all public record.) I don't believe it's known who the beneficiaries are of this trust, but many feel it's the G8. Originally Jon's quite hefty child support payments ($20,000?/month) were taken out of part of the asset split which was held in escrow specifically for child support, iirc. The original child support figure was based on his earnings while he was part of J&K+8 and receiving income from the show.

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

Butterfly, I agree with you. There is a generation of older adults out there who were raised in the 30's 40's who think like your gram. I too believe you cannot shake that ingrained part of your life. It's not being cheap but rather always valuing what you have. Consumerism has ruined the world in my opinion. Sometimes I wish I was raised back then and not in the 70's when the hippie generation had already set the path for the generations to come. LOL.

tate said...

Didn't someone at some time post that there was some type of evidence that the mortgage was refinanced around the time Kate lost the TLC show? It seemed like the refinance was to a 30 year mortgage? Does anyone else remember this?

IDModo said...

We still can occasionally hear, in the summer, the bell of the knife grinder as he goes up and down city streets.When I was a kid he came by our street every week and housewives would go out and get their kitchen knives sharpened.

The horse drawn milkman's wagon was eagerly anticipated because we hoped the horse would dump in front of our house, so we could go pick up the manure for our garden.

If we were lucky the iceman would give us shards of clean ice to suck. The coal man delivered to a coal chute in the basement wall and the coal went right into the coal cellar.

I remember going to the market with my Grandmother and buying stuff with the little round blue ration tokens which were strung on a piece of string. The butcher's floor was covered with sawdust. Nothing was ever wasted.

This was in 1947 in London, Ontario, Canada.

LoveMyGrandsons said...

Okay, I called a friend who has XFinity and she told me the channel. For those in my area of ILL, it starts at 7:00 on WTTW/channel 11.

Joanna NY said...

"You just reminded me, added to Steinbeck and Buck in the 8th grade I didn't like..."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Eighth grade is, in my opinion, too young to be reading Steinbeck. Schools today are pushing these books on students at earlier ages just to be able to say their curriculum is geared toward progressive education. Soon they'll have children reading Macbeth in third grade just to be able to say, "We read Shakespeare in third grade." But do they understand it? Of course not. Then why bother to read it?

Kids that age do not have the ability to understand the history behind a Steinbeck novel. Even college-age students, who are much more mature in terms of experiences and comprehension, cannot fully grasp the historical significance of the novel.

If an eighth grade student reads it and is bored, chances are he is not going to want to pick up the book again and read it when he is an adult, and that's a real shame.

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

Butterfly, I agree with you. There is a generation of older adults out there who were raised in the 30's 40's who think like your gram. I too believe you cannot shake that ingrained part of your life. It's not being cheap but rather always valuing what you have. Consumerism has ruined the world in my opinion. Sometimes I wish I was raised back then and not in the 70's when the hippie generation had already set the path for the generations to come. LOL.

fidosmommy said...

Our economy is not like it was years ago in the 90s and all of us have to be aware of someone in our neighborhood who is starving. Please help someone with canned goods, go thru your cabinets, those extra cans of soup, they mean the world to a family or even a single person who is too proud to ask. Thank you for your time.

******

Thank you for reminding us. This kind of
compassion is what we need to take to heart every day, not just after catastrophies.

rainbowsandunicorns said...

Shut It Down -- I've checked out the Twitter and it's becoming insane over there. A sheeple (a crazy one) offered a Visa Gift card to "out" another person. Milo is even hopping on the bandwagon and laughing about it...

miloandjack
@Crayola1231 @Kateplusmy8 LOL...maybe one of the dirty dozen will turn her in!

Kate, for heaven's sakes, close this thing now!

Pity Party said...

Thanks Lancaster Mom. I read the article and saved it in case it comes up again. I am going to be watchful from now on. My son says don't worry, when I read something like that I don't feel anything. To myself, therein lies the problem. He has Asperger. Interesting how the mind works. Just like when I tell him let's get this homework done and it will give you a great sense of accomplishment. He says mom when you tell me those things I don't feel any difference at all, whether I do it or not. I say well it is entirely possible that you are having these feelings and just not attaching it to any one thing in particular, but you will when you are older. I wouldn't count on it he says.

Bearswife said...

Pity Party,
I just reread Watership Down a couple of months ago. Such a great book, I had forgotten how good actually. The characters stayed with me for weeks, just tugging at my brain.

LoveMyGrandsons said...

My grandma was born in 1902 so she saw the depression and both world wars. Then in the 50's my grandpa died of a brain tumor and she was left with 7 children, 5 of them under 16. This was the era where there weren't opportunities for women who worked outside of the home. So she had 3 part time jobs: one was working in a bakery, one was cleaning a few houses every week, and the last one was taking in laundry.

Grandma was a great cook, but a very frugal one. Even when I was in my teens she would always buy the most inexpensive beef bone with meat on it to make a big pot of homemade vegetable beef soup, which was delicious! And there was enough for dinner for two days. Then she would take the bone and pull off the last of the meat and use that to make a potato and beef hash with onions; that would be dinner after the soup was gone with homemade rolls and butter.

She always knew how to stretch a dollar to feed her family, and I know that came from the times she grew up in and being a working mother in the 50's.

When I was 18 I worked in a deli. Grandma always loved head cheese and this type of bacon roll lunchmeat, but she would never buy it for herself because she said it was a waste of money. I used to love to bring a half pound of each home for her just as a surprise. And she would always scold me, saying that I shouldn't waste my money to buy unnecessary things for her that she doesn't need. I listened to her scolding respectfully, and when I got paid in another 2 weeks, I would but it again. To me it was never a waste to see the look on her face as she made herself a sandwich with these meats.

After awhile, she stopped scolding me becaue she knew it wasn't doing any good!

butterfly said...

Joanna NY,
Thank you! So I wasn't just a crabby 8th grader, after all.

I am sure if I read those books now, I would receive them completely differently, maybe even like them. I hear that Steinbeck guy is kinda popular :)

It's that time of year again that food drives/banks are collecting for the holidays. My work just had one, no two, and we are getting ready for our third. It doesn't get any easier to donate when the collection bins are on your way in to your workcenter- so I pick up a few extra goods at the store to donate.

NanC said...

Tate,
that refinancing info rings a bell, but I tried to get into the site to check and it says it's down right now for maintenance.

She's come undone said...

In case anyone is interested, on NOVA just ahead of Dust Bowl is a program about Hurricane Sandy that looks very interesting. For myself living so far away from NY I want to see the interviews with folks. Living on the Gulf Coast I have been through a lot of hurricanes and they are all just awful. I hope they can show us that things are improving for these folks. My heart goes out to those still seriously effected by the aftereffects of these huge storms. It makes you just want to sit down in the middle of the floor and cry -- and I have indeed done that at times.

Formerly Duped said...

Concerned Person said... 44

~~~~~~~~~

Excellent post, among others today. You are very generous and discerning. I agree about kids not reading the great authors b/c they are too busy with computers, TV, phones, social networks. As for those down on their luck, it seems there has been a number of natural disasters in recent years affecting this country. It's good that you do all you are; good reminder to everyone although here I have found that people are extremely aware of their blessings and always have something to donate or help with.

NanC said...

Tate, the website opened back up and I found updated info on the deed.

Kate is listed as the sole Successor Trustee of the CWM trust.
Jon resigned as trustee sometime in '09 (part of the divorce possibly - the timing makes sense).
December '11 the original mortgage was satisfied.
In December '11 Kate took out an adjustable/fixed rate, 30 year, mortgage for $662,000. The first rate is 4.25%. (yikes, she should have been able to get a better rate than this last yr!)
The deed to the house is still in the CWM trust name with Kate as trustee.

LaLaLandNoMore said...

Reading about head cheese reminds me of my grandmother and great-aunt getting together and making head cheese. They loved it. I'm sure it was something their own mother had made when they were kids. I love my extended family, still, and feel sorry for the Gosselin kids who don't get to see theirs. Kate just needs to "get over herself" and realize they are missing out on wonderful, fun, normal times. Sad, really.

NJGal51 said...

Bearswife @28 - I make the basic Ocean Spray cranberry relish following the package directions but the secret ingredient is the Lemonchello that I add. I never measure how much I'm putting in, it's just to taste. If you don't have any Lemonchello any citrus liquor will do. I make it a couple of days ahead of time so that the flavors have time to blend. Enjoy!

Bearswife said...

NJGal, I *thought* it was you that had the recipe. We have some limoncello we inherited form my FIL and I was looking for some recipes to use it up! Maybe I'll make it tomorrow then. THANKS!

LoveMyGrandsons said...

After my previous comment about my grandma, I pulled out the family tree book that we had to do for our daughter in grade school. I found out that I made a mistake. My grandma was born in 1912, not 1902. My great-grandma (her mother), came to America from Poland in 1902. I just wanted to correct that.

tate said...

NanC---thanks for the info on the mortgage. I didn't think I had been dreaming about it being refinanced. LOL.

So, educate me---does this mean that Kate pays the mortgage? The trustee thing confuses me. I am guessing that she is responsible for paying the mortgage and TLC did not foot the bill for the house. She would have refinanced after the show ended, because she would have less income coming in and needed to make smaller payments. Does that sound logical?

Dmasy said...

If you haven't already seen this Lewis CK monologue, please check it out. Especially watch and laugh if you are one of the retired, invalid ladies in rolled socks and crocs. It is hilarious but addresses the point we are making.

Everything is amazing and no one is happy.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8m5d0_everything-is-amazing-and-nobody-i_fun#.UKlf2KXFVlA

Dmasy said...

My DVR is set up to record the Dustbowl documentary tonight. I will enjoy all the comments here before I am able to watch the program.

I don't think they will be considered "spoilers" -- just history.

PatK said...

tate, the mortgage is probably paid from the Trust funds. The trust is funded with Kate's money.

Lbelle said...

Dwindle....59:
You never babble!! What a cool story!
I LOVE old buildings. The really old places in Europe where you can just sit and wonder about all the different people that have passed through. So amazing!

Mel.......don't remember the post # cuz I was too busy trying to swallow the darn lump in my throat. What a woman you had as a Mom! Sad story...what people had to do just to survive. Hugs to you!! xo

tate said...

Thanks PatK. I'm just relieved that TLC didn't "gift" the house to Kate. I'm sure that was her wish!

IDModo said...

I learned to make head cheese from my Gram but when I make it, I use pork hocks instead of the head. I don't like to eat anything that is looking at me.

NJGal51 said...

OK, I'm going to admit it, I'm not a history buff. There, I've said it. My husband is a Civil War buff and took me to Gettysburg for our honeymoon. I was not pleased (but we are still married). We don't watch TV together because his tastes run to the history channel and the military channel while I'm happier watching Sons of Anarchy, Criminal Minds, Dexter and Breaking Bad with a little RHOBH and any type of cooking competition thrown into the mix. I've set TiVo to record the dust bowl but may not make it through the whole thing. We'll see. Although I did watch The Hatfields and McCoys so maybe I'm not a lost cause after all (and I do read. A.Lot.)

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

NJ oh my lemonchello! I was on a very long hike in Europe and in the end of the hike some old man had set up a lemonchello stand and was passing out shots for 2 euros a piece. Only in Europe do you get a nice shot of hard liquor after a good workout.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Jumping in late to the hobo discussion. My grandfather's experience as a boy on the farm watching the hobos shaped him for the rest of his lives. The hobos were desolate people and would drown their sorrows in liquor and gambling and rowdy music all night long.

It forever shaped him. He has forever had an extremely low tolerance for anything like that. Even someone just enjoying one glass of wine once in a blue moon bothers him. He doesn't even like church raffles. Without understanding his background you would think he is just a grumpy, conservative old man. Once you understand where he is coming from it makes sense.

It was quite the time and has stuck with those young people shaped their whole world views.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Oh my grandma was the same way not wasting anything. She would reuse things today we just throw in the garbage--plastic bags, foil.

It was kind of sad in a way--not that being frugal is sad, but the reasons for it--because it was such a difficult time and if you don't save that foil you may not be able to afford more. Sometimes you wanted to just tell her hey grandma you don't have to live like this anymore. We're safe and comfortable now. But it also made you question how much you really waste without thinking.

Joanna NY said...

"Joanna NY,
Thank you! So I wasn't just a crabby 8th grader, after all."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not at all. Eighth grade is just too young for Grapes. I've had some crabby college kids who didn't appreciate the book too much. Most of them, however, really got into it even though they hadn't had many courses on the Depression. The paper that one of my students turned in was excellent. The amount of research he did was impressive. He did get it, and I hope he's planning on watching the show.

NanC said...

Tate, as PatK said, the mortgage is probably being paid from the funds in the Trust.

As for refinancing the house last year - she most likely did it to save money by getting a better interest rate. Iirc, the original loan was a balloon mortgage and had to be paid off in 10? yrs anyway. She just did it earlier. I am surprised that she went for a fixed/adjustable rate starting at 4.25% when 30 yr fixed rates were a lot lower than that then. Maybe since she didn't have a secure job the bank couldn't give her the best rates - idk.

butterfly said...

NJGal,
I will join in the not history fan club. For me, it has to be pre Columbian to even spark my interest. I had to take early American History twice in my 1st of college cuz my eyes just glazed over at all that Continental Congress, Boston Tea Party, Lincoln yada yada, LOL!! Oh, painful. And to make matters worse, in the Navy, we have to study Naval history and naval battles- UGH!! I have beyond zero interest in naval battles- sorry- just not me. Now, if we get into the ancient civilizations like Sumeria- I am all over it, or brief stints in time that shaped our nation like the Depression (which is more recent than 1776) then sure, I'll learn about it because I do like learning and it is good to have some basic background knowledge, but leave the battles out! :)

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


Thank you! So I wasn't just a crabby 8th grader, after all."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not at all. Eighth grade is just too young for Grapes.

&&&

I agree, 8th grade is just too too young. I mean isn't there a part where a woman breastfeeds someone who is starving. An eighth grader isn't going to get that and what was being said. All they're going to think is "gross." It also talks about complicated New Deal policies most kids don't start learning about until advanced history classes in high school. A lot of schools will try to coincide the reading of this book with the Great Depression teachings in history.

Certain books I have no problem waiting into the child is ready for it. It's dangerous to force books on them like that when they are not ready. They may never read it again.

butterfly said...

Admin!!!
I still wash and save foil because of my gram- omg funny! "It's perfectly good" LOL

Remona Blue said...

My grandmother hid food in her room...not just canned goods, but things like chicken drumsticks, baked potatoes and other cooked food. When she visited us, my mother would get her involved in something out of her room, while my sister and I searched and removed any cooked food. Mother told us that her mother hid food out of fear that she might not have anything for the next meal. I remember being really sad every time we were told to search her room. As far as I know, my mother never confronted her mother about the food hoarding, because she understood why it happened.

NJGal51 said...

Butterfly, we non history buffs will stand together and let our eyes glaze over. I will say that one of my favorite movies is 1776. That and Gone With The Wind. There's my double dose of history.

Improbable Dreams said...

NJGal and Butterfly ~ I'm not a history buff, either, but if I think of it as a collection of real people's lives and stories, it's SO much more interesting!

That's why I love Ken Burns's documentaries so much--he threads individual stories together into a patchwork quilt. HIstory, made beautiful for the way he weaves together so many people's stories.

She's come undone said...

Oh my goodness, you guys are so right about Kate's twitter. I cannot believe some of the things are being said and done over there. It has gone so far beyond decency and normalcy. This new twitterer Crayola is beyond the pale. But don't hold your breath that Kate will close her twitter or tell them to stop. It is her ONLY claim to fame she has left.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I really don't think she cares. Which is proof she couldn't care less who is causing who misery as long as everyone is talking about her.

Joanna NY said...

Improbable said,

"That's why I love Ken Burns's documentaries so much--he threads individual stories together into a patchwork quilt. HIstory, made beautiful for the way he weaves together so many people's stories."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quotations on life really aren't my thing, but in response to your comment, I'm throwing this one out there, by the English Romantic poet, Percy Bysshe Shelley:

"History is a cyclic poem written by Time upon the memories of man."

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Really see I love Ken Burns' reliance on primary sources and the reading of prose written by often, the everyday man or woman. It's not just a bunch of random quotes, the prose is very carefully selected and all has a purpose heading toward the goal.

But his style, although very successful, doesn't please everyone I get that.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


If an eighth grade student reads it and is bored, chances are he is not going to want to pick up the book again and read it when he is an adult, and that's a real shame.

&&7

Yes I have that same fear. I think what books to introduce kids to at what time can really make or break whether they will become lifetime lovers of great literature or have a lifetime of bad experiences. And it might depend on the child too. I was introduced to Dickens far too soon in my opinion and never really got into it.

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

She's come undone said... 85

In case anyone is interested, on NOVA just ahead of Dust Bowl is a program about Hurricane Sandy that looks very interesting. For myself living so far away from NY I want to see the interviews with folks. Living on the Gulf Coast I have been through a lot of hurricanes and they are all just awful. I hope they can show us that things are improving for these folks. My heart goes out to those still seriously effected by the aftereffects of these huge storms. It makes you just want to sit down in the middle of the floor and cry -- and I have indeed done that at times.

************************************************

Before I forget-

Thank you, She's come undone, for reminding me to tune in for this Nova special.

I'm watching it right now.

Chilling.

Dwindle said...

butterfly said... 107
Admin!!!
I still wash and save foil because of my gram- omg funny! "It's perfectly good" LOL

444444444

Wha?? is this a thing?? dont most folks do this? Huh? What...? and then I rewash it before I reycycle it...

Improbable Dreams said...

Admin ~I don't think Joanna in NY was referring to Ken Burns's documentary style. She can speak for herself, lol, but as I interpreted her response to me, I think she was breaking her own tradition of not using other people's quotations to help make a point about history's overall impact on everyone.

LaLaLandNoMore said...

My great-grandparents lived near the railroad tracks and had frequent visits from hobos during the depression. Great-grandma would feed them from what she could spare (5 kids to feed herself), never let them in the house, and made them sit and eat on the back steps. Her children were not allowed to talk with them. She would not deny anyone food even if it was only a spare scrap. Word traveled fast and according to family lore, she fed hundreds of hobos.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Ah I see. I thought it was a reference to the style since that's how he does it.

Of course, none of the quotes are trite and all of them are given attributions! :)

Dwindle said...

NJGal51 said... 99
OK, I'm going to admit it, I'm not a history buff. There, I've said it.

44444444444

LOL! well... oh kayyyy...I guess I luy ya anyway! LOL again!I love how the folks on this site have move on to True Confessions: I Dont Love History.

NJGal, sending you a quick fun hug!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

From how my grandfather tells it back in the day everyone actually had guest rooms. You didn't stay in hotels when you traveled, you were always put up by a friend or family in the front room. Anyway, when he was very young, Native Americans would stop in, sleep by the fire, and leave at sunup. And no one thought anything of it, it's just what happened. My great-grandparents shared their fire with them and didn't ask questions. It was a different time.

As a kid I always thought that sounded like such a far away and exotic time and place. Now it doesn't seem that way.

Dwindle said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 102
Oh my grandma was the same way not wasting anything. She would reuse things today we just throw in the garbage--plastic bags, foil.

It was kind of sad in a way--not that being frugal is sad, but the reasons for it--because it was such a difficult time and if you don't save that foil you may not be able to afford more. Sometimes you wanted to just tell her hey grandma you don't have to live like this anymore. We're safe and comfortable now.

444444444

Those words would make no sense to her, anymore than Chinese would. We cant comprehend what she couldnt comprehend.

Kirkland said...

I feel I have to share this information about Ken Burns.

Ken Burns made an epic seven-part, fourteen hour film called The War. I understand it took 5 or 6 years to make.

The documentary is a complete and total look at World War II, organized by the experiences of four small towns across America.

It looks at every aspect of America’s involvement, from Pearl Harbor to VJ-Day, the European to the Pacific Theater.

Well, everything except Latinos. He didn't include one Puerto Rican, Mexican American, etc. in the documentary.

Just Google Ken Burns The War controversy and you'll see tons of articles about this.

After much pressure, he eventually re-edited the documentary before it aired.

I personally was very offended by this.

With all that said...I'm sure this documentary on the dust bowl is very good - and I'll probably watch it (the subject is interesting to me).

Pity Party said...

Oh for the days of canning vegetables from the garden and freezing the corn cream style, making pickles and relishes. My aunt and uncle had a truck farm, they had a route and a corner lot to park and sell their produce, home-made butter, jellies, peppers, relishes, pickles, etc. Every summer my sister and I would go and stay a couple of weeks to help with the churning, pickling, snapping the beans for canning, scraping corn off the cob, shaking the apples trees and making jelly, blackberry picking, and wild plum picking. I can still remember the smell of the butter that we would shape into a round ball and then smooth it down and make it look nice. The food in the pressure cooker permeated the entire house. We would have to go and get the dairy cows and bring them in for milking. We would have home-made cold buttermilk with nuggets of butter for lunch and dinner. We loved it there. In exchange for that they would give us money to shop for back to school. My aunt took such pride in having her shelves fully stocked and the freezer full of fresh vegetables. People really knew how to live back then.

TLC stinks said...

Rumor is Crayola1231 is Kate. Does thus sound like Kate? I think so.


crayola1231about 4 hours ago
@Kateplusmy8 I will give anyone a $200 Visa gift card to anyone with berksgrl real info

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Kirkland one thing to keep in mind is the way Ken Burns often has sought out people to participate in his documentaries is he simply advertises in newspapers or elsewhere. Perhaps no Hispanics came forward to participate. I doubt he is intentionally trying to alienate a certain race or ethnicity. It's hard to believe of all people with his intense interest in history and how far we've come he would intentionally exclude a group of people. And the fact that he actually reedited it speaks volumes about his character. He listened and responded. You have to understand for a filmmaker to agree to change a film he already has edited to perfection is a huge deal. I'm Italian American but it never occurs to me to watch films looking to see where the Italian Americans are. My background of which I am very proud has been reduced to mafia cliches and pizza. Maybe we should be putting up more of a protest, I say this in seriousness.

Improbable Dreams said...

TLC stinks said... 126
Rumor is Crayola1231 is Kate. Does thus sound like Kate? I think so.


crayola1231about 4 hours ago
@Kateplusmy8 I will give anyone a $200 Visa gift card to anyone with berksgrl real info
~~~~~~~~

Why is "Crayola1231" so interested in discovering Berksgrl's identity? As opposed to some of Kate's other "haters," that is?

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


Those words would make no sense to her, anymore than Chinese would. We cant comprehend what she couldnt comprehend.

&&&

Yes you're right. And I think if it makes you feel more secure to save foil, then save it, Grandma. The East Coast airing starts in 15 minutes. Enjoy everyone. I may be missing some of my airing tonight so I might not be able to chime in until later. That is what DVR is for!!

Also, part two will have a new post early tomorrow morning for its airing tomorrow night.

Joanna NY said...

I agree, 8th grade is just too too young. I mean isn't there a part where a woman breastfeeds someone who is starving. An eighth grader isn't going to get that and what was being said

^^^^^^^

Yes, one of the characters, Rose of Sharon, gives birth to a baby who is stillborn. The family comes to a barn and finds a starving man and his son. The man hasn't had food for six days because he gave everything to his son. He can no longer digest solid food. Rose of Sharon tells everyone to leave the barn, and she breastfeeds the dying man so that he may live.

It's far too deep for young students to understand the reality and implications of the situation. She is beside herself with grief and has suffered greatly over the loss of her baby, but Steinbeck ends the novel with the breastfeeding scene to show that even in the worst of circumstances there may be hope. The baby has died, but the milk of the mother and her unselfishness to provide nutrition to a starving man has given a stranger the chance to regain his strength, even though she herself hasn't recovered from the physical effects of the delivery of her child.

Dmasy said...

Crayola 1231 probably isn't Kate. The numbers don't add up to 8.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Improbable Dreams said... 128

Why is "Crayola1231" so interested in discovering Berksgrl's identity? As opposed to some of Kate's other "haters," that is?
_______________________________________

Berksgrl claims to live close by and tweeted this yesterday:

Darby Shaw ‏@Berksgrl
@Underwalt @msgoody2shoes21 @Kateplusmy8 Just found out from friend at Electric company Jon's electric wasn't off Goody is a liar


Got everybody all shook up.

I take what she says with a grain of salt.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

To this day my widowed 85 year-old-mother plants a big garden because as she says "it could happen again, you know".

&&&

Wise words. Just like many things could happen to you: Unemployment, child support, electricity bills unpaid, getting canned. It could all happen.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Pity for my school it was. It was great. We read all those socialist books when we were studying that--George Orwell and whatnot. Grapes of Wrath when studying the depression. Dickens when studying the 19th century. But I was very lucky. It was an excellent school. And public school incidentally.

A survey of my class of 250 on facebook shows many teachers including a teacher for the deaf, two doctors, several nurses, computer programmers, and a police officer, an EMT, a college football coach (!!!), and seven or eight lawyers last I counted. All this came out of public school in rural, blue collar America, go figure!! Not to mention a dozen or so who served their country. I guess they can prepare you well.

Improbable Dreams said...

Interesting point, Kirkland, and I appreciate your honesty in bringing this issue forward because it gave me the opportunity to read & reflect on how things unfolded.

It's clear that Ken Burns didn't respond favorably to the initial outcry. PBS came to his defense. But in the end, he cracked open the finished documentary, so as to include Hispanics in his WWII documentary. Rightly so.

I thought this interview excerpt was especially enlightening, for what was said and not, as well as the underlying tone of the back-and-forth:

Washington, D.C.: Ken, Many of us viewed with some sympathy your efforts to placate the Hispanic Caucus and Latino pressure groups but at the same time felt that selecting one ethnic group as a featured segment was an arbitrary surrender to political pressure. What was the numerical justification, if any, for the inclusion of Latinos? What percentage of the U.S. forces were they? What about blacks (which I thought was well enough covered, briefly but with all attendant ironies and ambiguities)?

Ken Burns: When we set out to do this film we made a pact with ourselves not to seek out any particular ethnic group. In the course of our five years spent in each of our four towns a diverse number of people came forward. Unfortunately, no Hispanics did. At first, we resisted making any editions to the film we finished in early 2006 but we realized that art has an obligation to transcent petty politics, even though many of those criticizing us had not seen a fram of our film and therefore cound't understand that we were not trhing to be definitive. We decided to transcend the situation, to rise above the politically correct bickering and to produce new content that would not in any way compromise our original vision but would go some distance toward honoring the concerns of this group.


Read the whole thing, if you want, and draw your own conclusions. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1890430

rainbowsandunicorns said...


"Why is "Crayola1231" so interested in discovering Berksgrl's identity? As opposed to some of Kate's other "haters," that is?"

********

Berks tweeted that a friend at the electric company said that Jon didn't have his power cut off. That set off "Crayola" for some reason, maybe because the fans want to believe that Jon didn't pay his bill. Apparently "Crayola" contacted the police (???) because an employee of the electric company gave out personal information about an account. She/he says they are contacting the company today to get that employee fired. I don't understand this, though, because the fans don't believe anything that Berks says anyway.

It's so bizarre. Kate needs to end this nonsense now. It's foolish of her to continue this antagonism between the two factions.

TLC stinks said... 126
Rumor is Crayola1231 is Kate. Does thus sound like Kate? I think so.

*********

I don't think it is. This person has a hang-up with demon dogs, demon liars, and is totally off-the-wall. Even Kate wouldn't stoop that low and show such contempt with vile remarks and cursing.

I do believe though, that the poster has recently commented here.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Ken, Many of us viewed with some sympathy your efforts to placate the Hispanic Caucus and Latino pressure groups but at the same time felt that selecting one ethnic group as a featured segment was an arbitrary surrender to political pressure.

&&&

I say this with ALL due respect, but it kind of bothers me that a group brought forward a, arguably, valid concern, Ken Burns addressed it by spending time and money to film an entire extra segment for his work (again for a filmmaker this is very unusual, most filmmakers would say that's my baby and you can shove your concerns....), but then even THAT wasn't good enough. You think you are bending over backwards to help a people and it must be frustrating to hear them say well we appreciate your efforts BUTTTT we think you are just placating us?.....I have my limits with political correctness but try to keep an open mind. He did an entire documentary on the Civil War, the man is not racist.

" In the course of our five years spent in each of our four towns a diverse number of people came forward. Unfortunately, no Hispanics did."

EXACTLY what I suspected. Ken Burns puts out calls in newspapers to come forward. It is up to the public who is going to come forward.

Maybe the question needs to be, not why did Ken Burns not film Hispanic,s but rather, why did Hispanics not come forward to share their stories??? Stigma, shame, uncomfortable with being filmed??? If a bunch came forward and he edited them out that would be a completely different story. That's just not what happened.

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

Darby Shaw ‏@Berksgrl

=====================
Darby Shaw? Isn't that one of the main characters in Grisham's The Pelican Brief? Interesting...

The twit's tweets said...

LMAO, one of the sheeple has forgotten to include the name of the person she's responding to in her tweets and is instead sending them to ONLY Kate. Freudian slips maybe?

Here's a sampling of what she's sending to just Kate:

@Kateplusmy8 Dear stupid childish bore SHUT UP.
@Kateplusmy8 Some people have too much time on their hands.
@Kateplusmy8 Get over yourself
@Kateplusmy8 Yawn, I've seen this sick game before.Someone who is not wanted anywhere by anyone needs to feel powerful. I'm going to bed.


Mel said...

Mom was also in the mode of saving *everything*. She was especially fond of the red tape that used to come wrapped around bananas. We had miles of it stuck to rafters in the attic, for when it would be needed. :-)

We often heard, "That's still good! Don't throw that away!"

She never spent a dime that she didn't have to. Especially not on a "luxury", and especially not on herself.
I, being my mother's daughter, also feel guilty spending on myself. If there is still some wear left in whatever, a new one will not be purchased! And God forbid that you buy something just because you want it. It's taken me a lot of years to get past that one. And I'm still not past it much. Lol.

I think that's why Kate's greediness bothers me so much. So many people suffered during the depression, and many suffer today, without complaint.
But Kate thinks she should have posh trips, and only the best items for her house, luxury hotels and the best restaurants, first class airfare, designer clothes and shoes and cars...just because she wants them, and without ever earning or working for them. She thinks it all should just be handed to her, cuz she birthed 8 kids. Or maybe just because she exists.

Deck The Halls said...

I don't think it is. This person has a hang-up with demon dogs, demon liars, and is totally off-the-wall. Even Kate wouldn't stoop that low and show such contempt with vile remarks and cursing.

I do believe though, that the poster has recently commented here.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Yes, I do, too. It's one of the drive-bys here who is hell bent on character assassinations of Liz and Jon. There are some really nasty tweets going down there.

Mel said...

Brksgrl tweeted something last night about good luck finding out who she is because she doesn't exist. Thus the reference to Darby Shaw?
Oh boy, sounds like something gosselinbook would think up.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Turns out I'm staying in tonight. The good news, I can watch The Dust Bowl as it airs here.

What I can't change though is being on PST. GRR! Jealous!

I keep picturing you all cozied up on your couches with your pets and hubbies right now enjoying this.......

Anonymous said...

Comcast XFINITY On Demand has Dust Bowl Part 1 available now for those on the west coast. I'm watching it now.

Greedy Gosselins said...

I can appreciate that divorce laws vary from state to state. I can even appreciate that Jon may have not gotten 1/2 the money they made.

I guess I'm still stuck on the fact that he acted so stupidly after they split and appeared to spend what ever money he DID get very foolishly.

I'm an abused spouse and I certainly didn't feel the need to relive my 20's. I put my son first. Admitting you've been abused does not give one free reign to act like a jackass, imo.

Yes, I realize things have changed and Jon appears to be a little more 'settled'. I'm just not giving HIM the credit for it. I feel like he was forced into that because the offers dried up.

I know this is not a popular opinion and I'm not trying to rehash everything again. Just wanted people to know where I'm coming from.

Also, Kate is ten times worse. I may not like Jon much but I literally loathe Kate.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


I guess I'm still stuck on the fact that he acted so stupidly after they split and appeared to spend what ever money he DID get very foolishly.

&&&

How foolish can you really be spending when most of your money goes to child support? He can't possibly have that much money to spend after that.

It's easy for Kate to manage money when she doesn't have to pay support. But since even Kate has whined about money, can't even afford a simple movie, I wouldn't say she has managed money any better.

It's also easy to keep a good handle on your finances when you have no shame at all about dipping into your children's hard earned money to do so, or perfectly willing to put them to work to pay your electric bill.

butterfly said...

Ok,
another admission- I'm watching the Walking Dead- so maybe I can catch pt 2 tomorrow of Dust bowl
:D

But I am doing homework, too, if that is any kind of redemption

Twittering And Twattering said...

miloandjack
@Kateplusmy8 U serve 9...all the time. If that were me...I'd be losing my mind! :) #BigComplexDinnerSpread Piece of cake 4Kate the Gr8!

I guess Milo isn't familiar with the large Amish families. They do what they have to do, and without electricity, cooks, laundry helpers or nannies. Milo somehow thinks that Kate is the only woman in America who has a large family, and therefore hero worship is not only acceptable, but expected.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

@Kateplusmy8 U serve 9...all the time. If that were me...I'd be losing my mind! :

&&&

Am I missing something about cooking for nine? We all do it for family gatherings or friends over. You just .... cook....MORE. For example, instead of putting in four or five pieces of chicken, you put in nine!!! Nine count them nine!!! What a world, what a world.

Anonymous said...

Why did gosselinbook stop moderating comments? Not good :(

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


But Kate thinks she should have posh trips

&&&

She is still grifting for her THIRD free trip to Australia. It's out of this world.

The Depression era people were lucky to see a black and white photograph of a kangaroo in a book or maybe, in a rare treat see one in a zoo. But to ever go there let alone go THREE times? I've never seen such greed.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

I'm dying here, how did the East Coasters who watched it like it?? Roll call please!

Remona Blue said...

One of the few times I saw my daddy cry was when he told us about ''the government'' coming to his father's ranch in West Texas, digging a ditch, driving all their cattle into it and killing them all. The tears came when he said, ''They wouldn't even let our milk cows live.'' Tonight, when the man told the same story, with a calf ''they'' refused to allow them to keep, I could see my daddy's face so clearly!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Remona that is AWFUL. Was it a supply and demand thing? I know I know I should just wait to watch....:)

My grandfather's farm was a fruit and dairy farm. They loved and cared for those cows. They treated them with dignity and respect, humanely. I cannot imagine.

Remona Blue said...

I watched it. I wouldn't say that I liked it exactly, because it was sort of surreal...as though people with strangers faces were telling the stories of my relatives that I'd heard all my life!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Remona unlike other docs of distance times before anyone we know was ever born, I did fear this one was going to hit close to home for many people.


LOL I'm getting pug ads for t-shirts one says "I would cuddle you so hard!" lol We had a playdate with the pug I'm babysitting Mr P. All went well between him and my baby, they were like indifferent best friends. All is a go for Thanksgiving babysitting!

Remona Blue said...

Damn. I'm a little unsettled by this. It's difficult to explain.

She's come undone said...

Just finished watching Part 1. Two thoughts at this point:

This one came toward the end when the children were trying to get home during the black duster and made it safely but Mom and Dad were back at church frantically searching for them. When the parents made it home she was crying with such relief the son said "we were just hugging' Mama a lot to get her to hush'. I laughed about that comment.

The second one: Rina Marie and her brothers. I am still crying.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Curses you PST time, a pox on all of you!


"we were just hugging' Mama a lot to get her to hush'."

***

Awww. In any time in any place, good Mommies are mother bears who just want their babies with them.

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

Admin, I think you have been bit by the pug bug. I see a pug in your family very soon. LOL They are the best little pets. Dust Bowl doesn't come on for another 2 hours here. Looking forward to it and reading everyone's comments.

Flight of the Kiwi said...

It's very good. I particularly liked the snippet of Woody Guthrie's song

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...


Admin, I think you have been bit by the pug bug. I see a pug in your family very soon. LOL

&&&

LOL! My little dog tends to prefer his own kind but this pug is perfect for him because he gave him his space. When my dog was ready, he approached, and they got along just swimmingly. The pug seemed more interested in seeking out interesting people and barking at them incessantly as if to let him know they are funny looking, than with the boring canines. My dog was more interested in when we were going to go home so he could cuddle up warm.

Improbable Dreams said...

Taking bets on whether Kate answers Milo's question. My money's on NO.

@Kateplusmy8 Hey..R U planning on doing a #FullMarathon this year? One month left? :) I imagine its daunting 2even think of doin it again!

She's come undone said...

Admin, it was great! Hubby and I watched and were mesmerized. The photos and commentary by old folks who were young children at the time will make you smile at times and cry at others. I think you are going to find it is all you hoped it would be.

localyocul said...

I deliberately didn't remind my teen that the AMAs were on and she watched with me. She loves history. Hopefully it will make an impression.

localyocul said...

Improbable Dreams said... 163
Taking bets on whether Kate answers Milo's question. My money's on NO.

@Kateplusmy8 Hey..R U planning on doing a #FullMarathon this year? One month left? :) I imagine its daunting 2even think of doin it again!

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Well the Philadelphia Marathon was today...

butterfly said...

Hey! I want the pug t-shirt ads!! send them my please :)

capecodmama said...

Admin...Just watched the program and I thought it was good. I would not have watched it if you hadn't done a thread on it but I'm glad I did. I can't imagine having to live through dust storms day in and day out for years. To hear the tragedies that hit some of these families is heartbreaking. The Cape Cod Times had a write up in today's paper about the documentary so it peaked my interest even more. I'm not going to comment on any specifics until everyone has watched it but I look forward to Part 2 tomorrow night.

NJGal51 said...

I really hope that this is someone yanking Kate's chain.

@R3BORDERCOLLlES: Kateplusmy8 Good night Kate, I'll be here to fight your haters cause you're more important to me than my family! ((((hugs))))

capecodmama said...

She's come undone...I agree about Rina Marie and her brothers. So sad. Don't want to give anything away but the other one that really hit me was the 13 year old boy and what he did because he thought the cost of his school books was a burden on his parents.

New Kid said...

I'm away from home, so can't watch until I get back. My parents lived through the great depression, and reading about it interests me very much, and also breaks my heart. Not only did the "Okies" have to flee the dust bowl, but when they arrived out West, they were reviled for being poor!

It does my heart good to know that some of those poor "Okies" managed to get a little bit of land to work, and now they own vast farms and do very well. All it took was a whole lot of backbreakingly hard work, and a little bit of luck. I talked to one man who now lives very well, who came to California as an infant with his family and lived under a tree for several months. His father did sharecropping and scraped by until WWII, when he managed to sell a crop to the war department and finally had a bit of money to set aside. This man said that his mother snatched the cash out of daddy's hands and took care of it until they had enough to buy a small farm. With hard work, they kept growing and now own thousands of acres.

A Pink Straight Jacket For Kate said...

Another Ken Burns masterpiece, beautifully told.

What an incredible generation. I am in awe of their sheer resilience and bravery.
The women of that era were real life WONDER WOMEN.








Sidney said...


LoveMyGrandsons said... 91

After my previous comment about my grandma, I pulled out the family tree book that we had to do for our daughter in grade school. I found out that I made a mistake. My grandma was born in 1912, not 1902. My great-grandma (her mother), came to America from Poland in 1902. I just wanted to correct that.
----------------------------------

That was very interesting, and I love reading about family history. Your grandmother and great-grandmother helped make you be the wonderful grandmother that you are!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Well I'm halfway through and it's very ominous so far.

The attitudes were different back then. Your sort of just did what you had to do. The one woman's story about how when the wheat prices went bust the family cancelled the newspaper, used harsh lye instead of soap, shut off the telephone. It didn't kill them. It seems obvious you need to cut back when times are tough, and yet it doesn't seem to be so obvious for people today. Some people don't seem to want to make those kind of sacrifices today when times are tough. They just keep on paying for their toys and other luxuries and yet wonder why times are so tough.

It all goes back to why I can't stand everything Kate represents in terms of a cultural shift to greed, handouts and bailouts. Cry me a river about bills. You don't need that huge house, you don't need that private school, you don't need those clothes, manis and pedis. People back then cut back when times were tough and people today can too. Until people like Kate cut back on the houses and private school and other luxuries I don't want to hear it. No one is asking you to use lye instead of Dove.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

What I like about this kind of thing is it's a good excuse to email my grandfather. We email at least once a week. I don't call anymore because he's too hard of hearing. Email is a wonderful thing for a grandfather who can't hear and his granddaughter. And he's really great at attaching photos, he will attach whatever strikes his fancy, mostly a pretty flower he saw out on a walk or an old photo he found. :)

He told me a lot about farming when he was a kid. His email is a bit too political to share and he admitted he switched back and forth from Dust Bowl to football (men!) but I loved hearing the stories. He said his area was spared on huge natural disasters but as a small farm they stopped making a profit when the big farms with advanced equipment took over. For some farmers it was the dust, for others like The Farmer's Wife and my grandfather, it was the curse of the small farm.

Remona Blue said...

My mother was born in 1920 in Oklahoma into a life of extreme poverty. My sister said mother saw the Dorothea Lange photo of the woman w/her children on the side of the road, and burst into sobs, saying that was exactly the way she remembered her life. When the migration to California started, Mother's family moved to West Texas, where she met Daddy.

My daddy was born in 1914 in West Texas. Daddy's life was very different, due to oil discovered on the family land, but the depression and the banks closing did affect their lives. They had a farm and ranch on quite a lot of land, but lived very frugal and self-sufficient lives.

Lynn W. said...

I have heard about the Dust Bowl all my life. My parents were born and raised in Kansas and lived through the the early years until they escaped west in 1936. My dad was in the middle of 9 children and the first son to graduate from high school. His paents were farmers and in his teens and early 20's he chased crops (followed the harvests) all summer long. He started college only to have his life-long savings lost when banks failed. His parents lost the farm to foreclosure in the mid 40's. Mom says she doesn't need to watch Ken Burns series to remember those days (and she has watched most of his). Just thought I'd share my perspective.

Admin., I appreciate your recaps and will read the posts to follow the story.

Greedy Gosselins said...

How foolish can you really be spending when most of your money goes to child support? He can't possibly have that much money to spend after that.
***************************

He was foolish enough to spend what I'm sure is outrageous rent on a NYC apartment. He was foolish enough to 'summer' in the Hamptons which wasn't free. He was foolish enough to fly to Hawaii and stay in a hotel for a wedding of someone I don't think he even really knew. I haven't looked at an Ed Hardy catalogue for prices but he was foolish enough to buy clothing there.

I'm sure there's more that even we don't know.

He had to be aware of his outrageous child support amount. Why he didn't think ahead and save the little bit of money he DID have, I don't understand.

Kate is in a completely different class all by herself. Well, maybe Joan Crawford is in that class with her. LOL

What's Next? said...

The first part struck me...the words "next year" and the falling price of wheat.

And the dust storms, I was amazed by the pictures. I had no idea it was that heavy and covered that large a radius. I can imagine they did believe the world was coming to an end. I sure would think that.

Lbelle said...

I thought the documentary was excellent. Admin...thanks so much for this thread. I've learnt an awful lot today.

Isn't it just unreal how different society ( not all, of course...just in general ) is/behaves/thinks less than 100 years ago? I just can't wrap my head around what those people went through and how they handled themselves with such dignity.

Can't wait for Part 2 tomorrow night!

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Irene Coen. Eight children. Two bedroom house. Her only daughter contracted dust pneumonia and died.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Greedy Gosselins I'm not sure I understand the hang up on some questionable financial decisions made three years ago. They simply aren't repeated today. Jon has family in Hawaii and has visited there before. It's really not that bad to take a flight to Hawaii then just stay with family. For all we know Victorino flew him out and he didn't pay a dime. He's a multi millionaire and his friend. For all we know the Hamptoms were comped too. It sure looks like Europe was comped as that was business. He was in the NYC apartment a matter of months before getting rid of it. Hailey was there at the time, for all we know her rich parents helped with rent. He was working in NYC so it may have made sense to get a place at least temporarily rather than pay for expensive hotels. When I've stayed there even the cheap hotels run you several hundred dollars.

What's the point you're driving at her? I'm trying to follow. Both parents obviously made poor financial choices but we've already said that a million times. The problem is no one really knows where either of them stand today. I don't believe for one second anyone really knows who paid what bills unless they have the bills in their own hands.

In fact it's actually one of the biggest mysteries in this whole saga. Just exactly how much money are they operating with here? It would answer a lot of questions. We've heard what it might be quite a bit and that Kate was pretty savvy, but no one has seen any bank statements. Not that I know of anyway! So really the whole conversation is based on a lot of innuendo, which personally I find very frustrating, because this is one of those rare situations where I do think the finances are a matter of public concern, since so much of it was built off the backs of child labor that is now illegal in that state. Yes, I would like an accounting of every single dollar those kids ever made. But we're probably not going to get it, so we're just talking in circles.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

Consumerism has ruined the world in my opinion.

&&&

I have to agree. I feel like a fuddy duddy for saying so but so be it. And I'm as guilty as the next as being part of it. We have so much crap we don't need. We are buying bigger, better, more expensive things like crazy. Apple really is a great example and I freely admit I'm an Apple gal. That iphone is 600 dollars. 600 dollars!! For a phone! At minimum $200 IF you are at the end of your contract and are willing to sing your firstborn over to them. When you could just go get a cell phone that makes calls and texts for nothing and pay next to nothing for pay per use? How many people really are content with the basic cell phone though? Not many.

It was said early on in the program that like the stock market, like many great things, there is a bubble, and that bubble tends to burst. Same with the bumper crop farming. They farmed and farmed and made way too much and the bubble burst. I think the consumerism bubble will burst eventually. Eventually, people cannot keep up with these purchases. Going back to the Apple example, we may see a great rise and fall of that company if the bubble does burst and people just cannot afford them anymore and they have to drive prices so low. Could happen, watch for it. What goes up usually comes down.

I feel like a glutton when I see the wonderful photos in this program of the houses. Interiors were a stove, a sink, a basin, a table, a vase, It's so simple. Did we ever live like this?

On another topic Life of Pi. Friend of mine worked on it. He was in the swimming pool with the child actor making sure he was safe, comfortable, not too cold on long shooting days. Yea for people who keep child actors safe on sets.

Greedy Gosselins said...

I guess the point that I'm making is that having gone through a contentious break up, I am even MORE concerned, worried about and planning for the future of my one child.

Maybe I should have gone to Hawaii instead.

The whole situation with these two idjits is, I agree, very frustrating indeed.

I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Not at all. I just don't relate to Jon and the way he acted and the things he did after he and the evil one split up.

Kate is a mucking fess for sure but I think Jon is immature, impulsive and perhaps shady.

Again, I know that's not a popular opinion here. I can't seem to find the right words or way to explain myself so I'll let it go. It's obviously *my* issue. LOL

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

So, if you go to a friend's wedding for one weekend in Hawaii and see your family and it's not your custodial time, you're not concerned or worried about your children? Sorry, can't agree with that.

We have always even said here by all means Kate go to NYC or shoot some cover in Mexico or whatever as long as you aren't leaving the children on your custodial time....and as long as you are not spending THEIR money to do so. It would bother me just as much if Kate got her hair done locally if she were spending an outrageous amount on it. I don't think Kate is concerned about her kids but it's not because she took one trip to Mexico.

I don't think anyone disagrees both parents have had moments where they were immature or impulsive. What *I* don't understand is the obsession with a few questionable decisions that happened three years ago. It would be one thing if someone were constantly taking off to Hawaii, Utah and France. They're not. It happened once. Three years ago. Same would go for Kate if she took off to NYC once three years ago. It's the repeated behavior, month in and month out, that forms my opinion of someone. Judging a subset of behavior from a specific moment in time that for the most part has never been repeated since, is in my opinion a grossly unfair representation of who a person is as a whole.

And it goes both ways too. You can't do one or two nice things for a few weeks and expect it to make a difference in how someone feels about you as a whole. Just like that sheep that popped in to point out Kate said thank you. Big whoop. It's simply not enough to counter everything else horrid abut her. It's just one subset of her.

I guess the difference in how I look at it as I try to look at the big picture of a person instead of being hung up on specific things. That's typically how I judge people in real life too, try not to dwell forever on one or two things that bother me and rather assess a person for who they are as a whole.

Heide said...

Admin, 185, well said. People make mistakes. Some people learn and don't make them again. That seems to me to be Jon. Some people keep making them over and over. That seems to me to be Kate.

My dad wasn't perfect, but he was my soft place to fall and I loved him. I think that's what the Gosselin kids think of their dad too. To me, that's the important thing.

Greedy Gosselins said...

So, if you go to a friend's wedding for one weekend in Hawaii and see your family and it's not your custodial time, you're not concerned or worried about your children? Sorry, can't agree with that.

""""""""""""""""

It wasn't just the Hawaii trip. Getting the apartment in another state made no sense either. It's the combination of bad decisions. Hailey included.

Because of these stupid decisions and spending money he shouldn't have, now he's feeling the pain. Remember when he said he was going to be homeless? I mean, I can't feel sorry for someone who created his own mess whether it happened yesterday or 3 years ago.

I'm not obsessed with it. I was just throwing my comment in here with all the others.

Something else I don't understand is why people defend him so much.

Can one despise Kate and not like Jon at the same time? 'Cause that's where I'm at. I don't see my opinion changing soon. Hell, I'm not over either of them for even STARTING the reality show much less keeping it going so long in obvious turmoil.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. See? Who said therapy didn't work? LOL

Starz22 said...

Greedy Gosselins...

I think you want to blame Jon for the mis-use of money as much as kate.
Sorry...I can't.Jon was NEVER in control of the family s money.kate was the one who had ALL the control.
When the divorce came,kate got all the money.I don't understand why she did...the 8 are Jon's too..BUT Kate got everything...the money,house,kids,and all the control.
Yes...Jon went wild for a bit.He has gotten his shit together and is trying to lead a normal life for and with his kids.
We don't see Jon wasting money like kate still does. Nanny's,personal chefs,lawn people,pool people,expensive hair treatments,day trips,ect ect.
I believe Jon is the lessor of 2 evils.The kids NEED one parent with a clue. And that is Jon.The kids can't focus on what happened 3 years ago...they need NOW...reality.I believe Jon is the best one to give it to them.
Kate spends every waking moment grifting,begging,and praying someone will give the kids another job.
We barely see Jon...and when we do...he's just being a dad...not a pimp.

Vanessa said...

Hold on, hold on Milo! khate's "personal chef" does the cooking for 9. Even if khate does do the cooking once in awhile, it's always a one pot glop of crap, easy peazy. Plus, it's never the amount any one of us would make to feed NINE, cripes, she feeds them like they're pet birds. She doesn't have a grown man to feed either, and when she DID (well Jon anyways, we can talk about ratclaws/pizza another time)she monitored and controlled what the poor guy ate anyways! Jon was caught "lying" to her about going out to lunch? Just what does she think is going to happen with those kids?

Vanessa said...

Mel said "She thinks it all should just be handed to her, cuz she birthed 8 kids. Or maybe just because she exists."
You said it right there, classis naricssist belief of being "special", the chosen one, destined for great things...right down to her name being "kate" and the "miracle" of having EIGHT kids...to her, they rhyme is NO coincidence.

Vanessa said...

Remona Blue said "As far as I know, my mother never confronted her mother about the food hoarding, because she understood why it happened."
My sister works for our community's senior resource center and hoarding is a huuuuge issue with the older seniors, especially ones who live alone. A lot of the homes she visits are exactly like the ones on the Hoarders show, a waiting death trap. A survival method for a lot of them that's gone too far and nobody to keep it in check. (ps-I also rewash aluminum foil, plastic wrap, baggies etc. :)

TLC stinks said...

A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about himself while pretending to be another person.[1] The term now includes other uses of misleading online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a third party or organization,[2] or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website. A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym[3] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer.

I have read that they are easy to create. Sounds like something right up Kate's alley to keep her Twitter account active between sheeple and nonfans.

Anonymous said...


This thread has reminded me of a very powerful contemporary fiction book called Winter Garden by Kristin Hannah.

It's a story about a women trying to save her children during World War II in St. Petersburg. The city had been completely cut off and everyone was starving. The men had left to fight in the war, it was a city of women and children trying to survive. It's written as flashbacks, set against her relationship with her adult daughters after she escaped/moved to the United States.

Tread carefully, the book haunted me for weeks, and also made me cry. But it was such a terrible, terrible time in history, and the book is so beautifully written, truly amazing book. It should be read in upper level high school/college.

Here's an excerpt of an essay the author wrote about the book:

" To write Winter Garden, I had to research not only the effect of the war on Leningrad, I had to become completely familiar with the people who lived there before the war. I read dozens of books about Stalin’s regime, the Great Reign of Terror, and the disappearances that terrified everyone. It was really important for me to understand the Communist mentality because it informs the choices that people made. After years of terror, the citizens had learned not to question their government. Thus, when Stalin ordered the evacuation of the children of Leningrad, it was done. It’s true that mothers put their children on trains, with their names pinned to their coats, with no real idea where those trains were going and when they would see their children again, if ever. It’s true that several of those trains were sent directly into German troops and bombed. It’s also true that Leningrad became a city of women during the siege—men, except for the very young and the very old—were off to fight the Germans.

In writing Winter Garden, it was my goal to take this epic, tragic event and personalize it as much as possible. I wanted to give you all this story of survival and loss, horror and heartache in a way that would allow you to experience it with some measure of emotion. I am not a historian, nor a non fiction writer. My hope is that you leave this novel informed, but not merely with the facts and figures; rather, I want you to be able to actually imagine it, to ask yourself how you would have fared in such terrible times."

heather

Mel said...

For me, and I realize that I'm in the minority on this blog, it's hard to have a lot of compassion for Jon's current financial woes. But I have some. And I have a tremendous amount of compassion for him as an abused spouse. (Ask me how I know that. Let's justnsaymthat I recognized that dynamic from day one.)
Yeah, he appeared to not be fiscally responsible there for a few months around the time of the divorce. But, I think he expected to continue making the easy, big bucks for just existing, and had NO idea how much TLC and Kate were going to be vengeful about that and stop it.
And while it does seem terribly unfair that Kate appeared to get almost everything...the house, the bbb, most of the money, custody of the kids (who she didn't even want, it was just so Jon *couldn't* have them, imo)...Jon seemed to have *some* money, which was spent irresponsibly. The fancy little 2 seater car, the NYC apartment (although personally I think TLC had something to do with that), the trips, perhaps funded by others or perhaps not, hooking up with Hailey, which wasn't a frugal lifestyle.
For that period of time, it was the combination of behaviors, not any one behavior that was the problem. It seemed like he made one bad decision after another. Hooking up with Michael Lohan? And that atty who wasn't even licensed in PA.
If he wasn't left with much money, and he may not have been, why spend it foolishly? There's more to being a good dad than being nice to the kids. He needed to plan for a future without much money, although I'm not sure that that was apparent to him at the time.
OTH, why should a few months of reckless behavior erase everything good that he has done before and since then? After he got that out of his system, he seems to have gotten his act together and has had several *years* of responsible (more or less) behavior. Unlike our lovely Ms. Kate, who has had several years of increasingly *worse* behavior.
I'm not overly compassionate about the financial woes because he brought some of it on himself, but Kate and TLC have rained scorched earth upon him, depriving him of any opportunity to get ahead. They should be ashamed of themselves.
I would like to think that history will judge Jon not for the blip where he was nuts, but for the much longer time that he has done the right thing.

Anonymous said...


I was a little disappointed in that there wasn't a lot of time spent explaining why the dust bowl happened. I would've like more "science" in the documentary, especially when the huge dust storm reached the Atlantic Ocean or explaining exactly what dust pneumonia was, why some survived, etc.

I would have also liked a bit more info on the "suitcase farmers" as that is a term that is new to me, and I found it interesting.

I can only take so much of the firsthand accounts as they tend to be repetitive and also just so heartbreaking.

Looking forward to watching tonight's show, though.

heather

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

It wasn't just the Hawaii trip. Getting the apartment in another state made no sense either. It's the combination of bad decisions. Hailey included.

===============

Nobody knows what the arrangement was with TLC on that apartment, or on leasing the car, or on trips. It's quite possible that TLC had an arrangement with him on financing, perhaps just to get him out of their hair. They had a bottomless pit when it came to funding. To blame Jon for recklessly spending his money on those things without knowing exactly who paid for what is just speculation.

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said...

There is a new post fyi

Buttercup said...

Someone (sorry cannot find who!) mentioned earlier that the Wikipedia page for Kate needed to be updated. I was just looking through the archive page and found this hilarious tidbit:

Kate Gosselin

How tall is she compared to Jon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.234.22 (talk) 22:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

She is like 7 feet tall; I think he is 4 inches tall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.188.159.10 (talk) 03:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I came to this page with a sense of outrage - but you, sir, just made my day. Thanks for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.128.190.96 (talk) 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The archive can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kate_Gosselin/Archive_1