Wednesday, October 23, 2013

Jon's attorney's second motion to dismiss filed

A pre-trial conference was held yesterday in Kate's ongoing lawsuit against Jon and Robert Hoffman. On that date Jon's attorney Shawn Tuma also filed his second Federal Rules of Court 12(b)(6) Motion to Dismiss, and Robert Hoffman also filed a joinder to the motion to dismiss.

The full text of the motion from PACER is here:

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 1 of 26
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN, ) ) Plaintiff, )
  • )  CIVIL ACTION v. )
  • )  NO.: 13:4989 JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN, ROBERT )
    HOFFMAN, and JOHN AND JANE DOES ) 1-20 ) ) Defendants. )
    DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
    Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin (“Jon”, “Jonathan,” or “Defendant”), by and through his attorneys, BrittonTuma and Orwig Law Offices, files Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Brief in Support of Motion to Dismiss First Amended Complaint.
I. PROCEDURAL HISTORY
This is Defendant’s second motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s claims. On September 18, 2013, Defendant filed Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3] seeking dismissal of all of Plaintiff’s claims in the Complaint [Dkt. 1]. Rather than respond to the first motion, on October 2, 2013, Plaintiff filed the First Amended Complaint [Dkt. 10] and withdrew four of the eight claims. Of the remaining claims, two are participatory and premised on the two substantive claims: (1) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and (2) Invasion of Privacy.
In deciding this Motion to Dismiss, the Court faces the following six questions to answer:
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 1 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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II. PRIMARY QUESTIONS PRESENTED
Limitations Bars All Claims. The limitations period for all of Plaintiff’s claims is two years or less. On October 15, 2009, Plaintiff issued a public statement addressing the same allegations she makes in this lawsuit. Plaintiff filed this lawsuit nearly four years later, on August 26, 2013.
Question 1: Are Plaintiff’s claims time-barred?
Satisfaction of CFAA Threshold $5,000 Loss. The CFAA requires Plaintiff to plead she sustained a loss aggregating at least $5,000 during any 1-year period. Plaintiff did not allege any specific time period during which she alleges she sustained the loss.
Question 2: Did Plaintiff plead a $5,000 loss during any 1-year?
Under the CFAA, loss means cost of remedial measures taken related to impairment or damage to a computer or data (including online accounts). Plaintiff alleged information was taken from a computer, not that a computer was impaired or damaged.
Question 3: If there was no impairment or damage to a computer, could Plaintiff have sustained a loss?
Plaintiff alleges the loss is (1) the cost of her time spent investigating and assessing harm caused by the access (but not harm to the computers), (2) lost revenue, and (3) consequential damages. Plaintiff’s time was not spent investigating or repairing damage to a computer or data. Lost revenue and consequential damages cannot be a loss unless there was interruption of service. Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Question 4: Where there is no damage to a computer or data and no interruption of service, can loss be comprised of time spent investigating, lost revenue, and consequential damages?
Satisfaction of CFAA Access. The CFAA prohibits unauthorized access of computer or online information, not misuse or misappropriation. Plaintiff’s access allegations are speculative, naked assertions that do not specify the computer or account accessed, when accessed, or how access was accomplished.
Question 5: Do conclusory allegations of logging into an unspecified “email account” or “bank account” suffice to state a CFAA wrongful access claim?
Publicity Given to Private Life Requires Information Be True. To state a claim for public disclosure of private facts it is essential that the facts disclosed be true. Plaintiff does not allege the facts disclosed are true but claims some are false and defamatory.
Question 6: Unless Plaintiff alleges the facts disclosed are true, can she state a claim for publicity given to private life?
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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III. STATEMENT OF RELEVANT FACTS
On June 12, 1999, Jonathan K. Gosselin and Katie I. Gosselin (“Kate”) were married. Kate is a registered nurse, last working in the nursing industry in December 2006. Jonathan is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, last working in the information technology industry in November 2007, as an information technology analyst for the Pennsylvania Governor’s Office.
While married, Jonathan and Kate lived together in the same home. In their home was a Dell desktop computer (the “Dell Computer”) that Jonathan purchased in 2002, which is licensed to Jonathan. The Dell Computer had a Microsoft Windows XP operating system and Microsoft Office software, both of which were licensed to Jonathan. Jonathan was always the Administrator of the Dell Computer; Kate was only a Power User and had no administrative permissions. Jonathan’s Dell Computer eventually became the Gosselin family computer and the children began playing on it using either Jonathan’s account or Kate’s account.
Jonathan regularly backed up the hard drive of the Dell Computer and the backups were saved to CD ROM or DVD discs. The backups included .pst files containing Personal Folders belonging to Jonathan and Kate which were stored in the Microsoft Outlook email program under the following directory: C:/Documents and Settings/outlook.
On June 22, 2009, Kate filed for divorce. After Kate filed for divorce, Jonathan moved out of the family home and into an apartment above the garage of the family home (the “Apartment”); Jonathan left his Dell Computer in the family home for continued use by his children. Jonathan was still permitted access to the family home during this time. On or about April 2010, Jonathan observed the hard drive of his Dell Computer was failing so he performed a backup of it and stored the data on DVD discs. Jonathan created two copies of the DVDs, one for himself and one for Kate. These final backup DVDs included family pictures, business contracts, and other information. The backup DVDs were labeled and dated for archival purposes.
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Once the divorce was final, Jonathan was required to move from the Apartment; Kate continued living in the family home. When Jonathan moved from the Apartment, he left Kate’s copy of the backup DVDs in the Apartment in a box along with other items he believed Kate would want. He informed Kate that the DVDs were in the box. The following day Kate contacted Jonathan and asked if he would be returning for any other items left in the Apartment; he responded that he was not and she could keep or discard the items as she saw fit. The children volunteered to Jonathan that Kate (and her friend) threw away in the trash everything left behind in the Apartment (presumably, including Kate’s copy of the DVDs that Jonathan left behind). Jonathan has not wrongfully accessed any computer, online accounts, or telephone belonging to Kate—it is far more plausible that Kate threw out the DVDs in the trash herself.
Shortly thereafter, the hard drive of Jonathan’s Dell Computer failed. Jonathan destroyed the hard drive in a manner consistent with his training by taking it apart, removing the physical disc, physically destroying the physical disc, and then discarding the pieces away separate from the actual hard drive device.
IV. ARGUMENTS AND AUTHORITIES
A. The First Amended Complaint Fails To Meet The Minimum Legal Standards Required To Survive A Rule 12(b)(6) Motion To Dismiss.
1. Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint consists of little more than threadbare recitals of the elements of causes of action and conclusory statements.
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) provides that a complaint must be dismissed if it fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. While a court considering a motion to dismiss is required to review the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, there are minimal standards that must be met. Conclusory allegations, legal conclusions couched as factual allegations, or mere recitation of the elements of a cause of action, are not entitled to such presumption.
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Even under the liberal notice pleading standards of Rule 8, a plaintiff must provide sufficient factual allegations to demonstrate a plausible claim for relief prior to the court unlocking the doors to expensive discovery. “[T]he pleading standard Rule 8 announces does not require ‘detailed factual allegations,’ but it demands more than an unadorned, the-defendant- unlawfully-harmed-me accusation.” Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009) (quoting Bell Atl. Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555-56, (2007)).
In Iqbal, the Supreme Court provided a concise guide with three steps for courts to follow when considering a motion to dismiss. The Court draws a key distinction between what it calls “conclusory allegations” and “factual allegations” and treats them very differently. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 680-81. The Court began its analysis with what is often referred to as “the two-pronged approach” set forth in Twombly, 550 U.S. at 556, and expounded upon it to further explain the steps for reviewing a motion to dismiss: (1) reject the “bald allegations” because bald allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true; (2) considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.” See id. at 679-82.
a) Reject the “bald allegations” because “bald allegations” are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.
In Iqbal, the Court explained the principles for why the “bald allegations” must be rejected. “First, the tenet that a court must accept as true all of the allegations contained in a complaint is inapplicable to legal conclusions. Threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements, do not suffice.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. Rule 8 does not unlock the doors of discovery for a plaintiff armed with nothing more than conclusions. Id. at 678-79.
Reviewing the complaint at issue in Iqbal, the Court stated “[w]e begin our analysis by identifying the allegations in the complaint that are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. at
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680. The Court then looked at the following allegations: (1) “petitioners ‘knew of, condoned, and willfully and maliciously agreed to subject [him]’ to harsh conditions of confinement ‘as a matter of policy, solely on account of [his] religion, race, and/or national origin and for no legitimate penological interest.’” (2) “Ashcroft was the ‘principal architect’ of this invidious policy, and [] Mueller was ‘instrumental’ in adopting and executing it.” Id. at 680-81. The Court referred to these as “bare assertions, much like the pleading of conspiracy in Twombly, amount[ing] to nothing more than a ‘formulaic recitation of the elements’ of a constitutional discrimination claim, namely, that petitioners adopted a policy ‘”because of,” not merely “in spite of,” its adverse effects upon an identifiable group.’ As such, the allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.” Id. at 681.
The Court made it very clear, however, that it was “not reject[ing] these bald allegations on the ground that they are unrealistic or nonsensical.” Id. Instead, “[i]t is the conclusory nature of [the] allegations rather than their extravagantly fanciful nature, that disentitles them to the presumption of truth.” Id. In other words, the Court declared war on “bald allegations” because of their conclusory nature.
b) Considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.”
Next consider only the “factual allegations” in the complaint to determine if they plausibly suggest an entitlement to relief. Id. at 681. “Determining whether a complaint states a plausible claim for relief will . . . be a context-specific task that requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense. But where the well-pleaded facts do not permit the court to infer more than the mere possibility of misconduct, the complaint has alleged—but it has not ‘show[n]’—‘that the pleader is entitled to relief.’” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 679.
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The complaint in Iqbal contained “factual allegations” that, taken as true, were consistent with the plaintiff’s claim for relief but that was not the end of analysis. There were more likely explanations which explained those events in a way that made the “factual allegations” not plausible. The plausibility requirement is what made the difference between granting and denying the motion to dismiss. That is, the Court found there were factual allegations that supported the plaintiff’s theory of the case and that there were alternative theories as well. Relying upon its common sense and judicial experience, the Court compared a “’obvious alternative explanation’” to the theory advanced by the plaintiff and inferred that the theory advanced by the plaintiff was not a plausible conclusion. Id. at 682.
The Court went deeper into the analysis. It reasoned that even if the factual allegations supporting the plaintiff’s theory had given rise to a plausible inference in its favor, that inference alone would not entitle it to relief. Id. The Court then went a level deeper into the discrete nuances of the specific claims pleaded by the plaintiff to see if the complaint contained sufficient factual allegations to support not only the claims in general, but the discrete nuances of the claims as well. Id. The Court found that the complaint failed to do so. The complaint failed to “’nudg[e]’” the claim “’across the line from conceivable to plausible.’” Id. at 683 (quoting Twombly, 550 U.S. at 570). Where the factual allegations fail to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible, the pleading is inadequate.
c) 3 Questions: “no” to any of these questions requires dismissal.
In summary, the Court’s Iqbal analysis provides 3 questions to ask when analyzing a complaint to determine if it fails to state a claim:
1. Ignoring all “bald allegations” and “legal conclusions,” do the “factual allegations” support the elements of the claim?
2. If so, does common sense and judicial experience suggest the plaintiff’s theory of the claim is plausible or that there are more likely alternative explanations?
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3. If not, are the factual allegations supporting the discrete nuances of the claim strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible?
A “no” to any of these questions means the allegations in the complaint do not meet the Supreme Court’s Iqbal standards and must be dismissed. Two exemplary cases demonstrate that Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint does not make it past the first question.
2. Two exemplary cases show why the Amended Complaint is too vague and conclusory to support the claims, suggest her theory is plausible, or nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible.
The factual weakness of Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint is analogous to the Amended Complaint in JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter, 931 F. Supp.2d. 514 (S.D.N.Y. 2013), and Complaint in Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards In Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010). The JBCHoldings and Smith courts dismissed the complaints because they contained only vague and conclusory allegations and speculation as to actual facts.
In JBCHoldings, the court addressed the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim urged in this case. The court found that some of the CFAA claims were deficient as a matter of law, but that others could have been viable had the Amended Complaint not been too conclusory and speculative to pass muster. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525. “These are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’ that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss.... [a]lthough the plausibility requirement ‘is not akin to a “probability requirement” ... it asks for more than a sheer possibility that a defendant has acted unlawfully.’ Plaintiff’s pleadings are repeatedly couched in terms of sheer possibility, otherwise known as conjecture.” Id. at 526.
The Smith court rejected similar conclusory allegations where the Plaintiff had not made any factual averments regarding interception of his communications for a Wiretap Act claim, which is as vital to that claim as allegations of access are for the CFAA. The court found Plaintiff’s own allegations demonstrated his claim was a mere fishing expedition for liability: “Plaintiff does not know the exact reason for being blocked. It may be due to eavesdropping or
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some other reason. It is also possible that all reports, blocking and blacklisting are erroneous and no eavesdropping took place.Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11. “What Plaintiff has alleged in effect is the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability. Absent facts to support his speculation, he is not entitled to discovery to see what he may find.” Id.
Compare the substance of Plaintiff’s allegations to those in JBCHoldings and Smith.
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Amended Complaint
“Jon illegally hacked into Kate’s email account, and her phone, and bank accounts.” Am. Compl. p. 1.
“Jon began accessing Kate’s password protected email [and banking] account without her authorization.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11, 14.
“On information and belief, Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone.” Am. Compl. ¶ 24.
“On information and belief, Jon’s unauthorized access to known password protected accounts through the Internet has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶ 25.
“In reality, Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 ... hacked into Kate Gosselin’s various accounts– and the protected computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 32.
“On information and belief, Defendants Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 illegally accessed Kate’s computers confidential data ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 38.
“Jon Gosselin, and potentially others ... improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password, without authorization to access the contents of those accounts and the computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
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JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter
“someone, currently believed to be Janou, or one of her agents, placed a flash memory drive on JBC and JP computer servers ... in an effort to surreptitiously rip information from the drives.” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525-26.
“Plaintiffs' technology personnel found spyware and malware on Plaintiffs' servers. They believe the spyware to have been possibly remotely placed. Further, they believe it possible that information was taken remotely by Janou and Puglia. Indeed, according to IT personnel, Janou could have passed along her login-information to Puglia, in excess of her authorized use, which would explain the placement, remotely of spyware or the remote removal of Plaintiffs' data.” Id. at 526.
“upon information and belief, ‘all Defendants’ have been using the two notebooks belonging to plaintiffs that Janou has yet to return.” Id.
Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards
“by monitoring Plaintiff's Internet communications and/or allowing third parties to do so.” Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11.
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The allegations in the Amended Complaint are more conclusory and speculative than those in JBCHoldings, Smith, and Iqbal. There are no factual averments that identify any specific computer or online account that was accessed, when they were accessed, or how information needed to accomplish the access was obtained. This is exacerbated by the frequent “information and belief” allegations demonstrating Plaintiff is speculating.
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Perhaps most telling is the allegation “Hoffman falsely claimed in certain publications that he recovered the data from Kate’s computer by digging through her trash that he found on the street. . . . The materials in his possession could not possibly be physically found in paper format to that extent. If Hoffman was picking through trash on the street, he did not find this trove of personal information while engaging in his trash-picking endeavors.” Am. Compl. ¶ 31. This is not a factual allegation. This is rationalization. This is conjecture. This is speculation—as to why it had to be hacking—because how else could it have happened, right? Or, is there a more plausible alternative explanation?
The JBCHoldings case involved a similar rationalization that was not lost on the court: “Plaintiffs allege that during Janou’s alleged scheme, she was employed by JBC and had ready access to the proprietary information at issue. She could have ... simply copied the information to her personal laptop and shared it with her co-conspirators. This would have obviated the need for her to resort to the type of elaborate ‘outside hacker’ activities in which plaintiffs alternatively speculate she engaged ....” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. At least in JBCHoldings the plaintiff offered an explanation for how the defendant was alleged to have wrongfully accessed the computers. Not so here. In the case at bar, Plaintiff says her login information was used but does not even offer a speculative guess as to how Defendants gained access to that information. Was it a Trojan horse? DDoS attack? Malware? Social engineering? Clairvoyance? We have no idea—neither does Plaintiff.
Plaintiff recites the gist of Defendant Hoffman’s explanation for how he obtained the information—he found the data discs containing the information in Plaintiff’s trash. See Hoffman Ans. ¶ 30 [Dkt. 4]. Yet, she expects the Court to disregard this plausible explanation based only on her conjecture as to what may have been possible—yet, after two tries, Plaintiff
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cannot allege how the access occurred, i.e., how did Defendants have the information to access the computers?
Plaintiff’s allegations are classic “unadorned, the-defendant-unlawfully-harmed-me accusation[s].” See Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 662. They are inadequate to provide a reasonable basis for inferring that Defendants are liable for the misconduct alleged. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. Plaintiff has alleged the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible. Absent facts to support her speculation, she is not entitled to discovery to see what she may find. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards in Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456, at *11 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010); See JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. Plaintiff’s claims are pure speculation, a fishing expedition, and should be treated as such.
3. A complaint premised upon information and belief allegations, without real factual support, will not survive a motion to dismiss.
Allegations made upon information and belief, without factual support, do not allow the court “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged,” Sinaltrainal v. Coca-Cola Co., 578 F.3d 1252, 1268 (11th Cir. 2009), and thus do not show that the pleader is entitled to relief. Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009); See Wright v. Lehigh Valley Hosp. & Health Network, Inc., 2011 WL 2550361, at *3 (E.D. Pa. June 23, 2011).
In limited situations where the essential facts are uniquely within the control of the defendant and not capable of being pleaded by the plaintiff, courts have made an exception and held pleading upon information and belief to be appropriate under the Twombly/Iqbal regime. Klein v. County of Bucks, 2013 WL 1310877 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 1, 2013). Even then, however, the plaintiff must plead “a proper factual basis asserted to support the beliefs pled.” Wright, 2011 WL 2550361, at *3; see JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. But, where the “averments are
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merely ‘a formulaic recitation of the elements of a cause of action’ ... [r]eliance by [Plaintiff] on information and belief cannot transform legal conclusions into plausible factual allegations.” Id.
This is not a case where the essential facts are uniquely within the Defendants’ control and not capable of being pleaded by Plaintiff. The exception by which information and belief allegations may survive a motion to dismiss is inapplicable. Whatever information lies behind Plaintiff’s suspicions has been within Plaintiff’s control—most likely in her own trash.
4. Key Allegations Are Not Relevant To The Causes of Action.
Plaintiff’s allegations must be carefully scrutinized. Some key allegations are not relevant to the claims pleaded. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants wrongfully accessed her cellphone, Am. Compl. p. 1, ¶¶ 24, 52, but does not claim access to the cellphone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim. Id. ¶¶ 44-51. Plaintiff implies that information from the cellphone was wrongfully disclosed, id. ¶¶ 55-57, yet asserts no causes of action premised on such activity being wrongful to make it so. Plaintiff makes similar allegations regarding the stealing of a hard drive, id. p. 1, ¶¶ 17, 18, and likewise asserts no causes of action premised upon the activity. Allegations regarding the cellphone and hard drive are irrelevant to the claims in this lawsuit.
B. All of Plaintiff’s Claims are Time-Barred and Should Be Dismissed.
All of Plaintiff’s claims have either a one or two year limitations period and are time- barred.1 The lawsuit was filed on August 26, 2013. Plaintiff was aware of and publicly commented on the allegations in this lawsuit roughly four years ago—at least as early as 2009.
The essential allegations underlying Plaintiff’s claims in the Amended Complaint are that
1 The law of this Circuit permits a statute of limitations defense to be raised by a motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6), if it is obvious from the face of the complaint that the cause of action has not been timely asserted. See Kelly v. Eckerd Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. Lexis 4381, *8 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 11, 2004); First Am. Mktg. Corp. v. Canella, 2004 WL 25037, *5 (E.D. Pa. Jan. 26, 2004) (quoting Robinson v. Johnson, 313 F.3d 128, 135 (3rd Cir. 2002)); Demetrius v. Marsh, 560 F. Supp. 1157, 1159 (E.D. Pa. 1983).
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Defendant accessed Kate’s (1) “password protected email account,” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11-12, (2) “online, password-protected banking accounts,” Am. Compl. ¶ 14, and (3) cellphone, Am. Compl. ¶ 16. Those are the same three allegations Plaintiff publicly addressed in 2009.
The public record is replete with Plaintiff’s and Plaintiff’s then-attorneys’ statements regarding the exact allegations claimed in this lawsuit dating back to 2009:
"Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin [1] 'hacked' into her e-mails, [2] phone, and [3] online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them," her law firm, Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, said in a statement Thursday. "Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right." 2
The foregoing statement by Plaintiff’s then-attorney is on a website dated October 15, 2009.3
1. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim is time-barred.
The statute of limitations for Plaintiff’s Computer Fraud and Abuse Act civil claim is two years. “No action may be brought under this subsection unless such action is begun within 2 years of [1] the date of the act complained of or [2] the date of discovery of the damage.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). The relevant date for this inquiry is the date of the act complained up because there is no allegation of damage in this case. The limitations period for Plaintiff to assert this claim expired two years after the alleged wrongful access alleged—which necessarily had to occur on or before October 15, 2009 when Plaintiff publicly acknowledged the allegations— nearly four years before she filed this lawsuit.
2 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
3 Kate Gosselin Considering Legal Options Against Jon After Reading Radar Report,
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/10/kate-gosselin-considering-legal-options-against-jon-after-reading-radar- report/
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 13 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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2. The State law claims are time-barred.
Plaintiff asserts state law tort claims against Defendants for Invasion of Privacy (Count II), Civil Conspiracy (Count III), and Concerted Tortious Action (Count IV). Under Pennsylvania law, the invasion of privacy claim has a one-year limitation period: “The following actions and proceedings must be commenced within one year . . . An action for libel, slander or invasion of privacy.” 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 5523 (West).
Plaintiff’s claims for conspiracy and concerted tortious activity do not stand alone; each participatory and are dependent upon either the CFAA claim or the Invasion of Privacy claim. If those claims are time-barred, so too are the conspiracy and concerted tortious activity claims, both of which independently have two-year limitation periods as well: “[C]laims of . . . civil conspiracy, and concerted tortious conduct . . . . have a two-year limitations period that begins to run on the date of injury.” Brock v. Thomas, 782 F. Supp. 2d 133, 140-41 (E.D. Pa. 2011).
3. The Court may take judicial notice of Plaintiff’s awareness in 2009 of the allegations underlying this lawsuit—it is publicly available information that is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination.
A basic Google search produces numerous results for Plaintiff’s statement by her attorney in 2009 stating her awareness of the allegations now made in this lawsuit and how, at the time, she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right.”4 This event is common knowledge and undeniable.
Precedent in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania demonstrates that the Court may take judicial notice of information such as these websites where the matter is in the public domain and is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination. See Wilson v. City of
4 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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Philadelphia, 2010 WL 1254111 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 31, 2010), vacated in part on other grounds, 415 Fed. Appx. 434 (3d Cir. 2011). The Wilson Court was considering a motion to dismiss premised on official immunity issues that required facts concerning the dates and roles of defendant’s prior employment. This information was not available in the complaint or any incorporated documents. In granting the motion to dismiss, the court took judicial notice of information from the defendant’s biography page on a law firm’s website. Id. at n.4.
Similarly, in Inman v. Technicolor USA, Inc., 2011 WL 5829024 (W.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2011), the court was considering a motion to dismiss concerning the interpretation of a website User Agreement that was neither attached to the complaint nor specifically referenced therein but the court determined that it was proper to take judicial notice of the website in granting the motion to dismiss. Id. at 3-4.
4. The information properly before the Court shows that in 2009, Plaintiff was aware of the allegations in this lawsuit and all of her claims are time-barred.
The timeline of the case is straightforward. In 2009, Plaintiff was aware of allegations that “Jon Gosselin 'hacked' into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts,” she was profoundly disturbed by them, and she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right."5 Now, nearly four years later, Plaintiff has apparently determined that the time is right but it is too late. Plaintiff’s claims should be dismissed with prejudice.
5 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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C. The Amended Complaint Does Not Adequately Plead “Loss” or “Access”—Two Essential Elements of a CFAA Civil Claim (Count I).
In Count 1 of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff seeks to avail itself of the civil remedy of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c). Am. Compl. ¶ 41. The elements of a civil claim for a violation of section 1030(a)(2) require Plaintiff to plead and prove that Defendants: (1) intentionally accessed a protected computer, (2) without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and that he (3) thereby obtained information (4) from any protected computer, and that (5) there was a loss to one or more persons during any 1- year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value. See Sealord Holdings, Inc. v. Radler, 2012 WL 707075, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 6, 2012). The Amended Complaint fails to identify any specific computer or account that was allegedly accessed, how it was accessed, when it was accessed, or that there was a $5,000 loss during any 1-year.
1. The Court does not have jurisdiction to consider the CFAA claim because Plaintiff does not meet the $5,000 loss threshold requirement.
In order to bring a civil claim under the CFAA, Plaintiff must plead that, during any 1- year period, she sustained a loss of at least $5,000 because of the CFAA violation. Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3d Cir. 2012); A.V. ex rel Vanderhyne v. iParadigms, LLC, 562 F.3d 630, 646 (4th Cir. 2009). The loss requirement is a jurisdictional threshold that must be satisfied before the court is vested with jurisdiction to decide the case even if the damages are in the millions. See Quantlab Techs. Ltd. (BVI) v. Godlevsky, 719 F. Supp.2d 766, 776 (S.D. Tex. 2010). The reason for the loss requirement is because the CFAA is primarily a criminal statute that only has a limited civil remedy.
To successfully plead a civil CFAA claim a plaintiff must strictly adhere to the multi-step requirements of the statutory framework. First, section 1030(g) provides that “[a]ny person who suffers damage or loss by reason of a violation of this section may maintain a civil action against
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the violator to obtain compensatory damages and injunctive relief or other equitable relief.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). Second, section 1030(g) goes on to state that “[a] civil action for a violation of this section may be brought only if the conduct involves 1 of the factors set forth in subclauses (I), (II), (III), (IV), or (V) of subsection (c)(4)(A)(i).” Id. Third, looking at the five subsection (c)(4)(A)(i) factors, the only one applicable to the case at bar is (I): “loss to 1 or more persons during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). A plaintiff must satisfy each of these steps for a civil remedy and the critical inquiry is, was there a loss?
Loss is a specialized term that the CFAA defines as:
[A]ny reasonable cost to any victim, including the cost of responding to an offense, conducting a damage assessment, and restoring the data, program, system, or information to its condition prior to the offense, and any revenue lost, cost incurred, or other consequential damages incurred because of interruption of service [.]
18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint attempts to invoke sub-clause (I) but the allegation once

again6 misses the mark:
Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin’s computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5,000 in economic losses arising from Jon’s unauthorized use of her password-protected online accounts.” Am. Compl. ¶ 50.
Specifically, Plaintiff's losses arose in the form of the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others' unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers, and the lost revenue and consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation. Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
6 In the Original Complaint Plaintiff alleged "Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin's computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5, 000 worth of damage." Compl. ¶ 47.
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Plaintiff’s second attempt at pleading a loss is inadequate for several reasons.
a) Plaintiff ignores the 1-year time period requirement.
Plaintiff does not allege any loss (or economic losses) was incurred “during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Plaintiff does not address, much less confine her claim to the time period required by the statute.
b) Plaintiff did not allege a loss—loss and economic loss are not the same. Plaintiff alleges $5,000 in economic losses in paragraph 50, and in paragraph 51 adds
specificity to what it previously referred to as economic losses: “Specifically, Plaintiff’s losses arose ....” Am. Comp. ¶¶ 50-51. The CFAA requires a “loss” as defined by the statute. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Not damage or damages, each of which also has its own different meaning under the CFAA. They are not interchangeable. Compare 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(8) (“the term ‘damage’ means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information”), with 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g) (“Any person who suffers damage or loss ... may ... obtain compensatory damages .... Damages ... are limited to economic damages.”), and the definition of loss discussed supra, 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Just as loss is a defined term with a specific meaning under the CFAA, economic losses likewise has a specific, although different meaning. Economic loss means general economic damages. See Lucker Mfg. v. Milwaukee Steel Foundry, 777 F. Supp. 413, 415 (E.D. Pa. 1991) (Economic loss has been defined to include loss due to repair costs, decreased value, and lost profits, consequential damages in the nature of cost of repair or replacement or lost profits, and damages resulting from the loss of the use of the product.) (citations omitted); Palco Linings, Inc. v. Pavex, Inc., 755 F. Supp. 1269, 1276 (M.D. Pa. 1990). Plaintiff’s pleading of $5,000 in economic losses is substantively identical to pleading $5,000 in damages and does not meet the statutory requirement.
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c) The components of Plaintiff’s economic losses do not meet the Third Circuit’s requirement for loss.
The Third Circuit cases are clear on what constitutes a loss. “’Numerous district court decisions in the Third Circuit have held that to fall within this definition of “loss,” the “alleged ‘loss’ must be related to the impairment or damage to a computer or computer system.”’” Brooks v. AM Resorts, LLC, 2013 WL 3343993 (E.D. Pa. July 3, 2013) (citations omitted).
“’A compensable “loss” under the CFAA ... is the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer, or the loss is the amount of lost revenue resulting from a plaintiff's inability to utilize the computer while it was inoperable because of a defendant's misfeasance [i.e., interruption of service].’” Brooks, 2013 WL 3343993, at *5 (citation omitted). Plaintiff does not allege there was an interruption of service. In all other cases, a loss generally means a cost that is directly related to the impairment or damage to the computer, Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5, which Plaintiff has not alleged. Because there was no damage to the computer, “investigating,” “assessing,” and “ensuring the integrity of the information” does not count.
Plaintiff alleges three components to her economic losses: (1) “the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers; (2) “the lost revenue,” and (3) “consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation.” Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
(1) Plaintiff’s own time expended is not a loss for two reasons.
The cost of her time cannot be considered a loss for two distinct reasons. First, a loss is a cost, “the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer” in cases where there is no claim of damage or interruption of service. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff does not allege that there has been damage to a computer (including online services)
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or that there has been an interruption of service. The only thing Plaintiff has alleged is that Defendant copied data from computers—not caused any damage or harm to them. See discussion supra Section IV.C.1.b. She has not alleged that the online services or data were damaged. Time and effort spent investigating and assessing damage to a computer is outside the scope of the loss provision where there was no need to restore data, a program, a system, or information to its condition prior to the Defendant’s conduct. Fink v. Time Warner Cable, 810 F. Supp.2d 633, 641 (S.D.N.Y. 2011).
Second, because there is no allegation of interruption of service, a loss means a cost. Sealord Holdings, Inc., 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff’s own time is not a cost. While there are cases in which plaintiff-businesses claim the value of their employees’ time as a cost, in those cases it is a cost to the business because the business must pay the employee for the time expended. Further, because it must pay its employee, it is able to quantify the value of the time by determining how much the employee makes per hour and multiplying that amount by the time the employee expended. See AssociationVoice, Inc. v. AtHomeNet, Inc., 2011 WL 63508, at *8 (D. Colo. Jan. 6, 2011).
(2) Lost revenue and consequential damages do not qualify as a loss.
Plaintiff’s allegation that lost revenue and consequential damages are a loss is incorrect. It is well settled that lost revenue and consequential damages are not a loss when the Plaintiff has not alleged an interruption of service. Eagle v. Morgan, 2012 WL 4739436, at *3 (E.D. Pa. Oct. 4, 2012) (citation omitted). Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Even if Plaintiff’s time were considered a loss, two of the three components Plaintiff pleads as economic losses are negated. Because Plaintiff includes these two components in her overall allegation of economic losses without segregating or identifying their value vis-à-vis the third component, the Complaint does not adequately allege a $5,000 loss. See Grant Mfg. &
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Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3rd Cir. Oct. 2, 2012); Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 2011 WL 4467767, at *5 n.12 (E.D. Pa. Sept. 23, 2011) aff'd, 499 Fed. Appx. 157 (3d Cir. 2012); Farmers Ins. Exch. v. Auto Club Group, 823 F. Supp. 2d 847, 856 (N.D. Ill. 2011).
d) The loss (i.e., costs) must be reasonable—assuming all other allegations regarding loss were adequate, were they reasonable?
Plaintiff alleges her loss was her time “investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access” of the online email and bank accounts. Am. Compl. ¶ 51. Plaintiff also alleges “Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone . . . [and it] has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 23-24. Plaintiff’s only allegation as to how these were accessed was Defendant “improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password.” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
Basic common sense demands that if your online accounts are being accessed without your authorization, all you need to do is change your password or, at worst, your password and user name. This takes seconds—maybe minutes. Could $5,000 of time even be reasonable for this simple of a fix? Moreover, if she did not do this, could her investigating and assessing be reasonable? And, if she did take this basic first step, how is it that Defendant continues to access these accounts in a continuous and systematic manner? Plaintiff does not say. Considering the circumstances, is it even possible that $5,000 of Plaintiff’s time to, essentially accomplish nothing, was reasonable?
e) After two chances, the Amended Complaint’s loss allegations are still inadequate—dismissal without leave to re-plead is appropriate.
Plaintiff has now had two chances to plead a loss. This issue was specifically challenged on pages 13-15 of Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3]. Plaintiff revised her loss allegations in the Amended Complaint but still failed to plead the requisite loss. “A continued omission of
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this information from Plaintiff's pleadings demonstrates that no such damage existed and that Plaintiff cannot meet its pleading burden under the Act. In that same vein, Plaintiff would have been similarly aware of the existence of any interruption in service as a result of alleged violations under the Act. However, despite the opportunity to amend [her] Complaint, Plaintiff completely failed to plead any such damage or loss. Accordingly, Plaintiff's claim under the Act fails.” Advantage Ambulance Group, Inc. v. Lugo, 2009 WL 839085, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 30, 2009). Plaintiff’s CFAA claim should be dismissed without leave to amend and re-plead again.
2. The Amended Complaint fails to allege how any access could have occurred. The CFAA is an access violation. “The CFAA expressly prohibits improper ‘access’ of
computer information. It does not prohibit misuse or misappropriation.” United States v. Nosal, 676 F.3d 854, 863 (9th Cir. 2012). “[T]he word ‘access,’ in this context, is an active verb: it means ‘to gain access to,’ or ‘to exercise the freedom or ability to make use of something.’” Role Models Am., Inc. v. Jones, 305 F. Supp.2d 564, 567 (D. Md. 2004) (citation omitted). The receipt of information that has come from a computer is not an access of that computer and not prohibited by the CFAA. Id. at 566-67. Because the CFAA governs activity that involves accessing or damaging computers, the access to and use of the computer is integral to the CFAA and not merely incidental. Dresser-Rand Co. v. Jones, 2013 WL 3810859, at *4 (E.D. Penn. July 23, 2013). "Whatever happens to the data subsequent to being taken from the computer subsequently is not encompassed in the purview of the CFAA." Id. The most important allegation for a CFAA violation is the access of a computer. See id. This allegation must be sufficiently developed by alleging facts suggestive of the proscribed conduct. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *6.
a) Speculative, naked assertions of access do not survive a motion to dismiss.
Plaintiff’s allegations of access “are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’
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that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss,” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp. 2d at 526, as discussed previously in this brief and as demonstrated by the comparison of the allegations found insufficient in JBCHoldings and Smith to those in the Amended Complaint. See discussion supra Section IV.A.2.
b) The Amended Complaint does not allege a specific computer/account that was accessed.
Plaintiff’s CFAA claim alleges Defendant wrongfully accessed two things: “email account” and “bank accounts.”7 Plaintiff does not allege which particular email or bank account Defendant allegedly accessed, which is essential in determining whether they are “protected computers.” Fontana v. Corry, 2011 WL 4473285, at *6 (W.D. Pa. Aug. 30, 2011) report and recommendation adopted, 2011 WL 4461313 (W.D. Pa. Sept. 26, 2011) (citation omitted).
Plaintiff and Defendant were previously married. Am. Compl. ¶¶ 8-11. Given that the lawsuit between them is essentially a family law dispute, it is important to determine whether these accounts existed during their marriage, which may have given Defendant a right to access such accounts (even if the parties did not recognize such right existed). If Defendant had a prior right to access these accounts, Defendant would continue to have a right to access these accounts under the “narrow view” which has generally been adopted by the courts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. See Dresser-Rand Co., 2013 WL 3810859, at *5. Under the narrow view, someone who previously had access to a computer is authorized to continue accessing that computer regardless of his or her intent to misuse information and any subsequent agreements that regulate the use of information. See id. (citations omitted). Accordingly, to determine
7 In the Preliminary Statement and Factual Allegations of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff alleges Defendant stole a hard drive and hacked into a telephone. See Am. Compl. ¶¶ 1-38. The allegations regarding these devices are not included in the CFAA claim in the Amended Complaint, see Am. Compl. ¶¶ 44-51; the telephone is mentioned only once in paragraph 52, in what appears to be legacy language from the Complaint, see Compl. ¶ 48.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 23 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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whether an access to a computer "exceeds authorized access" or is "without authorization", it is imperative to know the identity of the specific computer allegedly accessed, when it occurred, and how it occurred to determine what rights (if any) the person had to access the computer in general. The Complaint does not identify any specific computer associated with the alleged access of e-mail or online banking accounts.
The Amended Complaint only makes a conclusory allegation of accessing an “email account” and “bank account” or “online bank account” without any further information, most of which is made on information and belief, which is of no value for this motion to dismiss. See discussion, supra, Section I.D.2. It is impossible to know whether those accounts of the information therefrom was stored or backed up locally on a computer Defendant was authorized to access. For example, had Defendant previously had the right to access the accounts or had the information from the email or bank accounts been backed up and stored on his own computer, there would be no violation under any theory of the CFAA.
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Pennsylvania recognizes the tort invasion of privacy for publicity given to private life as set forth in the RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D. See Boring v. Google Inc., 362 Fed. Appx. 273, 280 (3d Cir. 2010) (citations omitted). The § 652D Publicity Given to Private Life jurisprudence has developed over decades. One of its essential requirements is that the matter published must be true—and the plaintiff must allege that it is true in the complaint. “[T]o state a claim for public disclosure of private facts because an essential element of that tort is that the facts at issue be true.” Leidholdt v. L.F.P. Inc, 860 F.2d 890, 895 (9th Cir. 1988) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D); Culver by Culver v. Port Allegany Reporter Argus, 409 Pa. Super. 401, 404, 598 A.2d 54, 56 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991). Plaintiff, however, alleges the
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“book contained defamatory and untrue information about Kate Gosselin, along with information that painted Kate in a false and negative light.” Am. Compl. ¶ 36. Plaintiff affirmatively disproves her claim.
E. The Complaint Fails To Adequately Plead Several Requirements Of The Civil Conspiracy Claim (Count VI) and Concerted Tortious Action Claim (Count VII).
Under Pennsylvania law, civil conspiracy and concerted tortious activity are participatory claims. Unless there is a finding that the underlying tort has occurred, there can be no claim for civil conspiracy, Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013), or concerted tortious action, State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. Ficchi, 2011 WL 2313203, at *13 (E.D. Pa. June 13, 2011). As discussed previously, the Complaint does not adequately plead an independent wrong or tort that will support a claim for conspiracy or concerted tortious action. Counts VI and VII should be dismissed.
Under Pennsylvania law, an essential element of a conspiracy claim is the proof of malice which “[r]equires that the sole purpose of the conspiracy was to injure the plaintiff and that this intent to injure be without justification.” Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013). This element is conclusively negated where the Amended Complaint shows another purpose for the alleged activities. Id. The Amended Complaint affirmatively alleges that Defendant Robert Hoffman is a reporter, Am. Compl. ¶ 26, that the information allegedly giving rise to these claims was published in several publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 29, that Hoffman and Gosselin were paid for this information by various publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 38, the information was used by Defendant Hoffman to publish and promote the sales of a book, id., and finally and most importantly, alleges that the Defendants did these things “for the purpose of profiting from the book and the tabloid publications,” id. Plaintiff’s own pleading affirmatively disproves her conspiracy claim.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 25 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS
Document 11-1
Filed 10/22/13 Page 26 of 26
Dated: October 22, 2013
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220 Plano, Texas 75024

d. 469.635.1335
f. 972.767.3181
e. stuma@brittontuma.com

Richard L. Orwig (Associate Counsel) Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609

p. 610.898.9880
f. 610.898.1323
e. rlorwig@orwiglaw.com

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
page26image6952
The undersigned hereby certifies that a true and correct copy of the foregoing document has been served via personal hand delivery upon all counsel of record in the above-styled civil action on October 22, 2013, at the Court’s Status Conference.
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma Shawn E. Tuma
page26image10120
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
PAGE 26 


Robert's motion:

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 1 of 2
                  UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN :
: CIVIL ACTION

v. : :
page1image3080
JONATHAN GOSSELIN,
: No. 13-4989
: ROBERT HOFFMAN, : : and JOHN AND JANE DOES 1-20 : :
        ROBERT HOFFMAN’S MOTION TO DISMISS THE COMPLAINT
          Defendant Robert Hoffman moves to dismiss the
complaint for all the reasons contained in defendant Jonathan
Gosselin’s motion to dismiss the complaint.  Mr. Hoffman joins
in Mr. Gosselin’s motion, which is fully applicable to Mr.
Hoffman.
page1image8072 page1image8232
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ James P. Golden______________
James P. Golden
I.D. Nos. 32169
HAMBURG & GOLDEN, P.C.
1601 Market Street, Suite 3310
Philadelphia, PA  19103-1443
(215) 255-8590
goldenjp@hamburg-golden.com
page1image10936
Dated:  October 23, 2013

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 2 of 2
                     CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
          I, James P. Golden, certify that the foregoing
motion/joinder has been filed electronically and is now
available for viewing and downloading from the Court’s
Electronic Case Filing System and that the motion/joinder has
been served on October 23, 2013, by email and regular mail.
               A. Jordan Rushie, Esquire
               Mulvihill & Rushie LLC
               The Fishtown Lawyer
               2424 E. York Street, Suite 316
               Philadelphia, PA 19125
               Jordan@FishtownLaw.com
               Marc J. Randazza, Esquire
               Randazza Legal Group
               3625 S. Town Center Drive
               Las Vegas, NV  89135
               mjr@randazza.com
               Attorneys for Plaintiff
               Kate Gosselin
               Shawn E. Tuma, Esquire
               BrittonTuma
               7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220
               Plano, Texas 75024
               stuma@brittontuma.com
               Richard L. Orwig, Esquire
               Orwig Law Offices
               2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
               West Lawn, PA 19609
               rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
               Attorneys for defendant
               Jonathan K. Gosselin
page2image10608
/s/ James P. Golden
JAMES P. GOLDEN
page2image11560
Dated:  October 23, 2013

1201 sediments (sic) from readers:

«Oldest   ‹Older   401 – 600 of 1201   Newer›   Newest»
localyocul said...

Do they think because this is a second motion that the first one was denied? DUH. It is a response to the amended complaint. OMG they need to shear the wool from their eyes.

Winsomeone said...

So, if Jon and Robert win, or the case is dismissed, then what? They still have their lawyers to pay, Kate is allowed to spew her lies on any national media she wants to, and she can sue again whenever she feels like it..if the case is just dismissed? If these things are so, what exactly will Jon and Robert win, if they win? I guess Robert will be able to publish his book again, but what will Jon gain?

Sheri said...

Thank you to all who offered suggestions for my "me-kend" (Love it!)

I've never had that much alone time and I don't doubt that I'll be missing my family before very long. I will definitely be referring to many of your suggestions to keep me busy.

Thanks. :D

Layla said...

RealZiggyFlo ‏@RealZiggyFlo 2h
@CandyDishes Example #1: Kate wasn't required to be at the hearing & wasn't there. Hearing was for lawyers only.
**********
Perhaps TFW should have been there, so she could show her zoning attorney how to find the courthouse.

Insert Creative Username Here said...

Localyoxil said... 196
Well Radar has FINALLY reported on Jon's filing

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/10/kate-gosselin-jon-wiretapping-lawsuit-court-documents-case-dismissed/
-----------------------
Wow, just wow. I didn't think they were capable of saying anything remotely in Jon's favor.

TFW can't even say it's "lies all lies" because it's not about her, and all they did was quote Tuma's MTD.

Suzee said...

I'm shocked this morning, but pleasantly so; the RadarOnline article about Jon's MTD was pretty accurate and reported on the motion without being slanted, like they so frequently are.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/10/kate-gosselin-jon-wiretapping-lawsuit-court-documents-case-dismissed/

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/10/kate-gosselin-jon-wiretapping-lawsuit-court-documents-case-dismissed/

FYI said...

localyocul said... 1

Do they think because this is a second motion that the first one was denied? DUH. It is a response to the amended complaint. OMG they need to shear the wool from their eyes.
-----------------------

That is exactly what they think One of BV's minions is feeding that to them and of course, they believe him rather than actually think for themselves.

Anonymous said...

can someone please tell me how to view all of the tweets to Kate if I don't have twitter. Thanks so much.

localyocul said...

Not only did the first MTD not get denied, it resulted in TFW's attorney filing an amended complaint with half of the allegations removed.

Suzee said...

can someone please tell me how to view all of the tweets to Kate if I don't have twitter.

https://twitter.com/search?q=kateplusmy8&src=typd&f=realtime

Once on the page, be sure that you select 'ALL' in blue at the top, just under where it says 'results for kateplusmy8'

localyocul said...

Kate is a twit said... 7
localyocul said... 1

Do they think because this is a second motion that the first one was denied? DUH. It is a response to the amended complaint. OMG they need to shear the wool from their eyes.
-----------------------

That is exactly what they think One of BV's minions is feeding that to them and of course, they believe him rather than actually think for themselves

(((((
.
Good grief. Thanks, I worked 13 hours yesterday and am just catching up

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

localyocul said... 200
I was reading somewhere else and the fans seem to think Tuma's motion to dismiss was denied.
______________

Yep, I saw the tweets yesterday I was asking about the first Motion being "denied" because that didn't make any sense to me. Not being an attorney I think I'd use the word "replaced."

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


Yep, I saw the tweets yesterday I was asking about the first Motion being "denied" because that didn't make any sense to me. Not being an attorney I think I'd use the word "replaced."


&&&

Dismissed or withdrawn is the right word, with the new motion received and filed. Denied implies denied on the merits. They are squabbling over something completely normal when the moving party amends their complaint. Of course portions of your first motion to dismiss no longer is operative since it's talking about a complaint that doesn't exist anymore. Common sense.

Insert Creative Username Here said...

Winsomeone said... 2
So, if Jon and Robert win, or the case is dismissed, then what? They still have their lawyers to pay, Kate is allowed to spew her lies on any national media she wants to, and she can sue again whenever she feels like it..if the case is just dismissed? If these things are so, what exactly will Jon and Robert win, if they win? I guess Robert will be able to publish his book again, but what will Jon gain?
-----------------------
There is no outcome that will prevent TFW from spouting lies. It's in her nature. It's what she does.

However, having TFW's lawsuit dismissed is a big embarrassment to her. It basically proves that she either didn't present her side well enough or she didn't have a case to begin with. She'd have that much harder time spouting to the media that Jon is a bad bad man. I think dismissing a case for a narcissist is probably the worst outcomes that can come to them.

Winning this lawsuit doesn't do anything for Jon except get TFW off his back for a little while. It also prevents him from owing TFW millions of dollars. It might make him feel good for a millisecond, that at least someone is on his side and that someone sees through TFW. I'm guessing to someone who has had to suffer through being married to a NPD wife, having an objective entity agree that she's the crazy one will be a boost.

From what Admin says though, it might not be possible to dismiss the case with prejudice...meaning she can submit another lawsuit. I believe she would submit another one if she can get someone to do it. The only justice that can come from this is to somehow have the case go away in such a manner that prevents TFW from dragging it out until she wins by default.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

They do not get that it's not the fact that he filed (Admin said at the top of this very post that it is standard), but the QUALITY of the motion that is impressive.

&&&

Exactly. I expected a motion to dismiss from any half baked attorney. I did not expect one to be this thorough, dismantling each and every one of Kate's arguments piece by piece with logic, reason, statute and case law. He is not a Harvard or Yale grad. He went to a small fourth tier Christian school. But he has a passion for this area of law and read and studied and perfected his craft so that he's the best in the business. He is a Godsend. The answer to many hopes and prayers that someone, someday could put a stop to this woman's destruction of her children and family and anyone who dares cross her.

Someone said it best the other day. Kate's lawyers may be very good at what they do. But a good lawyer specializes and it was a grave mistake not to hire a computer fraud expert like Shawn. You may be able to get anyone off for murder, but it doesn't mean you have any business writing a brief about hacking.

Again, where have they addressed the actual MERITS of what Shawn is saying instead of all these little red herrings?

Jane said...

I'm quite sure there's at least one attorney, retired, I believe, in the sheeple pen. You'd think she and any other attorneys would set the sheep straight about the mtd. They're going to look even more foolish, if that's possible. Perhaps they're only playing attorneys on the Internet :)

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


From what Admin says though, it might not be possible to dismiss the case with prejudice...meaning she can submit another lawsuit. I believe she would submit another one if she can get someone to do it. The only justice that can come from this is to somehow have the case go away in such a manner that prevents TFW from dragging it out until she wins by default.


&&&


This is why I see value in making her see this case all the way through to the bitter end, the time, money, stress and embarrassment and all. It's become clear to me that Kate is going to continue this contentious divorce to the end of time if no one stops her. Turning the other cheek works for most normal people. Most normal people would tire and give up and move on. It has not worked for Jon on Kate. She has not stopped. If anything she is worse. He has to try something else now. That something else is to completely dismantle her latest attempt to disrupt his life and further alienate his children from him. That something is to try to shut her down once and for all where even if she ever did want to sue again, no one would dare take the case.

Speaking of how kids turn out, I read that two of Betty Broderick's children wanted her released from prison when she came up for parol and the other two did not. It's just proof that kids can come out all different ways when they have dysfunctional parents. Some grow up and support them, some turn against them.

Off topic question. Has anyone bought new car tires online and will the mechanic put those on for you or will they make you order through them? I can shave off 25 bucks a tire from my mechanic's price just by ordering online!

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Wow, that Radar article WAS quite good FOR ONCE.

Of course they are four weeks too late reporting that Jon filed a motion to dismiss. If I recall correctly they completely ignored his first motion to dismiss and even Kate's amendments. So great timely reporting THERE. But, since they've finally caught up with what is going on, it's nice to see their rendition of the facts are fair and accurate. I couldn't find a single thing that was incorrect in there.

As for the comments, every single one....every single one.....says that she is the crazy ex wife going after Jon who is just minding his own business.

This lawsuit backfired on her BIG TIME. She officially pegged herself as the crazy ex and the public sees it. What a massive, massive mistake. She had the public right where she wanted them in the old days! Jon was the deadbeat dad, she was the poor struggling single mom. There was no reason that perception should have changed except that she and she alone decided to take advantage of it and now how the tables have turned on HER.

Every single time when something major gets screwed up, it's always because Kate herself messed it up. I've been saying for years the only person who can bring Kate down is Kate. That has proven to be true.

Sarah said...

Lalalalala said... 197
Yes, Kate. Please go ahead with this lawsuit
******************************
Oh yes, please Kate. I insist.

kids first said...

What producer will now want this "File a Lawsuit No Matter What" nutcase? She truely has sealed her own fate.

FYI said...

Of course they are four weeks too late reporting that Jon filed a motion to dismiss. If I recall correctly they completely ignored his first motion to dismiss and even Kate's amendments
===========

ROL actually did do a story on the first motion to dismiss. They titled it "Jon Gosselin Plays Dirty! Ex-Reality Star Drags Children Into Multi-Million Dollar Lawsuit With Ex-Wife". That article was written by Alexis Tereszcuk (Amber Goodhand on twitter) who seems to have replaced David Perel in writing the stories that are negative to Jon and Robert.

The new article today was written by ROL staff with no byline. Seems like those articles are more fair in their reporting, than the ones by Alexis or David.

This is the article that Alexis wrote regarding the first MTD. Totally biased against Jon because he mentioned the kids in his MTD.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/09/kate-gosselin-jon-lawsuit-drags-children-plays-dirty-motion-dismiss-court-documents/

Layla said...

This lawsuit is just like the cookbook--a failure that was easy to predict long before it happened. With the book, TFW couldn't get a reputable publisher (Zondervan, who publisher "her" first 3 books, didn't want it) to take it on, so she had to take what she could get. With the lawsuit, it looks like she shopped it around until she could find a lawyer--any lawyer--to take it. Laverne and Shirley, who reperesented her for years, wouldn't go near it. So, she had to go with the only two lawyers who would take it--Razzmattazz and some zoning lawyer who can't even figure out which courthouse to go to. And Razzy is staying as far away from this as he can get.
The book was a proven failure long before it came on the market. The pre-sales were dismal. And the lawsuit is the same--she had to take half of her claims off the table before anyone ever stepped foot in a courthouse. But, of course, this is TFW. She just had to go through with the cookbook, and it turned out to be a huge embarrassment for her. She has publicly branded herself as a failure once again. The lawsuit is destined to fail, too, and it has the potential to become an even bigger humiliation. But she won't back off. She is destroying herself, one project after another, and she just can't stop herself from doing it. She and her sheep think it shows determination. It looks more like she's self-destructive. She's wasting time, money, and energy that she can't replace. If (when) she loses this case, she will appeal and appeal and appeal until she loses everything or until someone forces her to stop.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Kate is a twit oh I do remember that now. I guess I blocked it out since it was so ridiculous.

I guess it's playing "dirty" to provide an accurate rendition of the facts, even if one teeny tiny portion of those facts includes that your children informed you of something. But it's not playing dirty to mention how you are a single mom of eight kids over and over to garner sympathy. Got it.

Local, Kate did a blog post not too long after she filed the lawsuit in response to all the "WTF" backlash and questions about HOW this related to BULLYING-- saying that it DID relate to bullying in a convoluted away, and that she saw no reason to back down now. Of course she sees no reason to back down. Does she EVER see a reason to actually stop her rampages?

Insert Creative Username Here said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 17
This is why I see value in making her see this case all the way through to the bitter end, the time, money, stress and embarrassment and all. It's become clear to me that Kate is going to continue this contentious divorce to the end of time if no one stops her.
------------------------------
That's what I don't like, though. I can see this case not going her way, then she appeals. And appeals. And keeps appealing. At what point is cost prohibitive to just let her win, versus spend time, money and energy fighting her?

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

She and her sheep think it shows determination. It looks more like she's self-destructive.


&&&

I could not agree more. I just could not agree more.

I have noticed over the years a really fundamental difference in values, and I'm not sure we can ever find common ground when what people like Kate value is so vastly different than what other people value.

Here's the thing. Kate and her crowd value so very, very highly winning, points, getting to the bottom of things, aggressively pursuing those who wrong you and making sure you GET them for every last cent. Every tat must be answered with a tit. There is no getting away with anything or letting it go. They call this perseverance and determination and never giving up. They think she is "strong."

The problem is, it doesn't mater how right you are--other people have realized that the payoff for this kind of behavior is often not very good. Often "getting" someone, no matter how they wronged you, doesn't feel as good as you think it will, and you are out time, money and stress. She has worked herself into an obsession with getting even, and I simply do not believe that is good for someone's mental health.

I see value in moving on from things. In accepting how your life turned out, forgiving and moving forward trying to work with that person who is not going away. I do not think "quitting" is always something to avoid or be ashamed of. Rather, I think a wise man knows when to quit. Unless and until Kate starts to see the value in this, or unless and until she is firmly shut down by attorneys and the court of law, I can't see her ever stopping this delusional and destructive rampage. It's destructive to Jon and the kids but quite frankly it's as you said Layla equally destructive to herself. She looks road weary. This kind of behavior wears a body down.

Sarah said...

Jane, there is one woman who claims to be a retired attorney, and maybe she is I'm not calling her a liar, but I've seen some outlandish things she's written that no lawyer would write. It would take me a while to find, but she doesn't seem to even have the basics down regarding libel vs slander and civil vs criminal. You'd be surprised.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


That's what I don't like, though. I can see this case not going her way, then she appeals. And appeals. And keeps appealing. At what point is cost prohibitive to just let her win, versus spend time, money and energy fighting her?


&&&

Well, you can't just keep appealing. Usually there is only one appeal, other than the Supreme court. Once that process is over with you're done. And I think it's pretty obvious Tuma is taking this pro bono and willing to see this to the end, so Jon won't be out too much money. The good thing is Tuma doesn't even seem to need much time or energy from Jon. He seems to have a very good handle on what is going on here all on his own and what's more seems to be enjoying himself. This is the best thing that could have happened to Jon, a lawyer who understands the situation taking the lead and finally taking some of the heat and pressure off Jon. Tuma has the reins here. I think they've stepped too far in it now, they've got to see this to the end now unless Kate backs off first. I just don't think it's a good option anymore to stop fighting her. It will only empower her.

Wondering this too said...

Re Improbable Dreams said... 198
Admin (or anyone who's seen the court documents):

Was Robert's latest MTD filed by Martin Garbus? I ask because I'm wondering if he's still being represented by the same attorney(ies).

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


What producer will now want this "File a Lawsuit No Matter What" nutcase? She truely has sealed her own fate.

&&&

Well this is where she doesn't THINK. Few people are willing to work with someone who has a reputation for suing. There is an attorney I know who routinely sues Los Angeles on behalf of his clients and whenever he comes around people treat him with kid gloves. They are petrified of this guy lest they be next. Now in our case most people don't have a choice to work with him but given the choice people would run not walk the other way. No one wants to be around someone who is hot to sue. She is so dumb.

Same with MEN. Why in the world would anyone date her knowing what could happen should things ever not work out?

Sarah said...

I'm waiting for the Kate vs Bullyville smack down. It's coming; I can feel it.

Insert Creative Username Here said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 26
Well, you can't just keep appealing. Usually there is only one appeal, other than the Supreme court. Once that process is over with you're done.
------------------------
I didn't know that. I thought you could keep appealing if you had different grounds for the appeal (shows what I know). So maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing for it to actually go to trial, and go through discovery. Is it too much to hope that a Paula Deen thing happens here?

But it looks like from the MTD, the case will be dismissed, unless TFW submits a new claim for invasion of privacy and admits that everything Robert is true...and that might be just as good.

If your case is dismissed, how many times can you re-submit the lawsuit for the same things?

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

If your case is dismissed, how many times can you re-submit the lawsuit for the same things?

&&&

Depends. First cases are rarely dismissed following a motion to dismiss unless they are very defective, so don't count on that. Although that would be a huge victory if it happens it's not likely. The rare motions to dismiss I've seen granted they ALWAYS give the other party leave to amend. Which means if they clean up their suit they are welcome to refile. The courts treat lawsuits very liberally, if you have even a tiny basis for a claim they will let you go forward and you're given lots of chances to clean things up. What I expect to happen is the judge will dismiss some of the lawsuit, but probably not all of it. He will narrow the issues to a few claims.

As far as refiling it depends on whether it was with or without prejudice. There's discussion of the difference above.

The answer is IT DEPENDS! :) That said I cannot imagine after this anyone would be willing to take on Kate's cause. I think once this is over with she's going to be up a creek on these claims.

Jumping In said...

Layla 22....You have summed up Kate's mindset of destruction with complete accuracy and insight. I just re-watched the Extra interview she did on her bogus cookbook tour. She was asked how this lawsuit was for the "safety" of her children. He gave her a wide opening by trying to connect Jon's gun incident and her use of the word ”safety" as another reason for suing him. She suggested, as only TFW can, that it has to be done for the future and "safety" of her children, (as if only the money from television will keep them safe.)

There are millions of families doing everyday jobs, living ordinary lives while raising their children doing whatever it takes. Do they say they do their jobs for the "safety" of their children? Such an odd word to tie to employment. People work to live and provide security for their children.
Does she really feel she they will be unsafe without the big bucks from another television show? This woman is delusional beyond words.

And, I agree, she will not back down, it is just not in her DNA to be back down. This lawsuit will ruin her and the irony of course, is that she orchestrated her own demise.

Jane said...

Sarah said... 26
Jane, there is one woman who claims to be a retired attorney, and maybe she is I'm not calling her a liar, but I've seen some outlandish things she's written that no lawyer would write. It would take me a while to find, but she doesn't seem to even have the basics down regarding libel vs slander and civil vs criminal. You'd be surprised.
---------

Looks like we're thinking of the same person. And I agree, some of her statements in the past have made me wonder. You'd think there'd be some intelligent life in sheeple land, someone who can enlighten at least a few in the flock.

I haven't been following the sheep much these days - have there been signs that a few may have seen the light?

Tucker's Mom said...

I see value in moving on from things. In accepting how your life turned out, forgiving and moving forward trying to work with that person who is not going away. I do not think "quitting" is always something to avoid or be ashamed of.
******
Seriously, one of the best posts EVER. I think it may be why we gather here-- we share common values and outlooks on life.
I also see value in feeling REGRET. Kate acts as though it's a 4-letter word. It's not. It's also not weakness, which I am convinced Kate feels it is.
Regret is healthy. It's how we learn and reshape our thinking and our behavior. It's not shameful to admit you did something wrong, simply because you're where you are today. There are many paths that lead to the same place. You could be where you are today WITHOUT having done thing EXACTLY as you did them.
This is just a sick way of thinking.
I have regrets and am sure that I will continue to have regrets in the future. To err is to be human.
Kate would rather be right than happy, and rather win than be successful.

Dmasy said...

We probably all know someone who is stubborn beyond common sense. I do.

After awhile, you give up trying reason or logic. Once I pointed out that to continue their behavior would lead to termination. I asked them how big of price they wanted to pay for revenge.

I cared/care about this person, but there is no way to drag them from a path of destruction.

Lost career, destroyed marriage, alienated children, angry neighbors -- nothing has made a dent in their determination.

I perceive Kate to have the same destructive single mindedness.

It is very sad to watch.

CarolJB said...

I have seen Kate's situation numerous times. Clients want to sue even though their cases are very weak. I know plenty of lawyers whom would take the case on an hourly basis even though they have a slim chance of winning the case. As long as they get paid they don't care about the outcome. They also don't care if they have the expertise as long as they are getting their hourly wages.

I once asked an attorney whom practiced law in 10 different areas of law how he managed to keep up with 10 areas of law. His response was that he never said he did well in all 10 areas of the law.

Tucker's Mom said...

No one wants to be around someone who is hot to sue. She is so dumb.
******
I treated a patient once, a lawyer, and I swear this is true-- he sat there upon his initial evaluation and told me that he'd sue me if he wasn't happy with his treatment, or if I didn't "fix" him, or whatever.
Needless to say, I documented the ever-living crap out of this phallicly-challenged asshole's course of treatment.

Tucker's Mom said...

There are millions of families doing everyday jobs, living ordinary lives while raising their children doing whatever it takes. Do they say they do their jobs for the "safety" of their children? Such an odd word to tie to employment
****
This is the same woman who spews forth that she keeps her kids safe by having a bodyguard WITH HER, not with them, but WITH HER.
Let me tell you something-- I've spend some time re-reading Robert's book this past week and her house was a revolving door of nannies during the time, I think 2 years or so, that Robert was observing and reporting on the Gosselins.
Other than a gate and a fence that anyone could hippity hop over, there was just one or two women with the kids, all alone, all the time that Kate was frolicking hither, tither and yon with Steve.

Tucker's Mom said...

Same with MEN. Why in the world would anyone date her knowing what could happen should things ever not work out?
******
I cracked up at that radio interview Kate did. The main DJ was blatherint on and on and on about how "hawt" she is and the 2 guys in the control room were like "Dude!! Did you even WATCH the show?".
No amount of tanning, boob inflation and peroxide could convince those 2 to touch Kate with a ten-foot pole!
The main DJ would certainly bang her, but that's about all any guy would do.
What man in his right mind would get near her incendiary vortex?

Kylie said...

Tucker's Mom that was very well put. And that is what is totally missing in Kate, her ability to have normal, human reactions. Regrets are not weakness, it just means we realize we did something wrong, we learned from it and hope to never do that again. We move on. Can you even imagine living inside her brain?

Hoosier Girl said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 17

Off topic question. Has anyone bought new car tires online and will the mechanic put those on for you or will they make you order through them? I can shave off 25 bucks a tire from my mechanic's price just by ordering online!
_________
I have family in the wholesale tire business. Here's the trick to that.

Garages will pad their hourly rate if you bring in your own tires - shysters!

What works is, go in and get an estimate and make sure it's broken into tire cost and labor. Remember to take that estimate with you when you roll your tires in :-) ... and believe it or not, I've still had garages argue with me as I'm standing there with their estimate in my hand.

chefsummer #Leh said...

Tucker's Mom said... 40
Same with MEN. Why in the world would anyone date her knowing what could happen should things ever not work out?
******
I cracked up at that radio interview Kate did. The main DJ was blatherint on and on and on about how "hawt" she is and the 2 guys in the control room were like "Dude!! Did you even WATCH the show?"
____

Right they all said that she would only be a one night stand.

chefsummer #Leh said...

Tucker's Mom said... 40
.
No amount of tanning, boob inflation and peroxide could convince those 2 to touch Kate with a ten-foot pole!
______

KK has her own pole according to Jon I wonder if it's still up there,

Ex Nurse said...

Admin said...
Now from what I'm hearing both from Kate's own words and others around her, she has no intentions of dropping it. So good, she should see it through and see what a REAL lawsuit really is.
_______
From a mental health perspective, there are several outcomes that can result if this lawsuit gets to a courtroom.  A full trial may offer the best chance for her to break through her own denial. In a trial, her inner reality will be disproved and broken down  slowly,  in a systematic and logical way. If she has supportive people who are honest with her, the trial can offer a way to integrate reality in manageable doses.

 Another outcome is that the trauma of being forced to see the discord in her internal reality and actual reality may force her into a shattered, or schizoid state, in which there is a complete break from reality.  

Anyway, all conjecture on my part. TFW is so well-defended in her reality, probably nothing will ever change that. She has turned her 8 children into an adoring fan club, put on earth to reflect her glory.  The more likely scenario is that she will never readjust her view of herself, and will live out her life as a vengeful, and bitter woman, that used to be famous. 

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 29

There is an attorney I know who routinely sues Los Angeles on behalf of his clients and whenever he comes around people treat him with kid gloves. They are petrified of this guy lest they be next.
____________

Oh my gosh! I recently read a book about an attorney just like that. The story took place in L.A. in the Bunker Hill area. He'd take cases against the city, and even if he lost, the city had to pay his fees. He was stabbed to death at Angels Flight. LOL

Flo said...

Leann Rimes, who is like Kate in every way save for her talent, filed a lawsuit against a former fan who tape recorded Leann's childish phone rant to her. The case was dismissed so Leann re-filed it. You have never seen hate for a celebrity until you read up on Leann Rimes. It makes the snark directed at KK look like a summer picnic in the park. It's so stupid and so blind and so 'bite off your nose to spite your face' kate it's astounding.

Anonymous said...

If your case is dismissed, how many times can you re-submit the lawsuit for the same things?

I want to qualify my answer by saying I am not an attorney, but earlier the question was asked about with or without prejudice. That question and the one above are one in the same. If Mr. Tuma gets the case dismissed with prejudice that means that Kate (plaintiff) cannot bring another suit again against Jon and Robert (defendant) for the same claims. see below

Dismissal

A civil matter which is "dismissed with prejudice" is over forever. This is a final judgement, not subject to further action, which bars the plaintiff from bringing any other lawsuit based on the claim. The dismissal itself may be appealed. It is done when the judge determines that the plaintiff has brought the case in bad faith, has failed to bring the case in a reasonable time, has failed to comply with court procedures, or on the merits after hearing the arguments in court.

Insert Creative Username Here said...

Flo said... 47
Leann Rimes, who is like Kate in every way save for her talent, filed a lawsuit against a former fan who tape recorded Leann's childish phone rant to her. The case was dismissed so Leann re-filed it. You have never seen hate for a celebrity until you read up on Leann Rimes. It makes the snark directed at KK look like a summer picnic in the park. It's so stupid and so blind and so 'bite off your nose to spite your face' kate it's astounding.
--------------------
Good reference point! I think Leeann always lacked self esteem, and when the thing with Eddie happened she had to justify her own behavior to live with herself. Now she's a truck full of crazy. She needs to back that truck up to a psychiatrists office for daily meetings. She's one I WOULD worry about committing suicide at some point. She's very unhappy with herself and her current lot in life.

Insert Creative Username Here said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 17

Off topic question. Has anyone bought new car tires online and will the mechanic put those on for you or will they make you order through them? I can shave off 25 bucks a tire from my mechanic's price just by ordering online!


Hoosier Girl said... 42
I have family in the wholesale tire business. Here's the trick to that.

Garages will pad their hourly rate if you bring in your own tires - shysters!

What works is, go in and get an estimate and make sure it's broken into tire cost and labor. Remember to take that estimate with you when you roll your tires in :-) ... and believe it or not, I've still had garages argue with me as I'm standing there with their estimate in my hand.

----------------------

Hoosier Girl that's BRILLIANT!

Zoe said...

OT re buying tires online: I've done this twice so far using tirerack.com. Their website included a search for local shops that would install them, instructions on contacting those shops, and you could even have the tires delivered there. I chose delivery to my home in order to have more control on knowing when they arrived, did I get exactly what I ordered, etc. Even with the price the shop charged, I saved money.

Another big benefit for me was that I knew for sure the tires were "fresh". Tires can age just sitting in a storeroom, and they all have a code on them that allows you to know the mfr date. The ones delivered to my home were definitely new. Some years ago there was a report about the age of tires being sold as new (maybe from Consumer Reports?) and they found tires from 6-12 years old being sold as new.

Yes, you could also ask to look at the mfr date at the place that is selling you tires, but I'm sold on the online purchase process.

Millicent said...

Anyway, all conjecture on my part. TFW is so well-defended in her reality, probably nothing will ever change that. She has turned her 8 children into an adoring fan club, put on earth to reflect her glory. The more likely scenario is that she will never readjust her view of herself, and will live out her life as a vengeful, and bitter woman, that used to be famous.
*******
Based on the real life stories shared here by posters who personally grew up with a narcisstic personality parent, I hold out less than 1% chance that TFW will ever see the world and herself any differently than she does today -- except that she will likely only get worse with time. I agree that with each new disappointment to her dream of being back on tv, she'll only get more bitter, more angry, and continue to blame anyone and everyone but herself for all her woes.

I just want all the children to be removed from that toxic environment.

Sadie said...

The funny thing about Kate's sheep is that quite a few of them who cry about Kate being attacked by the vile haters, turn around and spend their days mouthing off at other unpopular celebrities. One of them who first came onto the scene raging about kate's "haterz" can be found on Leann Rimes timeline on an hourly basis. They don't even realize what hypocrites they are. I find it all so fascinating.

Millicent said...

CarolJB said:
I once asked an attorney whom practiced law in 10 different areas of law how he managed to keep up with 10 areas of law. His response was that he never said he did well in all 10 areas of the law.
******
Many years ago, in simpler times, an attorney could practice in several areas of law, and be a "family" attorney. He could handle wills and probate, divorce, a little criminal law, civil cases, maybe even some real estate law. My first job when I moved out of the house, was for just such a small town attorney. (I'm not going to say how long ago that was!).

But times have changed, and most attorneys specialize in one or perhaps two areas of law. You are right when you say there are some attorneys who will take on a case, even knowing it has very little merit, as long as the client is willing to pay their hourly rate. Just like with Michael Jackson who was determined to keep having cosmetic procedures done - many plastic surgeons said they wouldn't do any more surgery on him, but he eventually found those that would take his money. Then he ended up with a nose that kept falling off. There is always someone out there that will accept your money if you insist upon giving it to them.

TFW is very foolish. She is eventually going to run through whatever money she has stashed aside, because her pride and ego will drive her to fools errands like this lawsuit.

reader said...

When I was involved in youth hockey years ago, high maintenance, loud mouth parents had as much affect on coaches decisions in accepting players as the talent of the players. "Mother Bear" is not always appreciated.
That being said, I can't recall any extremely talented kids with domineering parents.
Yes TFW's M.O. is out there. Her resume is played out for all to see in 5 or 6 seasons of dvds. Add to that poor book sales and litigation.
I don't think reality tv has helped anyone's image. Pockets, yes, but at what cost?
I pray for the end of reality tv. I think it is cheap and exploitative.

reader said...

Someone on CNN once talked about how reality shows don't change the behavior of the people who are filmed. But there is a certain type of personality who seeks out and agrees to be the subject of a reality show.
Filming magnifies traits already there.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Hoosier thank you thank you! I just scored a great deal and am saving about 70 bucks than my original quote by buying online and holding then to their labor quote.

URL said...

Whatever illness(es) TFW has she is determined to bring Jon and Robert down. TFW won't go back and drop her lawsuit because this isn't her nature and she isn't hardwired to do this. She will continue to pursue the lawsuit to the end because she is unable to stop it. Unfortunately, logic and any reasons to discontinue the lawsuits are not even in her realm of thinking. I doubt anyone who is close to her is discouraging her from proceeding with this lawsuit. That makes her feel she is justified to proceed and is possibly right, and that she may win this lawsuit. Unfortunately for her, these same people have their own agenda and will take her money and whatever publicity they receive from this case and will move on regardless of the outcome. I believe TFW's mental health problems will really take a hit after the children leave home, especially the six. They are and always have been her bread and butter. Once they are gone, she'll lose it completely.

willowmom said...

Way O.T. back to the cookbook....The radio station I listen to has a Facebook Question of the Day. Today's question was "If you wrote a cookbook, what would it be called?" - Some amusing answers, and in "Put Down This Cookbook & Make a Reservation"; "Foods That Will Get You Druck", and the one that should be a subtitle to TFW's cookbook..."Fiction in the Kitchen"

reader said...

We bought our tires through a local family owned shop with a great reputation. Because we purchased the tires there, every tire rotation is free.
Face to face experienced advice, they are not hard sell.
And I have the good feeling of helping a local business.
Just things to consider.

JR said...

Someone just put Kates "I Just Want You To Know" on Ebay. Bidding started at 2.88 and not one person bid on it. Can't even unload her junkie books for nothing.

Vanessa said...

Went and checked out the comments on the ROL article and there is only 1 sheeple. ONE!

Anonymous said...

I predict that when this suit is over, dismissed or tried, TFWwill accuse Tuma and the other lawyers of bullying her, blame Razzy for not helping her correctly, and demand a new judge because this one wasn't doing his job right and let everything get out of hand.

Turtle Logic

Millicent said...

reader said... 60

We bought our tires through a local family owned shop with a great reputation. Because we purchased the tires there, every tire rotation is free.
Face to face experienced advice, they are not hard sell.
And I have the good feeling of helping a local business.
Just things to consider.
*****
I have had the same mechanics for over 20 years. It's two guys who run a small shop. I just have them order my tires for me when I need new ones, because I trust them. But I also understand the desire to save money where possible.

I definitely prefer to support locally owned businesses when I can. So many are getting squeezed hard by on-line merchants like Amazon or big stores like Wal-Mart.

Millicent said...

Yay, it's Friday and the week-end is almost here. In my part of the world (northern CA), the temperatures are going to be mild this week-end (mid-70's), but cooling for next week. So I'm planning some comfort meals for the week-end, including a simple shepherd's pie. And pumpkin pie in preparation for the holidays - I've got to be sure my recipe is just right!

Anyone have some fun week-end plans?

Lalalalala said...

Anyone have some fun week-end plans?

********************

Going out to dinner tonight with my wonderful husband and friends to celebrate our 33rd wedding anniversary!

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

I was trying to put myself in Kate's shoes right now. I was thinking, if I had the potential to be a star and I had an ex who killed that dream (her belief about it anyway) would I feel the same way that she does? Her potential to stay on TV and be wealthy is never going to happen because of Jon. I think that is what drives her to try and destroy him, because he destroyed her dream of fame and wealth. But the fact of the matter is that Kate had 15 minutes and that it actually was never going to go beyond that 15 minutes anyway. It was just that and truly nothing more. She always said she believed God wanted her to be in this situation or he would not have put her in it. Hey maybe God only wanted her to be in it for 15 minutes. In other words my child, take the money and run. But Kate maybe blew it by sticking her self-will into the mix and now look what we've got. A much despised and seemingly selfish woman. True, Kate, it was a lot of money to say good bye to because of an ex. But remember God? Maybe you stopped listening to him a long time ago. JMO.

Katie cry-duh said...

Reader, I agree 100%. There are some things more important than money, good karma with the tire shop being one

Cthulhu the Cuddly said...

Kate Gosselin is my faithful minion, she will spread confusion and despair with her suit of the laws of your land! She has redeemed herself. Her book of cooking had no recipes To Serve Man!
Rod Serling was a very faithful minion.

kids first said...

This legal fiasco will be her legacy. Not the way you would want to be remembered.....suing the father of your eight children. This will be her last public display I believe. And this is how the public will remember her.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

The shop I went with actually is a local guy, not a chain, with great yelp reviews. A win win. I'm not sure a dealer would even accept outside tires.

Amy2 said...

Anyone have some fun week-end plans?
_____________________________________
Watching GameDay @ 9:00 on ESPN. Then watching college football. I love fall because that means its college football time.

AuntieAnn said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 27

And I think it's pretty obvious Tuma is taking this pro bono and willing to see this to the end, so Jon won't be out too much money.

====

Can you imagine how livid TFW is if he is doing this pro bono? It will make her dig her heels in further. How dare Jon score a lawyer of Tuma's caliber for almost nothing. That's supposed to be her specialty.

Pinch me. Some of this stuff is almost too good to be true.

chefsummer #Leh said...

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said... 67

LOL KK can blame Jon And the haters all she wants for her failed TV career and non existed now tv career.

But she has no talent she's boring and is predictable and this is why no one wants to see her on any media forum.

Over And Out said...

Rod Serling was a very faithful minion.

LOL!! Say what? To which I add:

You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination.

Over And Out said...

I would love to her um, um, answer to an interviewer's question..."You said you are piecing and patching, then how are you able to pay all of the attorney's fees you are incurring in your lawsuit against Jon?"

kids first said...

I remember the day when a Kate article on Radar would get hundreds of comments with the fans and haters about even in number. Now an article doesnt even break 100 comments with only ONE or TWO being fans!

Tucker's Mom said...

I think that is what drives her to try and destroy him, because he destroyed her dream of fame and wealth. But the fact of the matter is that Kate had 15 minutes and that it actually was never going to go beyond that 15 minutes anyway
******
The thing is, these reality tv "stars" try to extend their 15 minutes virtually all the time. But, there's a problem. Being a reality tv star takes no talent at all, and by and large, the cast of these shows are dumb f*c!s. Working in TV takes talent. Having a true career takes skill.

Layla said...

Over and Out (76)
I'd like someone to ask her how she justifies the money spent on the lawsuit when she says her priorities are the kids' college, their school, and their house. How many years of college tuition is she spending on this? She says they don't wear the top brands. Wouldn't her kids prefer to wear real Uggs instead of fake ones? They could have the real ones if she didn't spend the money suing their father.

Terri said...

For all that care, I just received a direct message from Mr. Tuma on my twitter. The other day Kate tweeted about not knowing where everyone was at and I tweeted back to her "You mean like your attorney" in reference to him going to the wrong courthouse. Well, Mr. Tuma follows me on twitter so he saw that on my timeline. He says he usually doesn't get into such stuff on twitter but when he saw that he couldn't stop laughing. Thought it was nice of him and also very professional of him to also send me that in a direct message so it was just for me to see.

JoyinVirginia said...

Weekend plans: as soon add I can pack a bag and food for the dogs, we are heading to the Outer Banks! Nags Head, here we come!

Lalalalala said...

kids first said... 77

I remember the day when a Kate article on Radar would get hundreds of comments with the fans and haters about even in number. Now an article doesnt even break 100 comments with only ONE or TWO being fans!

*************

Kate really should get a clue. She needs to realize that no one wants her...on TV or anywhere else.

Millicent said...

Lalalalala said... 66
Going out to dinner tonight with my wonderful husband and friends to celebrate our 33rd wedding anniversary.
*****
Happy Anniversary! Obviously you do not follow TFW's school of husband abuse and belittlement :)

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 71
The shop I went with actually is a local guy, not a chain, with great yelp reviews. A win win. I'm not sure a dealer would even accept outside tires.
******
Yep, I bet a dealer would say they couldn't accommodate that request. I like Yelp and definitely read their reviews whenever I'm considering using the services of a new business.


Amy2 said... 72
Watching GameDay @ 9:00 on ESPN. Then watching college football. I love fall because that means its college football time.
********
I find it oddly soothing to have a football game on tv - I usually end up taking a nice snooze on the couch. lol

Ex Nurse said...

Cthulhu the Cuddly said... 69
Kate Gosselin is my faithful minion, she will spread confusion and despair with her suit of the laws of your land! She has redeemed herself. Her book of cooking had no recipes To Serve Man!
Rod Serling was a very faithful minion.
-------
That episode made me literally pee in my pants--I was seven years old.

Ex Nurse said...

Millicent said...
But times have changed, and most attorneys specialize in one or perhaps two areas of law.

-----------
If the CFAA complaints are denied, leaving the defamation and profit claims, I wonder if Tuma will continue on as Jon's attorney.

localyocul said...

This just cracks me up. The sheep can't argue with what Tuma said so they just deflect. First it's, oh so what, everyone files a MTD (duh). The other thing they are saying is that Tuma is not a good lawyer because he "showed his hand" LOL. Telling the opponent piece by piece that they don't have a case and why is "showing your hand"? No, that's legal procedure haha

Fired Up 4 Kate ‏@MiloandJack 1h
@Kateplusmy8 Oh and #GoodLawyers R like skilled Poker Players...they don't reveal their hand 2soon! There's big fish out there 2b caught!
Expand

localyocul said...

I wonder what Milo means by "big fish"? I think she still thinks there are Doe conspirators to find with this lawsuit. So ridiculous.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

There is no claim for defamation and never was. Asserting it was defamatory and actually making a defamation claim is not the same thing. All that's left is computer fraud, conspiracy, private facts and a general tort claim that talks all about conspiracy again. Since it all stems from the alleged hacking Tuma is well qualified to tackle each one.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Lol. Good lawyers in films don't show their hands. Good lawyers in real life are required to show their hands at each and every stage of the case or risk running into waiver problems. Good try though sheep what else they got?

DanielleB said...

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment2/56915842-223/reality-parents-child-masterchef.html.csp

Sorry, don't know how to make this clickable. I saw this and thought of the discussion on the previous post. I like how the author references Jon & Kate Plus 8.

localyocul said...

Is Grabus still Hoffman's attorney?

handinhand said...

Can you imagine how livid TFW is if he is doing this pro bono? It will make her dig her heels in further. How dare Jon score a lawyer of Tuma's caliber for almost nothing. That's supposed to be her specialty.
---------------------------------------
Good point.
Especially painful if she's actually doling out for her frattorney, Randazzo.

Tucker's Mom said...

"Could there have been a sweeter show than "Jon & Kate Plus Eight" before it ran off the rails? Continuing to put those children on the air as their parents’ marriage collapsed was nothing short of child abuse.

If you put your child on reality TV, you are a bad parent. Period.

If you’re an adult, you can take the risk and decide to go on a reality show. Minors can’t make those decisions. And their parents/guardians shouldn’t put minors at risk."

Do give this a read. Thanks for the link!
I could not agree more.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment2/56915842-223/reality-parents-child-masterchef.html.csp

Hoosier Girl said...

Fired Up 4 Kate ‏@MiloandJack 1h
@Kateplusmy8 Oh and #GoodLawyers R like skilled Poker Players...they don't reveal their hand 2soon! There's big fish out there 2b caught!
Expand
______

That's it Milo ... keep egging her on! I, for one, would love to hear her have to admit that everything in Hoffman's book came right out of her own journals.

Dwindle said...

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said... 67

4444444444444
What TFW will never comprehend, let alone accept, is that she had 2 years of her OWN show, where she could have displayed Caring Tender Gentle Mom and Lovely Person. Instead, she thought her bread was buttered on being the annoyed, put upon mom, The Most Self Entitled Woman ever. She was rude, condescending, and arrogant on every show. And the mothering skills she displayed were frightening. She is the one who blew it, all on her own.

Tucker's Mom said...

Yup, Milo, Tuma did show his hand... and his brain too!
Well, when I need a legal eagle, writ large, I'll know just who to seek out.
Milo is strategizing the hell out of this.
Give her her J. D., like...NOW!

Anonymous said...

(Leslie)
As far as I am concerned, this is the second time Kate is suing Jon. Remember TLC sued him. Well, common sense tells you that TLC consulted their star "Kate" to see if this was OK with her. And of course it was. In fact, I think Kate probably was the catalyst behind TLC suing Jon. She probably put them up to it. Remember "Can We Sue" was her motto. TLC would have never pursued that lawsuit if Kate was not backing it. For heavens sake, Jon was the father of the eight little kids that were their stars too. They still had many millions to make off of Kate and the kids when that suit was filed. Kate was probably giddy with joy when TLC filed against Jon. That suit probably threw him in bad debt, no doubt. Shame on her.

Call Me Crazy said...

DanielleB - Thanks for the link. I completely agree with the author. Why would anyone ever take such a chance with their child's life? For a few shiny baubles? Not worth the risk.

Lalalalala - Happy Anniversary! I raise a rumspringa to 33 more! Enjoy your celebration!

kids first said...

Thinking of all her failures brings to mind her blogging for The Stir. We never knew what happened with that job, did we?

Midnight Madness said...

Thought it was nice of him and also very professional of him to also send me that in a direct message so it was just for me to see.

***************

But now you posted it here and he's going to know that his DMs to you aren't private.
Thanks for sharing, though! ;)

ncgirl said...

"I don't want to miss a minute of this one.

Popcorn anyone?"

Auntie Ann, Is that popcorn with a surprise? :)

Terri said...

But now you posted it here and he's going to know that his DMs to you aren't private.
Thanks for sharing, though! ;)

What I meant was that all the crazies on twitter couldn't see. Everyone here I trust are not crazy.

getofftwitter said...

Gee, Kate wasted no time, running off to NYC for her hair, yesterday. Dumb enough to brag about it, dumb enough to tell the world I've got no money. She is a tool! Gee, no View, The Talk, Rachel Ray, Ellen, Dr Oz, The Chew, GMA yet! Her book is old news now. I've also notice that Steven & Chris show that is shown here in the US, is not in any order, I've yet to see, her episode. I did watch it online, for a couple of seconds, could not stand her voice or her BS.

Terri said...

You know Midnight Madness you are 100% correct. I guess in my excitement of his tweet I wanted you all here to hear about it and I didn't really think. Consider me reprimanded enough to not do it again.

localyocul said...

The crazies do read here. In fact they are obsessed with this site.

chefsummer #Leh said...

Kate Gosselin ‏@Kateplusmy8 20 Oct
In a kids voice, Collin says:my little kid will say daddy what do I do w my plate? & I'll say buddy, take it 2 the dirty dishbin!
_________

This is something I could see Jon saying but not KK

So does KK think she's Jon now?

localyocul said...

Terri said... 104
You know Midnight Madness you are 100% correct. I guess in my excitement of his tweet I wanted you all here to hear about it and I didn't really think. Consider me reprimanded enough to not do it again.

*******

It's really pretty benign, not like he disclosed client information, just appreciated your joke. But the Jon Haterz twist and deflect. That's their problem though, it's all they have.

I once tweeted a reporter a question about something and he replied in a DM. I couldn't figure out why til I realized he didn't want everyone to see his answer.

Rhymes with Witch said...

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment2/56915842-223/reality-parents-child-masterchef.html.csp

"Could there have been a sweeter show than "Jon & Kate Plus Eight"
before it ran off the rails?"

Actually, yes.

"Continuing to put those children on the air as their parents’
marriage collapsed was nothing short of child abuse."

AMEN.

reader said...

So many capable caring, and intelligent women here. I wanted to take time off away from this blog because I felt so drawn in.
I want peace for those kids, I want them to have a healthy childhood and not be denied a relationship with their father.
I appreciate all the opinions here, even those that make my eyes roll...lol. But moreso I am deeply touched that some of you appreciate mine.

Rhymes with Witch said...

The thing is, these reality tv "stars" try to extend their 15 minutes
virtually all the time............. Working in TV takes talent. Having
a true career takes skill. 78

Apparently Bethanny is a good example of this. She parlayed her
"reality stardom" into her "Skinny" brand but her talk show is not
doing well from what I've read.

As noted, TFW had SO MANY opportunities for endorsement deals and blew them all.

Sorry - can't blame Jon or the haterz.

Rhymes with Witch said...

What TFW will never comprehend, let alone accept, is that she had 2
years of her OWN show, where she could have displayed Caring Tender Gentle Mom and Lovely Person. Instead, she thought her bread was buttered on being the annoyed, put upon mom, 95

Dwindle, I don't think she knows how to be anything else.

NJGal51 said...

Getofftwitter - I could be wrong but I don't think TFW ran off to NY to get her hair done. I think what you saw on twitter yesterday was something that someone in Holland tweeted because it was an episode showing on Dutch TV when TFW got her hair down. It was a screen capture from someone's TV. Sigh, I hate it when I stick up for TFW and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I think blaming Jon or anyone also makes her look weak as well. For heaven sake if you have true talent one pesky little ex shouldn't stop you. She sure gives Jon a lot of credit. Too much.

Good article from Seattle but not very realistic. I disagree that Masterchef is the "worst" reality show. That's a hyperbolic joke, I can think of a dozen right now that were far worse starting with Honey Boo Boo. The comments also make good points, epecially the one pointing out that Fox does not publish the kids' names or bios on their site and there is no evidence anyone is bullying them. I also have a hard time seeing the slippery slope argument. I definitely see a slippery slope with kids who are at home and are exposing so much of themselves as people. I don't see the slippery slope as clearly when this show is effectively a short and sweet game show. Reality t.v. with kids not going away, and Fox and Masterchef should get credit for trying to do it better. The problem with taking such extreme positions (i.e. no kids on reality shows EVER, or "period" as the writer says) is that people tend to tune you out as just that, extreme. As I've said before, I see compromise and making modifications to exiting laws and regulations to put in place better protections as the better, more realistic approach if people are truly concerned about trying to make this better for kids. It's just not going to work to insist they be banned even though I do agree that is the only safe way to ensure kids will be okay. We will ever be able to convince the powers that be that there should be laws banning kids from reality t.v.? I don't see it. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to sign the petition.

Midnight Madness said...

You know Midnight Madness you are 100% correct. I guess in my excitement of his tweet I wanted you all here to hear about it and I didn't really think. Consider me reprimanded enough to not do it again.

***********************

Sorry...I wasn't reprimanding you, just saying that perhaps there was a reason why he DMed you rather than putting it in a tweet for everyone to see.

"It's really pretty benign, not like he disclosed client information, just appreciated your joke. But the Jon Haterz twist and deflect. That's their problem though, it's all they have."

******************

I'm not sure who you are referring to as "Jon Haterz" but it certainly isn't me. I've been rooting for Jon all the way. I think that best thing he's done in this whole mess is hiring Mr. Tuma as his attorney. That man impressed the heck out of me with his Motion To Dismiss. Jon has been through so much that it's good to see that finally something might be going his way.

Speaking of Jon Haterz, one of these days Busybody Gladys is going to butt in one time too many with something that is not going to be favorable to Kate. She insists on sticking her foot in her mouth, She just can't help herself, and she doesn't THINK. it's going to backfire on her, and she will interfere once too often in Kate's business. It will happen.

Midnight Madness said...

Gee, Kate wasted no time, running off to NYC for her hair, yesterday. Dumb enough to brag about it, dumb enough to tell the world I've got no money. She is a tool!

************

I missed that tweet! She said she was in NYC yesterday?

reader said...

Big thanks to Admin and staff for making it flow seamlessly. :)

My one request...we ban the word LOGISTICS from the blog.

And for the record, I don't hate TFW, I hate what she is doing.
Honestly I would be thrilled to see that family heal, yes even if that meant no penalty to TFW. If Jon could be left alone and spend time with his children the way he wants yes...I want peace.
Its a Quaker thing.
(Covering my face with arms as the flying tomatoes come my way)

localyocul said...

Oh, goodness no, Midnight Madness, I was talking about TFW fans. They bitch about "haters" but they are just as bad. I agree with you that there should be caution about just what you posted about.

Lalalalala said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 111

*****

Ditto everything you said, Admin.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I have thought also that this show may have the opposite effect of what we have feared for many reality kids. Instead of being ridiculed, traditional socially awkward, "nerdy" kids might finally get some respect.

Participating in a national cooking competition is something many kids would be in awe of. This sort of thing might empower these kids in much the same way I've heard the SH National Spelling Bee does to awkward kids. It's one thing to be that nerdy kid in the corner playing chess. It's quite another to come home with the biggest trophy in the USA for it.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I have noticed that a lot of people who don't like what Jon is doing have repeatedly accused people of revealing private information about the case that's really not private at all.

Unless there is a no discussion of the case rule, which is VERY doubtful in a case like this that isn't directly about the protection of children, especially since all the briefs have been splashed online, whoever was there can talk about it however much they want. They can say that Kate's attorney went to the wrong court house all the want, they can say what was discussed in the PTC all they want, even if the parties themselves weren't there, and many other things are fair game. This is a different ball game now. We're not talking about Kate's family law case about her children where she could hide behind confidentiality. There's a new sheriff in town.

Midnight Madness said...

Oh, goodness no, Midnight Madness, I was talking about TFW fans. They bitch about "haters" but they are just as bad. I agree with you that there should be caution about just what you posted about.

*************************

Oh, okay! LOL! I just wasn't sure who the Jon Hater was in the context of your post! I'm usually not dense, but I figured maybe I had one too many rumspringas, and the night is still young! ;) Or maybe I've read one too many tweets from that China Vector (?) person!

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Midnight Madness said... 115
Gee, Kate wasted no time, running off to NYC for her hair, yesterday. Dumb enough to brag about it, dumb enough to tell the world I've got no money. She is a tool!

************

I missed that tweet! She said she was in NYC yesterday?
__________________

Is this the tweet in question? She wasn't in New York. Someone in another country tweeted a picture from one of Kate's visits to hair salon that was on Dutch TV:

Anja Zegwaard ‏@anjazeg 24 Oct
Hello @JasonBacke on Dutch TV /TLC ! pic.twitter.com/huOsKJCnNB

Jason Backe ‏@JasonBacke 24 Oct
“@anjazeg: Hello @JasonBacke on Dutch TV /TLC ! pic.twitter.com/Uq94K5vtel” hahah! Look at that @Kateplusmy8

and Kate replied:

Kate Gosselin ‏@Kateplusmy8 23h
@JasonBacke @anjazeg Woah! I bet you're saying 'it's a PSB [Pretty&Straight blonde] day!' Right? Hahahah :) XO

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

I don't want to sound snarky but when you read Kate's tweets from her timeline you'll see the words "view conversation." If you click on that the box opens up and you can see what the tweet is related to. That will often clear up any confusion or questions about what/who she's talking about.

Midnight Madness said...

Is this the tweet in question? She wasn't in New York. Someone in another country tweeted a picture from one of Kate's visits to hair salon that was on Dutch TV:

*****************

Thanks, Tweet-le! Then who said she was in New York yesterday?

This is a very confusing day for me. Perhaps I shouldn't read from the bottom up!

localyocul said...

Midnight Madness said... 120
Oh, goodness no, Midnight Madness, I was talking about TFW fans. They bitch about "haters" but they are just as bad. I agree with you that there should be caution about just what you posted about.

*************************

Oh, okay! LOL! I just wasn't sure who the Jon Hater was in the context of your post! I'm usually not dense, but I figured maybe I had one too many rumspringas, and the night is still young! ;) Or maybe I've read one too many tweets from that China Vector (?) person!

*****

Haha maybe that China person is well, confusing. I probably didn't make myself clear. Having a few Rumspringas here myself. OK , well Coor's Lights.

Anyone know... said...

Who's representing Robert in this case?

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...


Anyone know... said... 122
Who's representing Robert in this case?




James P. Golden
I.D. Nos. 32169
HAMBURG & GOLDEN, P.C. 1601 Market Street, Suite 3310 Philadelphia, PA 19103-1443 (215) 255-8590 goldenjp@hamburg-golden.com
Martin Garbus, Esq. (pro hac vice pending) Brendan R. Marx, Esq. (pro hac vice pending) Eaton & VanWinkle, LLP
3 Park Avenue
16th Floor
New York, NY 10016

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Midnight Madness said... 124
Is this the tweet in question? She wasn't in New York. Someone in another country tweeted a picture from one of Kate's visits to hair salon that was on Dutch TV:

*****************

Thanks, Tweet-le! Then who said she was in New York yesterday?

This is a very confusing day for me. Perhaps I shouldn't read from the bottom up!
_________________

I used to read from the bottom up but it is confusing that way. LOL Someone above commented that Kate tweeted she was in NY yesterday. Just a misunderstanding of the tweet.

Over And Out said...

Bullyville ‏@BullyVille 4h
A quick shout-out to all the strong willed and highly intelligent women out there who really make a difference in this world. #respect

Fired Up 4 Kate ‏@MiloandJack 2h
@BullyVille Thank YOU! LOL But I guess @Kateplusmy8 certainly qualifies way above me! :)

Milo took this personally (even though it was a generic tweet) and thanked BV for a tweet that wasn't even meant for her or for Kate. Still buddies with him, Milo? #superfunwithmyhero

Gayle said...

That one kid (Troy) on MCJ is an actor. Who knew! I saw his bio on IMDb. None of the other kids have bios up

URL/url said...

That one kid (Troy) on MCJ is an actor.
____________________________________

Just as I suspected. Cooking skills, my butt. Dreams of cooking? Yeah, right. It's just a few morally unconscious parents pushing their kids to get famous and make THEM money. What a farce.

njay said...

Anja Zegwaard ‏@anjazeg 24 Oct
Hello @JasonBacke on Dutch TV /TLC ! pic.twitter.com/huOsKJCnNB


Jason Backe ‏@JasonBacke 24 Oct
“@anjazeg: Hello @JasonBacke on Dutch TV /TLC ! pic.twitter.com/Uq94K5vtel” hahah! Look at that @Kateplusmy8

Jason Backe ‏@JasonBacke 24 Oct
@anjazeg thanks for that doll!!!! Xoxoxox

Kate Gosselin ‏@Kateplusmy8 24 Oct
@JasonBacke @anjazeg Woah! I bet you're saying 'it's a PSB [Pretty&Straight blonde] day!' Right? Hahahah :) XO

faith ‏@carroll_co_ga 24 Oct
@Kateplusmy8 @JasonBacke @anjazeg You mean Whoa, maybe.
-------------------------
Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said... 122
Midnight Madness said... 115
Gee, Kate wasted no time, running off to NYC for her hair, yesterday. Dumb enough to brag about it, dumb enough to tell the world I've got no money. She is a tool!
--------------
Tweet-le, sorry if this is not what your talking about. I have just started reading but it does look like it is what some are confused about.

The lady from Dutch TV sent this picture to Jason Backe. From what I can understand it was just to show him what is on TV now where she is. The picture is of Jason Backe doing Kate's hair for TLC. You can see the TLC logo in the background. In the picture there is also some CC wording in Dutch which Kate responds to with "I bet you're saying 'it's a PSB [Pretty&Straight blonde] day!' Right? Hahahah :) XO"

What isn't there though is Milo chiming in with with some smart, lol, remark tweet to Jason Backe translate what is meant by the picture and his response. I guess she thought the picture was real time because she says, "good news?" Or something like that. She must have deleted the tweet because I can't find it now. It took kate one day to respond after Milo from what I saw. Boy, Milo must have her radar on and her settings set to notify her every time someone say's anything about TFW. She was right on the ball as soon as Jason Backe received that tweet from Anjazeg

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Troy is one of the best chefs on the show if not the best. He can legitimately cook.

little speck of dust said...

What I love most about Shawn Tuma is the way he loves his little daughter.

Suzee said...

reader said...
And for the record, I don't hate TFW, I hate what she is doing.
Honestly I would be thrilled to see that family heal, yes even if that meant no penalty to TFW. If Jon could be left alone and spend time with his children the way he wants yes...I want peace.
Its a Quaker thing.
(Covering my face with arms as the flying tomatoes come my way),


I don't think you'll find anything being thrown at you. lol I think the vast majority of the 'members' of this blog feel the same as you. I've never hated TFW, but I do or despise what she's done to her family and the ways she's gone about it. I wish nothing more than for her to be able to acknowledge the hurt she's caused her family and others and to take steps to heal. I wish I could say that I feel sorry for her, but I just haven't evolved it that far yet. lol I shake my head at how differently she sees the world and experiences emotions from the rest of us and at how much she's missed, especially with her kids, but since she says she's happy, I guess she'll never know the difference.

Suzee said...

That one kid (Troy) on MCJ is an actor.
**
Just as I suspected. Cooking skills, my butt. Dreams of cooking? Yeah, right.


All of the kids on the show have fantastic cooking skills. Have you seen what they've made? They make pastry and pasta from scratch, cook meat and fish to perfection, plate food like the pros - all things I still can't do to save my soul and I'm 4-5 times their age.
Talented? You bet they are!
The older girl (the one who wears the plastic bow/headband) revealed last night that she used to be a competitive swimmer. I think they're all exceptional children competing in their chosen passion. I really don't see much difference in kids competing in cooking, swimming, baseball, 4H, spelling bees or whatever their interest.

URL said...

That URL/url comment regarding Troy wasn't mine. I use URL only and I really enjoy the MCJ show. To me, there is no comparison to this cooking show with children and TFW's reality show that totally invaded the kids privacy at home and this constant invasion of privacy at their home was a big part in the exploitation of TFW's children. TLC had the family contracted for 40 shows per season, with back to back seasons. The fact that one child on MCJ is an actor doesn't surprise me, but his cooking skills have nothing to do with acting. He is probably more comfortable in front of a camera than some of the other contestants, but this is a cooking competition. Unless this contestant cooks better than the other remaining contestants his acting skills don't really matter.

Mel said...

While I really don't like kids on tv much, it is vastly different when they're being filmed on a set someplace versus their home *being* the set.

They're being filmed for a particular reason, not to show me the in's and out's of their personal daily life. How would you like a camera following you around all day and have no say in what or whether they filmed?

It's like filming in a home for demented adults....they would have no idea what was going on. That wouldn't be allowed, a huge invasion of privacy.

So why do we allow it to happen to kids?? It's not any different.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I really don't see much difference in kids competing in cooking, swimming, baseball, 4H, spelling bees or whatever their interest.

&&&&

It's the same thing. Some of these kids are obviously gifted and talented. It wouldn't surprise me at all if many of them are kids who are excellent in many other areas. You know, those kids good at everything. I'm willing to bet many of those kids excel in school, at piano or another instrument, at the arts like acting or singing, AND at cooking. That's just how it goes sometimes, multi-talented.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Mel, I agree a real set is different than the home set. And that begs the question, where do we draw the line (which is what a few commentors pointed out) If kids are to be banned from reality T.V. like Masterchef, which is a legitimate set at a studio, then couldn't the argument be made that's really not much different than kids on a set like Kid and Teen Jeopardy, which I understand they do at least once a year? If Masterchef is banned then Jeopardy needs to be banned as well. As well as the SH Spelling Bee, any of the 16 or 17 year olds who go on those singing competition shows, and any other televised competition.

That's the slippery slope here, trying to lump a competition show with a regular bread and butter reality show at a child's home like Jon and Kate, Honey Boo Boo, Little People, 19 Kids and Counting, and so on. It just isn't the same no matter how you slice it. It may be harmful no doubt about it, but it's not the same and to lump it in with those shows filming the children's LIVES I think takes away something from how invasive those other shows can be, and actually takes away from the argument that reality shows with kids are bad.

TLC stinks said...

I gotta say, Kate Gosselin never fails to come up with something for us to talk about, i.e. the lawsuits. I am grateful for the help in explaining in simple terms what the attorneys are saying from the legal eagles that post here. Razzy and his team must only care about the hourly billing to think her BS could possibly win a lawsuit. Still, I would not rule out some deal was cut between BV, Kate, and Razzy. Notice how BV uses those celeb tales of how they were bullied for publicity and hires some to be Bullyville spokespersons. Her admission she was bullied and then the close timing of her alliance with BV was no coincidence. I would love for any former classmates to speak out as to whether she was bullied at all. In fact, she appeared to be very social as a cheer leader and acting in school plays, not the type of quiet loner who gets bullied in school.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I suppose it could happen, but I've never seen a popular, pretty blond cheerleader "bullied."

If she's talking about boo-hoo a few kids made fun of cheerleaders, give me a break. Like she never made fun of ANYONE, EVER?

She reminds me of those people where when someone is talking about their fatal disease, they act like they understand because they once had a paper cut.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

I really don't see much difference in kids competing in cooking, swimming, baseball, 4H, spelling bees or whatever their interest.
_______________

I find nothing wrong with kids competing in any of the above or track meets, chess, etc. What I find unnatural and worrisome is doing it in front of an audience of millions, cameras, lights, retakes, scripting, manipulation and hundred of millions of advertising dollars at stake.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Tweet, not being snarky, but should be ban minors from the Olympics? That's millions, billions watching and millions at stake. Many of the sports, like gymnastics and skating, feature 15, 16 year olds.

I think we have to be careful about where lines are drawn, because IMO to say Masterchef should be banned means that all minors from the Olympics should be banned, as well as any televised competition. Flip around the T.V., kids are competing on T.V. on a regular basis and have been for decades.

TLC stinks said...

The issue I have had with kids in reality tv shows is that they are "forced" to participate. They are minors with no rights. The Gosselin kids were babies and toddlers made to film whatever situations the producers came up with emphasis on embarrassment. No one was allowed to quit or not film even if they were ill.

It is totally different if the child is a talented, willing participant in a series whose rights are protected, unfortunately, from some very greedy adults. Any income earned by the child should be protected at all costs. And most importantly, the child should be able to decide when they've had enough.

It totally angers me when Kate insists the kids miss filming. This is impossible. They were too young to form that opinion on their own. She brainwashes them by hours of old DVD watching of the show.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Admin, it's nothing I can put my finger on specifically. It's the UNreality of it that makes me feel there's something phony about it all. Yes, the Olympics are terribly commercialized, but there are no retakes, no one with a clapboard in front of their faces telling them to act happier, lights, camera, action, etc.

And I didn't say anything about a show being banned. My solution was to stop watching. I didn't mention banned at all.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


It totally angers me when Kate insists the kids miss filming. This is impossible. They were too young to form that opinion on their own. She brainwashes them by hours of old DVD watching of the show.


&&&&


This has always bothered me too. Maybe the twins might remember, but there is no way the Tups could have anything but fuzzy memories of the very, very last few years of filming. The fact that so much of their memories are black, because they were babies, means they can't possibly remember how LONG they filmed or everything they were put through. They don't remember the potties or the vomiting or most of the long and stressful trips. They also were never as involved in school as they are now because they were just in pre-K. They can't really compare how they felt then with how they would feel now. A few fuzzy memories of the end of filming when they were just in preK is not an accurate representation of how filming would be for them NOW. Therefore, they can't possibly know whether they want to embark on such an elaborate filming schedule again. And they probably won't know unless they've already signed a contract and committed to it and gone through with it.

Tweet, that makes sense. Unfortunately I think a lot of where we've been coming from on these shows are "something just doesn't smell right." And often that's true. It's an area that is so complex with so many variations I think it's hard to pin down where to draw the line that makes sense in all situations.

Rhymes with Witch said...

I suppose it could happen, but I've never seen a popular, pretty blond
cheerleader "bullied." 143

No doubt she was a cheerleader and most likely pretty, but she was
definitely not blonde. (There have been pictures posted online, and look at her in the early shows).

Paula said...

Just a thought on the Gosselin children watching their old tv episodes. I wonder how true that really is? By watching the tv show they can really see how badly Kate treated their father and the other loved ones in their lives. Yes, there are great "adventures' to be re-lived, but they mother's hateful behavior is also on full display.

just kidding said...

TLC stinks said:

It totally angers me when Kate insists the kids miss filming.

*************************************
"The kids miss filming" Kate translation - "I miss getting a huge, HUGE paycheck for doing nothing. I guess I shouldn't have constantly pushed TLC for more & more and just appreciated what I had"

"I am a bully victim" Kate translation- "I tell lies, lots of them. Anyone who dares to tell the truth about me is bullying me."

"I needed to file this lawsuit to protect my children and ensure their safety." Kate translation- "I needed to file this lawsuit for the publicity, first and foremost. Secondly, I need to get full custody of my kid's trust funds.... err... I mean kids... so I can be in full control."

The above is all snark and IMO :)

NJGal51 said...

njay - Here's Milo's tweet.
========
@MiloandJack: @JasonBacke @anjazeg @Kateplusmy8 LOL Translation please Jason! > pic.twitter.com/iciogWnMtI Ur both smiling...has 2b something good! :)

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


========
@MiloandJack: @JasonBacke @anjazeg @Kateplusmy8 LOL Translatiolease Jason! > pic.twitter.com/iciogWnMtI Ur both smiling...has 2b something good! :)


&&&

Milo is mostly just amusing these days. That must have been filmed three odd years ago. I'm sure Jason and Kate remember exactly what they were laughing about at that very moment three years ago. She should ask that person to translate the Dutch for heaven sake if she really has to know.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

This is an old comment from Westcoaster about The Help I came across in cleaning out my email and it struck me how applicable it is to the lawsuit. Doesn't it get TIRING to hate on Jon? Doesn't it get tiring to not move on? Doesn't it get tiring to want to "get" everyone for every last transgression?

Westcoaster has left a new comment on your post "Kate takes kids for
back-to-school haircuts in fir...":

SPOILER ALERT if you have not seen the movie The Help, step way and do
not read, BUT if you have seen the movie and if you have read the book,
there is a scene where Aibiline, the maid, says to the truly mean girl,
HIlly Holbrook, "ain't you just tired Miss Hilly? Ain't you just
tired?" And she means, are you not just tired of all the angry, nasty
things you do and say to people. It's more powerful because black women
did not talk to white women that way in the early 60's, but no matter
because it really did make me think of K8. OK, not at the moment, but
later thinking about the scene and the movie.

It takes a powerful lot of negative energy to live your life as a mean
person. Of course, the Hilly character and Kate in the real, they do
not have the insight for any of this, but oh, the energy that could be
put to living a positive, nicer life. For K8, drop the twitter, focus
on your children, just step away from unreal 'reality' tv or now, the
notion that you can still make it in that world. No wonder she is so
exhausted - all that negative energy.

Formerly Duped said...

Idk, my kids have memories from age 2 on, and so do I. I think the tups may remember a lot.Especially 'bad' times.

Another former child star who was messed up by TV was Mary McDonough (Erin) of the Waltons. She ended up getting very ill from lupus from breast implants and the leaking silicone also inured her unborn daughter. She was told she would never make as an adult actress unless she was blond, thin , and had a large bust. I have ordered her autobiography- she also went to great lengths to lose weight. Low self-esteem and conforming to Hollywood's standards.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I don't mean they have no memories from toddler hood. I remember a hernia operation I had when I was 2 1/2. But let's be honest memories from that young are hazy and distorted. A three year old might remember we were whisked off to Florida, I got ice-cream, Mickey hugged me. They are unlikely to remember the crying and tears and long hours and stress. A little child doesn't catalogue and remember the way an older child and adult would. Memories are more like hazy waves lacking in finer details and often a bit distorted of the truth. They also have the added influence of "remembering" the film they have seen which is a widely accepted phenomenon when it comes to memories. Memories really can be twisted and distorted to something they are not just by being influenced by someone else telling you how it was, or a photo or film.

Ally said...

I wanted to make a comment about something discussed up thread. About Kate dropping the suit. She would never drop it no matter how bad it got for her to keep going. First, she is never wrong. She can't conceive the premise. But I am reminded of the K+8 episode when they went to New Zealand and did the sky jump. There was something that Kate said that I have never forgotten. She stated how she doesn't like things beating her, she likes to beat things! I thought that very strange when discussing the sky jump. Now it's one thing to want to conquer your own fear of heights, but jumping was about " beating" a tower? And, if Mady and Cara didn't jump then she didn't have to, but if they did, then she HAD to?? Why? Because no one can have anything unless Kate does too. That episode was so painful to watch and I was cringing with shock and embarrassment for her children. For what it's worth, I don't think she ever apologized to that sky jump worker. Has Kate ever apologized to anyone, ever in her life?

This suit is not about "winning" as much as it is about "beating" Jon. I know that sounds like the same thing, but it's not. It's like the Sylvia LaFair suit, Kate lost, yet she "beat" her because as a mentally sane woman she decided it was not worth the aggravation to keep after her. Thus, Kate beat her, and her disciples imply that as winning. Sometimes knowing when to walk away from a crazy situation is winning! In this case, she had pushed too far...no one will be backing down to her...finally, we will get to see some justice.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

susan said... 17
I am amazed that a lawyer has not offered to represent or even help Jon get those dear souls off of TV and away from that abusive mother. I would think with all of the negative publicity regarding Katie Irene that now is the best time a good attorney comes forward to help Jon.
December 23, 2010 at 12:14 PM

&&&

Susan are you still here? Three years later that lawyer finally showed up!

Call Me Crazy said...

The inherent difference between a real-time competition such as the Olympics and Reality TV is in the motivation. The Olympics began not only as a way for young men to display their physical prowess, but to foster the relationships between various Greek cities. The stated purpose of the Olympic Movement is to:

– link sport with culture and education;
– promote the practice of sport and the joy found in effort;
– help to build a better world through sport practised in a spirit of peace, excellence, friendship and respect.

Now certainly, the Games have evolved (devolved maybe?) since ancient times into an endeavor that makes millions of dollars for broadcast networks, host cities, advertisers, and some athletes, but that does not change the fact that they are intended to celebrate physical prowess and the human spirit, and bring countries together in peaceful competition. I have no doubt that if the billions of dollars went away, there would still be great desire and effort to continue the competitions in some way, shape or form.

Reality TV has one purpose only: to make boatloads of money for producers, networks and advertisers. They can crow all they want that their goal is to show off some talented youngsters, but we all know that that is merely an attractive by-product of their true motivation. If the show doesn't make money, it's gone. See ya, talented youngsters.

I am not against showcasing the talents of kids on TV, whether those talents range from intellectual to physical in nature, especially in real-time competitions. Like Tweet-le, however, the scripting and manipulation and manufacturing of storylines and personalities that we all know are the foundation of Reality TV are the things that disturb me most. And while some extra precautions may be taken for kids on these shows, the formula itself will never change as long as it is successful. And therein lies the danger.

Let's throw tomatoes said...

Kate was a cheerleader?? Cheerleaders are flexible, look at Snooki who does backflips and bends all directions, and Kate can't even touch her toes. So she was a cheerleader? Wow.

As far as hating Kate I think hate is a very strong word and I don't hate people. Especially someone I don't know but I really DISLIKE her.
Everything she is and does in her life is unlikable but when you throw in abusing defenseless babies ( kids?) and animals that is unforgivable!!
And the worst part is she shows no remorse! That is what I can't forget or forgive. I will never feel sorry for her, especially that she can't make more money off her kids!

Call Me Crazy said...

Ally said ... 157

This suit is not about "winning" as much as it is about "beating" Jon.
___________________

Ally, I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Rhymes with Witch said...

Now it's one thing to want to conquer your own fear of heights, but
jumping was about " beating" a tower? And, if Mady and Cara didn't
jump then she didn't have to, but if they did, then she HAD to?? 157

I agree, she had to "beat the tower." She also had to beat Mady and
Cara at this endeavor.

She always has to be 'first" and everyone has to know it. What a sad
way to live.

Let's throw tomatoes said...

It's amazing that Susan used the word " abusive ' back in Dec. 2010. Robert's book had not even been written yet. So her " realist reality " show was pretty real if Susan saw abuse even before Kate told us she abused her kids.

DanielleB said...

Just a thought on memories of your early years. I read a blog post written by a young mother who was taking her two year old daughter to Disney World. She was so excited to be taking her. She and her husband set up a way to surprise the little girl with the news.
Someone commented that they thought it was silly to make such a big deal and even sillier to take such a young child to Disney because it's so expensive and they're not going to remember it anyways so why waste the money.
The mom commented back that she didn't care if her little girl wouldn't remember. That toddlers live in the moment, and at that moment she would be having the best time of her life so far. And that was what was important to the parents, to give their child fun and special times, not worrying about whether or not they would remember every detail of everything they did.

I sort of remember some things from when I was two or three, but sometimes I wonder if I'm truly remembering things or if I think I do because of hearing stories from my parents and grandparents.

That's why I wonder if the Gosselin kids only "remember" things because they see it over and over on DVD. Even when they went to fun places like Disney, Dutch Wonderland, Crayola, their screeching mom sucked all the fun out of it for them. Like someone upthread said, if I were Kate I wouldn't want them watching videos of the show as they get older, because they're eventually going to start thinking something isn't right about her behavior towards their dad or the way she had meltdowns over the silliest things.

handinhand said...

How can Kate say on the one hand that the kids miss filming and then on the other hand say they were just living their ordinary normal lives running in and out of frame? Aside from the travel (which she could and should still provide for them) what should there really be to miss?

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Call Me Crazy said... 159

Excellent post.

chefsummer #Leh said...

KK did say she wanted to beat the tower and that she didn't want to be shown up my C&M.

I also don't believe for one second that she's afraid of heights. She'd been in hot air balloons min air plane and regular air planes.

If she was truly scared she wouldn't have went up the tower to began with-(IMO)- I mean they had to tell her what she was doing b4 the cameras started rolling.

Ally said...

Admin 156...

Regarding memory distortions and childhood. I agree 150%. I have often felt the same way about my own life. I have seen my childhood photos so much sometimes I wonder if I really remember the event or I'm just remembering a picture. It's weird not knowing if they are your real memories. Great post...took the words right out of my mouth.

TLC stinks said...

Haha. True, Kate is not a natural blond, but yes she is pictured in her yearbook as a cheerleader. I thought she looked great when she got the highlights in that makeover after the tummy tuck. The straight yellow blond now is so skanky and Hollywood. She used to have thick, curly hair but I think now she has to supplement it with hair extensions for those photos where it's all thick and wavy. It looks pretty thin when she has it pulled back.

I TOTALLY agree that you would think she would not want the kids watching the DVD's of the show with her bad behavior, but maybe that's the norm for the kids anyway. Maybe they are growing up thinking it's ok to screech and yell at people. I suspect the household is one big yelling pit with a pecking order. No wonder two tups were suspended from school. Even on the show the kids were physical with each other. Siblings are going to fight, but their mother is a terrible role model for getting along with people.

Kate is very vindictive. Because she has not been able thus far to cut Jon out of the kids' lives like she has done with others, the lawsuit will carry on to its bitter end. Even if a judge dismisses the allegations, I would not put it past her to invent some other reasons to deny Jon his parental rights in round about way. At every step she makes his life miserable even though they are divorced. In her mind, Jon stopped the money train. He didn't play ball. He needs to disappear (just like Kevin, Jodi, grandparents, etc.)

TLC stinks said...

I am not so sure the Gosselin kids had that much fun on their filming "vacations" anyway, even if they remember. Werny Girl said they were in and out of the corn maze pretty quick just to film. No fun exploring there after shooting. And then there were probably countless retakes for all those bazillion shows. Maybe those melt downs, from the kids being tired and hungry, were "prodded along" to get them on film screaming with Jon and Kate reacting. That was the reality. And for those of us who have travelled with small kids on an airplane on long trips, that must have been torture for those kids. Yep. Those kids really miss filming. Such BS from Kate.

PDMan said...

@MiloandJack: @JasonBacke @anjazeg @Kateplusmy8 LOL Translation please Jason! > pic.twitter.com/iciogWnMtI Ur both smiling...has 2b something good! :)

=========================

It translates to "If you know how often I hear that..."

Google is your friend.

Vanessa said...

I agree, she had to "beat the tower." She also had to beat Mady and
Cara at this endeavor.
********************************************************************

The thing is she DIDN'T conquer the tower, IT conquered her! When you curl up into the fetal position sobbing uncontrollably ready to barf, that to me is NOT conquering a fear. Cara and Mady "conquered" that tower, all smiles and a genuine look of pride. But like alllll things tfw rewrites history to suit her needs-couch interview afterwards? Oh yeah right, you beat that thing! Loser

Smoochie said...

I have an excellent memory of things past, for which I am grateful. I grew up around the world due to my father being in the US Air Force, so experienced and saw some amazing things, but, I agree with others here, that it's bits and bobs you remember from your youngest years.

My sister is not so lucky, she doesn't remember a lot from our childhood and relys on pictures, videos and others memories to prod some of hers, but some things she just doesn't remember. For most it's an extraordinary event, experience, etc. be it good or bad, something that makes it stand out.

This is a comment I posted on another blog, where we were discussing children on reality TV and it has to do with memories:

What also isn't addressed with Reality TV and what the 'sheeple' of these shows can't see or choose not too, is that the show turns their home into a film set, lights, electrical, boom mikes, camera's, etc. and it's no longer a safe haven, where a child should be able to have private time and live their lives without public scrutiny.

It disrupts 'normal' life and also becomes a travelogue to new places and situations.

For the Gosselin's & others, pulled out of school, away from real life, a camera put in their face while filming that week's 'episode', whether they want to or not, sick or healthy, etc. Therefore, not only exploiting what should be their private every day lives at home, but acting 'on script', including multiple takes, for that weeks 'episode' and being filmed for their reactions. They are not playing a character in a movie or TV show, they're portraying themselves, being applauded, criticized, laughed at for their words, behaviour, actions, reactions, meltdowns, while not being protected on set or paid!

Memories of an event are one thing, but the show portrays something else. How confusing it must be not knowing what's real and what's not? I was sick during filming, it was so hot, I was uncomfortable, thirsty, hungry, yet it shows us playing at a park, having a birthday party, maybe I'm wrong... Oh great, now it shows me crying, everyone thinks I'm a brat cause I wasn't having fun at the party!

People can be cruel, how are they supposed to defend themselves in the future to people who preformed opinions based on their, their siblings & their parents lives, good and bad, portrayed on TV? It's easy to say ignore it, but think back to your embarrassing moments and now imagine millions of people saw it and know and you know they know ...

AuntieAnn said...

I agree Vanessa. She beat nothing, her kids witnessed it, so she proved not a thing except that she's obstinate and obnoxious. Heck, everyone already knew that. She really upset them in the process too. They were all smiles and cheering her on up until then.

Geez. You don't have to beat everything in life. Admit defeat once in awhile instead of making a total ass of yourself.

handinhand said...

Paula said... 150
Just a thought on the Gosselin children watching their old tv episodes. I wonder how true that really is? By watching the tv show they can really see how badly Kate treated their father and the other loved ones in their lives. Yes, there are great "adventures' to be re-lived, but they mother's hateful behavior is also on full display.
---------------------------------------------------------
It's scary to think Kate may have been on her best behavior because the cameras were rolling. Maybe the kids really do miss filming after all.

Mel said...

She didn't beat that tower...it pounded *her* .... to smithereens.

PA DutchMom said...

Kate was a cheerleader?? Cheerleaders are flexible, look at Snooki who does backflips and bends all directions, and Kate can't even touch her toes. So she was a cheerleader? Wow.

&&&&&&&&&&&

Back when Kate was a cheerleader at a very small private Christian school, the girls didn't do the cheers that they do now. There was no football team, and cheers for basketball were rather standard stuff -- just some dance moves, doing the pom pom routine, etc....not the complicated moves and gymnastics that are done now. No flip flops or acrobatics required.

PA DutchMom said...


Milo is mostly just amusing these days. That must have been filmed three odd years ago. I'm sure Jason and Kate remember exactly what they were laughing about at that very moment three years ago. She should ask that person to translate the Dutch for heaven sake if she really has to know

&&&&&&&&&&&&

They could have been laughing at the lovesick Milo and her obsession to walk with Kate into the sunset.

Susan said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 158
susan said... 17, Yes, Admin, stlll here. At last Jon will have some measure of justice. He certainly has grown up, learned from his mistakes and is doing right by his children.
Let's throw tomatoes said... 16

Yes, I could clearly see abuse when they were younger. Gumgate was a huge wakeup call for me. Shouting in that poor childs face while she roughly pulled of his "gum" sock, carrying on and then hurting her sobbing childs heart even more by tossing his lovey in the trash right there in front of him. Heartless witch. If she could carry on like that in front of an entire crew, I could only imagine what happened to them in privacy.
Also, she treated her children like posessions.

Jon stated in a recent interview that he just might get pushed over the edge soon and tell it like it is. Hope that happens as soon as this mess is over. Kate will take this to the bitter end because she terrified of Roberts new book. Robert is about to take his seat on the talk show circuit and she knows it.




PA DutchMom said...

CHINA EL ZODIVULKAN ‏@Vector64China 7m
@Kateplusmy8 What were your meals when you were dancing with the stars? You looked cute and thick.

LOL!! Is that a compliment?

JoyinVirginia said...

It is a beautiful day on the North Carolina coast. I hope everyone is having a wonderful day and can get outside and enjoy the sunshine and build up your vitamin d levels. Also if your football team of choice is playing today,.I hope they get lots of touchdowns.

handinhand said...

Anyone care to go OT and talk Halloween costumes? I so love this holiday.
I saw a child who had two sheets of white poster board strung over his shoulders leaving the front and back of the board hanging down over his chest and back, like a walking billboard. His mother cut small styrofoam balls in half and painted them. She glued them on the boards in rows of like colors so he looked like candy dots, the little sugar circles you eat off of white paper. So creative and cute.

LBelle said...

Smoochie....173:

Excellent, excellent post! Have read it 4 times already.

Roxy said...

This article Describes TFW +family to a T.

Abusive narcissists require someone who is willing to cater to their needs and to give up their own desires.

http://galatictours.blogspot.com/2013/06/relationship-dependents-abusive.html

Let's throw tomatoes said...

It's one of my kids birthday this week and we went to Horror Nights at Universal Studios last night. My kids thought it would be funny to scare the crap out of mom! Hey I'm old ( well not that old ) and nothing scares me anymore. It was really, really cool. I have never been to something like that!

The mazes are fun. They had Walking Dead, Insidious, and other horror movies. The young people that were there can really scream, funny! We took a picture at The Bates Motel with Norman(?) cutting my throat.

The best part were the rides. Transformers is Amazing!! The Mummy,and The Simpsons were also fun! But I don't think I will return next year, it was exhausting! We were there from 7PM to 1AM.

Adult costumes were great. Old clothes and a little makeup go along way. As far as children's costumes my students were also very creative! Some of the homemade costumes were the cutest. Some of my favorites were mailbox, crayons, dinosaur , garbage bag,dog, and their teacher!

I'm done for today, going out to dinner with family and birthday boy! This is the last event!

What happened to celebrating your birthday in one day instead of a whole week???

capecodmama said...

I was a HS basketball cheerleader back in the mid-70's and we had to know basic gymnastic moves or you didn't make the squad. You had to be able to do a forward handspring, cartwheel, round off and split. There was no dancing involved in our cheers. For the life of me I can't see Kate as a cheerleader. Even if it only involved minor dance moves and waving pompoms, I just can't see it.

I haven't had the time to read Tuma's MTD so thanks to all for the recap. I agree with the posters who said this lawsuit is not about TFW winning but about her beating Jon. What an unhappy woman she truly is.

Let's throw tomatoes...Well, the Red Sox won't get a sweep but hopefully they'll take it in the end.

Bitchy Pants said...

Smoochie -- Excellent post. It made me think of Mady. She was barely 6 years old and there were entire websites devoted to calling her a brat and a C&$^ and worse and saying she should be beaten to within an inch of her life (and sadly, she likely was) for acting like a 6 year old. Will Hannah ever live down "Hannah pooped in Hannah's unnerwears"? Will the boys ever be able to live down being called "icky" by their own mother?

Susan -- Yes, unfortunately, there were many red flags screaming "abuse" long before Robert's book came out. Some of the tip-offs for me, besides gumgate, were Joelgate; the way the 3 year olds would scamper to the time-out corner with just a look (What 3 year old do you know who will do that?); the way some of the kids used to shrink away from TFMJG; the way she'd swat and hit at Jon, then tell him not to play the victim when he complained that it hurt. If you go back into the archives at GWOP, you'll find a number of posts outlining why some of the readers called TFMJG abusive. It's sad, and scary, that she was able to get away with it for so long and is, very probably, still getting away with it to some extent.

PA Dutch Mom said...

For the life of me I can't see Kate as a cheerleader. Even if it only involved minor dance moves and waving pompoms, I just can't see it.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

She was. Honest. I saw it! :-)

handinhand said...

Roxy said... 184
This article Describes TFW +family to a T.

Abusive narcissists require someone who is willing to cater to their needs and to give up their own desires.

http://galatictours.blogspot.com/2013/06/relationship-dependents-abusive.html
---------------------------------------
Very insightful piece.
Thanks so much for bringing it over.

handinhand said...

Roxy said... 184
This article Describes TFW +family to a T.

Abusive narcissists require someone who is willing to cater to their needs and to give up their own desires.

http://galatictours.blogspot.com/2013/06/relationship-dependents-abusive.html
-------------------------------
FYI, the picture that accompanies this article might need a NSFW advisory.

Mel said...

My best halloween costume ever....black hat and clothes, including gloves, and a black face. Cut out two egg carton cups. Connect them with black elastic to be a pair of glasses. Use elastic around your head, but under the hat, to keep them on. Spray paint them black, poke a hole in each one to see thru. Glue a million sequins on each one, and anything shiny/sparkly. Wear a pair wings on your back, preferably green. Decorate them with sequins too.

Guess what I am? A fly!

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Kate Gosselin ‏@Kateplusmy8 1h
Amazing 'it just so happens' discount grocery day!Got 81 LBS organic butter&41 bags organic shredded mozz cheese- 1/2 norm price! #LOVE2SAVE
_________________

Buy that much makes me think she didn't leave any for anyone else.

TLC stinks said...

I swear the woman must be a food hoarder with all the crap in her freezers.

TLC stinks said...

Somewhere online there is a picture of her with the other cheerleaders standing in a row on a staircase.

TLC stinks said...

I wonder if the Gosselins will go trick or treating this year? I don't recall if they went last year, maybe just to a party? I do recall the year they went when Uncle Steve took them and Kate napped in the van. That's pretty sad that she couldn't even arouse herself enough to drive the kids to a neighborhood and let them walk from house to house. I always enjoyed walking with the other parents and chatting while the kids ran around. It was a very social time for neighbors.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Buy that much makes me think she didn't leave any for anyone else.

%%%%

Greedy, selfish and inconsiderate. It's people like her why stores have to actual implement COMMON COURTESY policies to please only take five sale items or so. It's people like her why coupons aren't what they used to be anymore. Because people TOOK ADVANTAGE. Thanks, TFW. Thanks. Some people actually NEED these sales to get by this week.

TLC stinks said...

Right, Tweet. She obviously didn't leave any for the other shoppers. So selfish.

Harvest Moon said...

Y. M. Schwartz ‏@YMSchwartz 28m
Sweet! RT @deBBlr: .@Kateplusmy8 nice, I snagged 20lbs of tritip at 1/3 price and a come racks of pork ribs 1/2 price today!

Okay, I give up. What is a "come racks?"

So Kate buys 41 bags of cheese and someone wants to know...

Jessica ‏@jessica_b02 41m
@Kateplusmy8 Wow! Does the cheese freeze too?

Actually they are either going to give it out in lieu of Halloween candy this year, or all 50 people at her holiday dinner are going to consume it in one sitting.

Another person was raving about the brown sugar oatmeal. Seriously? You just have to wonder...

Rhymes with Witch said...

Susan -- Yes, unfortunately, there were many red flags screaming
"abuse" long before Robert's book came out. Some of the tip-offs for
me, besides gumgate, were Joelgate; the way the 3 year olds would
scamper to the time-out corner with just a look (What 3 year old do
you know who will do that?); the way some of the kids used to shrink
away from TFMJG; the way she'd swat and hit at Jon, then tell him not
to play the victim when he complained that it hurt. If you go back
into the archives at GWOP, you'll find a number of posts outlining why
some of the readers called TFMJG abusive. It's sad, and scary, that
she was able to get away with it for so long and is, very probably,
still getting away with it to some extent. 187

It always bothered me that those kids would run to "time out" - it
wasn't natural. Collin's lovey and Joel on the laundry room floor were pretty definitive as well.

During that same time frame, the sheeple were making fun of the non
fans for seeing potential bruises on close up pap pictures of the
kids. Betting many of them were (bruises).

NJGal51 said...

That's going to be a lot of freezer burned organic cheese being slopped all over everything. I really don't like the texture of cheese once it's been frozen and thawed. Maybe it's just me but some things are better used fresh. And why do you need 81 pounds of butter and 41 bags of cheese? Does she have an entire freezer dedicated to butter and cheese?

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

I remember she once said she bought 19 boxes of discounted cereal. I thought what an odd number until I realized that must have been the number left on the shelf.

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