Wednesday, October 23, 2013

Jon's attorney's second motion to dismiss filed

A pre-trial conference was held yesterday in Kate's ongoing lawsuit against Jon and Robert Hoffman. On that date Jon's attorney Shawn Tuma also filed his second Federal Rules of Court 12(b)(6) Motion to Dismiss, and Robert Hoffman also filed a joinder to the motion to dismiss.

The full text of the motion from PACER is here:

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 11-1 Filed 10/22/13 Page 1 of 26
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN, ) ) Plaintiff, )
  • )  CIVIL ACTION v. )
  • )  NO.: 13:4989 JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN, ROBERT )
    HOFFMAN, and JOHN AND JANE DOES ) 1-20 ) ) Defendants. )
    DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
    Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin (“Jon”, “Jonathan,” or “Defendant”), by and through his attorneys, BrittonTuma and Orwig Law Offices, files Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Brief in Support of Motion to Dismiss First Amended Complaint.
I. PROCEDURAL HISTORY
This is Defendant’s second motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s claims. On September 18, 2013, Defendant filed Defendant Jonathan K. Gosselin’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3] seeking dismissal of all of Plaintiff’s claims in the Complaint [Dkt. 1]. Rather than respond to the first motion, on October 2, 2013, Plaintiff filed the First Amended Complaint [Dkt. 10] and withdrew four of the eight claims. Of the remaining claims, two are participatory and premised on the two substantive claims: (1) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and (2) Invasion of Privacy.
In deciding this Motion to Dismiss, the Court faces the following six questions to answer:
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 1 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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II. PRIMARY QUESTIONS PRESENTED
Limitations Bars All Claims. The limitations period for all of Plaintiff’s claims is two years or less. On October 15, 2009, Plaintiff issued a public statement addressing the same allegations she makes in this lawsuit. Plaintiff filed this lawsuit nearly four years later, on August 26, 2013.
Question 1: Are Plaintiff’s claims time-barred?
Satisfaction of CFAA Threshold $5,000 Loss. The CFAA requires Plaintiff to plead she sustained a loss aggregating at least $5,000 during any 1-year period. Plaintiff did not allege any specific time period during which she alleges she sustained the loss.
Question 2: Did Plaintiff plead a $5,000 loss during any 1-year?
Under the CFAA, loss means cost of remedial measures taken related to impairment or damage to a computer or data (including online accounts). Plaintiff alleged information was taken from a computer, not that a computer was impaired or damaged.
Question 3: If there was no impairment or damage to a computer, could Plaintiff have sustained a loss?
Plaintiff alleges the loss is (1) the cost of her time spent investigating and assessing harm caused by the access (but not harm to the computers), (2) lost revenue, and (3) consequential damages. Plaintiff’s time was not spent investigating or repairing damage to a computer or data. Lost revenue and consequential damages cannot be a loss unless there was interruption of service. Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Question 4: Where there is no damage to a computer or data and no interruption of service, can loss be comprised of time spent investigating, lost revenue, and consequential damages?
Satisfaction of CFAA Access. The CFAA prohibits unauthorized access of computer or online information, not misuse or misappropriation. Plaintiff’s access allegations are speculative, naked assertions that do not specify the computer or account accessed, when accessed, or how access was accomplished.
Question 5: Do conclusory allegations of logging into an unspecified “email account” or “bank account” suffice to state a CFAA wrongful access claim?
Publicity Given to Private Life Requires Information Be True. To state a claim for public disclosure of private facts it is essential that the facts disclosed be true. Plaintiff does not allege the facts disclosed are true but claims some are false and defamatory.
Question 6: Unless Plaintiff alleges the facts disclosed are true, can she state a claim for publicity given to private life?
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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III. STATEMENT OF RELEVANT FACTS
On June 12, 1999, Jonathan K. Gosselin and Katie I. Gosselin (“Kate”) were married. Kate is a registered nurse, last working in the nursing industry in December 2006. Jonathan is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, last working in the information technology industry in November 2007, as an information technology analyst for the Pennsylvania Governor’s Office.
While married, Jonathan and Kate lived together in the same home. In their home was a Dell desktop computer (the “Dell Computer”) that Jonathan purchased in 2002, which is licensed to Jonathan. The Dell Computer had a Microsoft Windows XP operating system and Microsoft Office software, both of which were licensed to Jonathan. Jonathan was always the Administrator of the Dell Computer; Kate was only a Power User and had no administrative permissions. Jonathan’s Dell Computer eventually became the Gosselin family computer and the children began playing on it using either Jonathan’s account or Kate’s account.
Jonathan regularly backed up the hard drive of the Dell Computer and the backups were saved to CD ROM or DVD discs. The backups included .pst files containing Personal Folders belonging to Jonathan and Kate which were stored in the Microsoft Outlook email program under the following directory: C:/Documents and Settings/outlook.
On June 22, 2009, Kate filed for divorce. After Kate filed for divorce, Jonathan moved out of the family home and into an apartment above the garage of the family home (the “Apartment”); Jonathan left his Dell Computer in the family home for continued use by his children. Jonathan was still permitted access to the family home during this time. On or about April 2010, Jonathan observed the hard drive of his Dell Computer was failing so he performed a backup of it and stored the data on DVD discs. Jonathan created two copies of the DVDs, one for himself and one for Kate. These final backup DVDs included family pictures, business contracts, and other information. The backup DVDs were labeled and dated for archival purposes.
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Once the divorce was final, Jonathan was required to move from the Apartment; Kate continued living in the family home. When Jonathan moved from the Apartment, he left Kate’s copy of the backup DVDs in the Apartment in a box along with other items he believed Kate would want. He informed Kate that the DVDs were in the box. The following day Kate contacted Jonathan and asked if he would be returning for any other items left in the Apartment; he responded that he was not and she could keep or discard the items as she saw fit. The children volunteered to Jonathan that Kate (and her friend) threw away in the trash everything left behind in the Apartment (presumably, including Kate’s copy of the DVDs that Jonathan left behind). Jonathan has not wrongfully accessed any computer, online accounts, or telephone belonging to Kate—it is far more plausible that Kate threw out the DVDs in the trash herself.
Shortly thereafter, the hard drive of Jonathan’s Dell Computer failed. Jonathan destroyed the hard drive in a manner consistent with his training by taking it apart, removing the physical disc, physically destroying the physical disc, and then discarding the pieces away separate from the actual hard drive device.
IV. ARGUMENTS AND AUTHORITIES
A. The First Amended Complaint Fails To Meet The Minimum Legal Standards Required To Survive A Rule 12(b)(6) Motion To Dismiss.
1. Plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint consists of little more than threadbare recitals of the elements of causes of action and conclusory statements.
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) provides that a complaint must be dismissed if it fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. While a court considering a motion to dismiss is required to review the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, there are minimal standards that must be met. Conclusory allegations, legal conclusions couched as factual allegations, or mere recitation of the elements of a cause of action, are not entitled to such presumption.
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Even under the liberal notice pleading standards of Rule 8, a plaintiff must provide sufficient factual allegations to demonstrate a plausible claim for relief prior to the court unlocking the doors to expensive discovery. “[T]he pleading standard Rule 8 announces does not require ‘detailed factual allegations,’ but it demands more than an unadorned, the-defendant- unlawfully-harmed-me accusation.” Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009) (quoting Bell Atl. Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555-56, (2007)).
In Iqbal, the Supreme Court provided a concise guide with three steps for courts to follow when considering a motion to dismiss. The Court draws a key distinction between what it calls “conclusory allegations” and “factual allegations” and treats them very differently. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 680-81. The Court began its analysis with what is often referred to as “the two-pronged approach” set forth in Twombly, 550 U.S. at 556, and expounded upon it to further explain the steps for reviewing a motion to dismiss: (1) reject the “bald allegations” because bald allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true; (2) considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.” See id. at 679-82.
a) Reject the “bald allegations” because “bald allegations” are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.
In Iqbal, the Court explained the principles for why the “bald allegations” must be rejected. “First, the tenet that a court must accept as true all of the allegations contained in a complaint is inapplicable to legal conclusions. Threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements, do not suffice.” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. Rule 8 does not unlock the doors of discovery for a plaintiff armed with nothing more than conclusions. Id. at 678-79.
Reviewing the complaint at issue in Iqbal, the Court stated “[w]e begin our analysis by identifying the allegations in the complaint that are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Id. at
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680. The Court then looked at the following allegations: (1) “petitioners ‘knew of, condoned, and willfully and maliciously agreed to subject [him]’ to harsh conditions of confinement ‘as a matter of policy, solely on account of [his] religion, race, and/or national origin and for no legitimate penological interest.’” (2) “Ashcroft was the ‘principal architect’ of this invidious policy, and [] Mueller was ‘instrumental’ in adopting and executing it.” Id. at 680-81. The Court referred to these as “bare assertions, much like the pleading of conspiracy in Twombly, amount[ing] to nothing more than a ‘formulaic recitation of the elements’ of a constitutional discrimination claim, namely, that petitioners adopted a policy ‘”because of,” not merely “in spite of,” its adverse effects upon an identifiable group.’ As such, the allegations are conclusory and not entitled to be assumed true.” Id. at 681.
The Court made it very clear, however, that it was “not reject[ing] these bald allegations on the ground that they are unrealistic or nonsensical.” Id. Instead, “[i]t is the conclusory nature of [the] allegations rather than their extravagantly fanciful nature, that disentitles them to the presumption of truth.” Id. In other words, the Court declared war on “bald allegations” because of their conclusory nature.
b) Considering only the “factual allegations,” use common sense and judicial experience to consider the plausibility of the allegations and whether there is an “obvious alternative explanation.”
Next consider only the “factual allegations” in the complaint to determine if they plausibly suggest an entitlement to relief. Id. at 681. “Determining whether a complaint states a plausible claim for relief will . . . be a context-specific task that requires the reviewing court to draw on its judicial experience and common sense. But where the well-pleaded facts do not permit the court to infer more than the mere possibility of misconduct, the complaint has alleged—but it has not ‘show[n]’—‘that the pleader is entitled to relief.’” Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 679.
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The complaint in Iqbal contained “factual allegations” that, taken as true, were consistent with the plaintiff’s claim for relief but that was not the end of analysis. There were more likely explanations which explained those events in a way that made the “factual allegations” not plausible. The plausibility requirement is what made the difference between granting and denying the motion to dismiss. That is, the Court found there were factual allegations that supported the plaintiff’s theory of the case and that there were alternative theories as well. Relying upon its common sense and judicial experience, the Court compared a “’obvious alternative explanation’” to the theory advanced by the plaintiff and inferred that the theory advanced by the plaintiff was not a plausible conclusion. Id. at 682.
The Court went deeper into the analysis. It reasoned that even if the factual allegations supporting the plaintiff’s theory had given rise to a plausible inference in its favor, that inference alone would not entitle it to relief. Id. The Court then went a level deeper into the discrete nuances of the specific claims pleaded by the plaintiff to see if the complaint contained sufficient factual allegations to support not only the claims in general, but the discrete nuances of the claims as well. Id. The Court found that the complaint failed to do so. The complaint failed to “’nudg[e]’” the claim “’across the line from conceivable to plausible.’” Id. at 683 (quoting Twombly, 550 U.S. at 570). Where the factual allegations fail to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible, the pleading is inadequate.
c) 3 Questions: “no” to any of these questions requires dismissal.
In summary, the Court’s Iqbal analysis provides 3 questions to ask when analyzing a complaint to determine if it fails to state a claim:
1. Ignoring all “bald allegations” and “legal conclusions,” do the “factual allegations” support the elements of the claim?
2. If so, does common sense and judicial experience suggest the plaintiff’s theory of the claim is plausible or that there are more likely alternative explanations?
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3. If not, are the factual allegations supporting the discrete nuances of the claim strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible?
A “no” to any of these questions means the allegations in the complaint do not meet the Supreme Court’s Iqbal standards and must be dismissed. Two exemplary cases demonstrate that Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint does not make it past the first question.
2. Two exemplary cases show why the Amended Complaint is too vague and conclusory to support the claims, suggest her theory is plausible, or nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible.
The factual weakness of Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint is analogous to the Amended Complaint in JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter, 931 F. Supp.2d. 514 (S.D.N.Y. 2013), and Complaint in Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards In Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010). The JBCHoldings and Smith courts dismissed the complaints because they contained only vague and conclusory allegations and speculation as to actual facts.
In JBCHoldings, the court addressed the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim urged in this case. The court found that some of the CFAA claims were deficient as a matter of law, but that others could have been viable had the Amended Complaint not been too conclusory and speculative to pass muster. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525. “These are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’ that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss.... [a]lthough the plausibility requirement ‘is not akin to a “probability requirement” ... it asks for more than a sheer possibility that a defendant has acted unlawfully.’ Plaintiff’s pleadings are repeatedly couched in terms of sheer possibility, otherwise known as conjecture.” Id. at 526.
The Smith court rejected similar conclusory allegations where the Plaintiff had not made any factual averments regarding interception of his communications for a Wiretap Act claim, which is as vital to that claim as allegations of access are for the CFAA. The court found Plaintiff’s own allegations demonstrated his claim was a mere fishing expedition for liability: “Plaintiff does not know the exact reason for being blocked. It may be due to eavesdropping or
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some other reason. It is also possible that all reports, blocking and blacklisting are erroneous and no eavesdropping took place.Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11. “What Plaintiff has alleged in effect is the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability. Absent facts to support his speculation, he is not entitled to discovery to see what he may find.” Id.
Compare the substance of Plaintiff’s allegations to those in JBCHoldings and Smith.
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Amended Complaint
“Jon illegally hacked into Kate’s email account, and her phone, and bank accounts.” Am. Compl. p. 1.
“Jon began accessing Kate’s password protected email [and banking] account without her authorization.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11, 14.
“On information and belief, Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone.” Am. Compl. ¶ 24.
“On information and belief, Jon’s unauthorized access to known password protected accounts through the Internet has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶ 25.
“In reality, Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 ... hacked into Kate Gosselin’s various accounts– and the protected computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 32.
“On information and belief, Defendants Hoffman, Jon Gosselin, and Does 1-20 illegally accessed Kate’s computers confidential data ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 38.
“Jon Gosselin, and potentially others ... improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password, without authorization to access the contents of those accounts and the computers ....” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
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JBCHoldings NY, LLC v. Pakter
“someone, currently believed to be Janou, or one of her agents, placed a flash memory drive on JBC and JP computer servers ... in an effort to surreptitiously rip information from the drives.” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 525-26.
“Plaintiffs' technology personnel found spyware and malware on Plaintiffs' servers. They believe the spyware to have been possibly remotely placed. Further, they believe it possible that information was taken remotely by Janou and Puglia. Indeed, according to IT personnel, Janou could have passed along her login-information to Puglia, in excess of her authorized use, which would explain the placement, remotely of spyware or the remote removal of Plaintiffs' data.” Id. at 526.
“upon information and belief, ‘all Defendants’ have been using the two notebooks belonging to plaintiffs that Janou has yet to return.” Id.
Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards
“by monitoring Plaintiff's Internet communications and/or allowing third parties to do so.” Smith, 2010 WL 1799456 at *11.
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The allegations in the Amended Complaint are more conclusory and speculative than those in JBCHoldings, Smith, and Iqbal. There are no factual averments that identify any specific computer or online account that was accessed, when they were accessed, or how information needed to accomplish the access was obtained. This is exacerbated by the frequent “information and belief” allegations demonstrating Plaintiff is speculating.
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Perhaps most telling is the allegation “Hoffman falsely claimed in certain publications that he recovered the data from Kate’s computer by digging through her trash that he found on the street. . . . The materials in his possession could not possibly be physically found in paper format to that extent. If Hoffman was picking through trash on the street, he did not find this trove of personal information while engaging in his trash-picking endeavors.” Am. Compl. ¶ 31. This is not a factual allegation. This is rationalization. This is conjecture. This is speculation—as to why it had to be hacking—because how else could it have happened, right? Or, is there a more plausible alternative explanation?
The JBCHoldings case involved a similar rationalization that was not lost on the court: “Plaintiffs allege that during Janou’s alleged scheme, she was employed by JBC and had ready access to the proprietary information at issue. She could have ... simply copied the information to her personal laptop and shared it with her co-conspirators. This would have obviated the need for her to resort to the type of elaborate ‘outside hacker’ activities in which plaintiffs alternatively speculate she engaged ....” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. At least in JBCHoldings the plaintiff offered an explanation for how the defendant was alleged to have wrongfully accessed the computers. Not so here. In the case at bar, Plaintiff says her login information was used but does not even offer a speculative guess as to how Defendants gained access to that information. Was it a Trojan horse? DDoS attack? Malware? Social engineering? Clairvoyance? We have no idea—neither does Plaintiff.
Plaintiff recites the gist of Defendant Hoffman’s explanation for how he obtained the information—he found the data discs containing the information in Plaintiff’s trash. See Hoffman Ans. ¶ 30 [Dkt. 4]. Yet, she expects the Court to disregard this plausible explanation based only on her conjecture as to what may have been possible—yet, after two tries, Plaintiff
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cannot allege how the access occurred, i.e., how did Defendants have the information to access the computers?
Plaintiff’s allegations are classic “unadorned, the-defendant-unlawfully-harmed-me accusation[s].” See Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 662. They are inadequate to provide a reasonable basis for inferring that Defendants are liable for the misconduct alleged. JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 526. Plaintiff has alleged the mere possibility of liability, but not plausible liability strong enough to nudge the claim across the line from conceivable to plausible. Absent facts to support her speculation, she is not entitled to discovery to see what she may find. Smith v. Trusted Universal Standards in Elec. Transactions, Inc., 2010 WL 1799456, at *11 (D.N.J. May 4, 2010); See JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. Plaintiff’s claims are pure speculation, a fishing expedition, and should be treated as such.
3. A complaint premised upon information and belief allegations, without real factual support, will not survive a motion to dismiss.
Allegations made upon information and belief, without factual support, do not allow the court “to draw the reasonable inference that the defendant is liable for the misconduct alleged,” Sinaltrainal v. Coca-Cola Co., 578 F.3d 1252, 1268 (11th Cir. 2009), and thus do not show that the pleader is entitled to relief. Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 678 (2009); See Wright v. Lehigh Valley Hosp. & Health Network, Inc., 2011 WL 2550361, at *3 (E.D. Pa. June 23, 2011).
In limited situations where the essential facts are uniquely within the control of the defendant and not capable of being pleaded by the plaintiff, courts have made an exception and held pleading upon information and belief to be appropriate under the Twombly/Iqbal regime. Klein v. County of Bucks, 2013 WL 1310877 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 1, 2013). Even then, however, the plaintiff must plead “a proper factual basis asserted to support the beliefs pled.” Wright, 2011 WL 2550361, at *3; see JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp.2d at 527. But, where the “averments are
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merely ‘a formulaic recitation of the elements of a cause of action’ ... [r]eliance by [Plaintiff] on information and belief cannot transform legal conclusions into plausible factual allegations.” Id.
This is not a case where the essential facts are uniquely within the Defendants’ control and not capable of being pleaded by Plaintiff. The exception by which information and belief allegations may survive a motion to dismiss is inapplicable. Whatever information lies behind Plaintiff’s suspicions has been within Plaintiff’s control—most likely in her own trash.
4. Key Allegations Are Not Relevant To The Causes of Action.
Plaintiff’s allegations must be carefully scrutinized. Some key allegations are not relevant to the claims pleaded. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants wrongfully accessed her cellphone, Am. Compl. p. 1, ¶¶ 24, 52, but does not claim access to the cellphone under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim. Id. ¶¶ 44-51. Plaintiff implies that information from the cellphone was wrongfully disclosed, id. ¶¶ 55-57, yet asserts no causes of action premised on such activity being wrongful to make it so. Plaintiff makes similar allegations regarding the stealing of a hard drive, id. p. 1, ¶¶ 17, 18, and likewise asserts no causes of action premised upon the activity. Allegations regarding the cellphone and hard drive are irrelevant to the claims in this lawsuit.
B. All of Plaintiff’s Claims are Time-Barred and Should Be Dismissed.
All of Plaintiff’s claims have either a one or two year limitations period and are time- barred.1 The lawsuit was filed on August 26, 2013. Plaintiff was aware of and publicly commented on the allegations in this lawsuit roughly four years ago—at least as early as 2009.
The essential allegations underlying Plaintiff’s claims in the Amended Complaint are that
1 The law of this Circuit permits a statute of limitations defense to be raised by a motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6), if it is obvious from the face of the complaint that the cause of action has not been timely asserted. See Kelly v. Eckerd Corp., 2004 U.S. Dist. Lexis 4381, *8 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 11, 2004); First Am. Mktg. Corp. v. Canella, 2004 WL 25037, *5 (E.D. Pa. Jan. 26, 2004) (quoting Robinson v. Johnson, 313 F.3d 128, 135 (3rd Cir. 2002)); Demetrius v. Marsh, 560 F. Supp. 1157, 1159 (E.D. Pa. 1983).
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Defendant accessed Kate’s (1) “password protected email account,” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 11-12, (2) “online, password-protected banking accounts,” Am. Compl. ¶ 14, and (3) cellphone, Am. Compl. ¶ 16. Those are the same three allegations Plaintiff publicly addressed in 2009.
The public record is replete with Plaintiff’s and Plaintiff’s then-attorneys’ statements regarding the exact allegations claimed in this lawsuit dating back to 2009:
"Kate Gosselin has heard the allegations made by Stephanie Santoro that Jon Gosselin [1] 'hacked' into her e-mails, [2] phone, and [3] online accounts, and she is profoundly disturbed by them," her law firm, Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, said in a statement Thursday. "Under the circumstances, Ms. Gosselin is carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she will pursue them if and when the time is right." 2
The foregoing statement by Plaintiff’s then-attorney is on a website dated October 15, 2009.3
1. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claim is time-barred.
The statute of limitations for Plaintiff’s Computer Fraud and Abuse Act civil claim is two years. “No action may be brought under this subsection unless such action is begun within 2 years of [1] the date of the act complained of or [2] the date of discovery of the damage.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). The relevant date for this inquiry is the date of the act complained up because there is no allegation of damage in this case. The limitations period for Plaintiff to assert this claim expired two years after the alleged wrongful access alleged—which necessarily had to occur on or before October 15, 2009 when Plaintiff publicly acknowledged the allegations— nearly four years before she filed this lawsuit.
2 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
3 Kate Gosselin Considering Legal Options Against Jon After Reading Radar Report,
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/10/kate-gosselin-considering-legal-options-against-jon-after-reading-radar- report/
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 13 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
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2. The State law claims are time-barred.
Plaintiff asserts state law tort claims against Defendants for Invasion of Privacy (Count II), Civil Conspiracy (Count III), and Concerted Tortious Action (Count IV). Under Pennsylvania law, the invasion of privacy claim has a one-year limitation period: “The following actions and proceedings must be commenced within one year . . . An action for libel, slander or invasion of privacy.” 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 5523 (West).
Plaintiff’s claims for conspiracy and concerted tortious activity do not stand alone; each participatory and are dependent upon either the CFAA claim or the Invasion of Privacy claim. If those claims are time-barred, so too are the conspiracy and concerted tortious activity claims, both of which independently have two-year limitation periods as well: “[C]laims of . . . civil conspiracy, and concerted tortious conduct . . . . have a two-year limitations period that begins to run on the date of injury.” Brock v. Thomas, 782 F. Supp. 2d 133, 140-41 (E.D. Pa. 2011).
3. The Court may take judicial notice of Plaintiff’s awareness in 2009 of the allegations underlying this lawsuit—it is publicly available information that is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination.
A basic Google search produces numerous results for Plaintiff’s statement by her attorney in 2009 stating her awareness of the allegations now made in this lawsuit and how, at the time, she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right.”4 This event is common knowledge and undeniable.
Precedent in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania demonstrates that the Court may take judicial notice of information such as these websites where the matter is in the public domain and is both generally known and capable of accurate and ready determination. See Wilson v. City of
4 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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Philadelphia, 2010 WL 1254111 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 31, 2010), vacated in part on other grounds, 415 Fed. Appx. 434 (3d Cir. 2011). The Wilson Court was considering a motion to dismiss premised on official immunity issues that required facts concerning the dates and roles of defendant’s prior employment. This information was not available in the complaint or any incorporated documents. In granting the motion to dismiss, the court took judicial notice of information from the defendant’s biography page on a law firm’s website. Id. at n.4.
Similarly, in Inman v. Technicolor USA, Inc., 2011 WL 5829024 (W.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2011), the court was considering a motion to dismiss concerning the interpretation of a website User Agreement that was neither attached to the complaint nor specifically referenced therein but the court determined that it was proper to take judicial notice of the website in granting the motion to dismiss. Id. at 3-4.
4. The information properly before the Court shows that in 2009, Plaintiff was aware of the allegations in this lawsuit and all of her claims are time-barred.
The timeline of the case is straightforward. In 2009, Plaintiff was aware of allegations that “Jon Gosselin 'hacked' into her e-mails, phone, and online accounts,” she was profoundly disturbed by them, and she was “carefully considering all of her legal options regarding this matter, and she [would] pursue them if and when the time is right."5 Now, nearly four years later, Plaintiff has apparently determined that the time is right but it is too late. Plaintiff’s claims should be dismissed with prejudice.
5 New York Daily News: "Jon Gosselin sued by TLC for breach of contract; Kate may take legal action against 'hacking' claims" http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/10/16/2009-10- 16_jon_gosselin_sued_by_tlc_for_breach_of_contract_kate_may_take_legal_action_again.html
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C. The Amended Complaint Does Not Adequately Plead “Loss” or “Access”—Two Essential Elements of a CFAA Civil Claim (Count I).
In Count 1 of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff seeks to avail itself of the civil remedy of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c). Am. Compl. ¶ 41. The elements of a civil claim for a violation of section 1030(a)(2) require Plaintiff to plead and prove that Defendants: (1) intentionally accessed a protected computer, (2) without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and that he (3) thereby obtained information (4) from any protected computer, and that (5) there was a loss to one or more persons during any 1- year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value. See Sealord Holdings, Inc. v. Radler, 2012 WL 707075, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 6, 2012). The Amended Complaint fails to identify any specific computer or account that was allegedly accessed, how it was accessed, when it was accessed, or that there was a $5,000 loss during any 1-year.
1. The Court does not have jurisdiction to consider the CFAA claim because Plaintiff does not meet the $5,000 loss threshold requirement.
In order to bring a civil claim under the CFAA, Plaintiff must plead that, during any 1- year period, she sustained a loss of at least $5,000 because of the CFAA violation. Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3d Cir. 2012); A.V. ex rel Vanderhyne v. iParadigms, LLC, 562 F.3d 630, 646 (4th Cir. 2009). The loss requirement is a jurisdictional threshold that must be satisfied before the court is vested with jurisdiction to decide the case even if the damages are in the millions. See Quantlab Techs. Ltd. (BVI) v. Godlevsky, 719 F. Supp.2d 766, 776 (S.D. Tex. 2010). The reason for the loss requirement is because the CFAA is primarily a criminal statute that only has a limited civil remedy.
To successfully plead a civil CFAA claim a plaintiff must strictly adhere to the multi-step requirements of the statutory framework. First, section 1030(g) provides that “[a]ny person who suffers damage or loss by reason of a violation of this section may maintain a civil action against
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the violator to obtain compensatory damages and injunctive relief or other equitable relief.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g). Second, section 1030(g) goes on to state that “[a] civil action for a violation of this section may be brought only if the conduct involves 1 of the factors set forth in subclauses (I), (II), (III), (IV), or (V) of subsection (c)(4)(A)(i).” Id. Third, looking at the five subsection (c)(4)(A)(i) factors, the only one applicable to the case at bar is (I): “loss to 1 or more persons during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). A plaintiff must satisfy each of these steps for a civil remedy and the critical inquiry is, was there a loss?
Loss is a specialized term that the CFAA defines as:
[A]ny reasonable cost to any victim, including the cost of responding to an offense, conducting a damage assessment, and restoring the data, program, system, or information to its condition prior to the offense, and any revenue lost, cost incurred, or other consequential damages incurred because of interruption of service [.]
18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Plaintiff’s Amended Complaint attempts to invoke sub-clause (I) but the allegation once

again6 misses the mark:
Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin’s computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5,000 in economic losses arising from Jon’s unauthorized use of her password-protected online accounts.” Am. Compl. ¶ 50.
Specifically, Plaintiff's losses arose in the form of the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others' unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers, and the lost revenue and consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation. Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
6 In the Original Complaint Plaintiff alleged "Defendants accessed Kate Gosselin's computer and computer services without authority to do so and in doing so, caused in excess of $5, 000 worth of damage." Compl. ¶ 47.
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Plaintiff’s second attempt at pleading a loss is inadequate for several reasons.
a) Plaintiff ignores the 1-year time period requirement.
Plaintiff does not allege any loss (or economic losses) was incurred “during any 1-year period ... aggregating at least $5,000 in value.” 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Plaintiff does not address, much less confine her claim to the time period required by the statute.
b) Plaintiff did not allege a loss—loss and economic loss are not the same. Plaintiff alleges $5,000 in economic losses in paragraph 50, and in paragraph 51 adds
specificity to what it previously referred to as economic losses: “Specifically, Plaintiff’s losses arose ....” Am. Comp. ¶¶ 50-51. The CFAA requires a “loss” as defined by the statute. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(c)(4)(A)(i)(I). Not damage or damages, each of which also has its own different meaning under the CFAA. They are not interchangeable. Compare 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(8) (“the term ‘damage’ means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information”), with 18 U.S.C. § 1030(g) (“Any person who suffers damage or loss ... may ... obtain compensatory damages .... Damages ... are limited to economic damages.”), and the definition of loss discussed supra, 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(11).
Just as loss is a defined term with a specific meaning under the CFAA, economic losses likewise has a specific, although different meaning. Economic loss means general economic damages. See Lucker Mfg. v. Milwaukee Steel Foundry, 777 F. Supp. 413, 415 (E.D. Pa. 1991) (Economic loss has been defined to include loss due to repair costs, decreased value, and lost profits, consequential damages in the nature of cost of repair or replacement or lost profits, and damages resulting from the loss of the use of the product.) (citations omitted); Palco Linings, Inc. v. Pavex, Inc., 755 F. Supp. 1269, 1276 (M.D. Pa. 1990). Plaintiff’s pleading of $5,000 in economic losses is substantively identical to pleading $5,000 in damages and does not meet the statutory requirement.
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c) The components of Plaintiff’s economic losses do not meet the Third Circuit’s requirement for loss.
The Third Circuit cases are clear on what constitutes a loss. “’Numerous district court decisions in the Third Circuit have held that to fall within this definition of “loss,” the “alleged ‘loss’ must be related to the impairment or damage to a computer or computer system.”’” Brooks v. AM Resorts, LLC, 2013 WL 3343993 (E.D. Pa. July 3, 2013) (citations omitted).
“’A compensable “loss” under the CFAA ... is the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer, or the loss is the amount of lost revenue resulting from a plaintiff's inability to utilize the computer while it was inoperable because of a defendant's misfeasance [i.e., interruption of service].’” Brooks, 2013 WL 3343993, at *5 (citation omitted). Plaintiff does not allege there was an interruption of service. In all other cases, a loss generally means a cost that is directly related to the impairment or damage to the computer, Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5, which Plaintiff has not alleged. Because there was no damage to the computer, “investigating,” “assessing,” and “ensuring the integrity of the information” does not count.
Plaintiff alleges three components to her economic losses: (1) “the cost of her time in investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access of the protected computers where her account information was stored, ensuring the integrity of the information residing on those protected computers; (2) “the lost revenue,” and (3) “consequential damages Plaintiff suffered from conducting this investigation.” Am. Compl. ¶ 51.
(1) Plaintiff’s own time expended is not a loss for two reasons.
The cost of her time cannot be considered a loss for two distinct reasons. First, a loss is a cost, “the cost of remedial measures taken to investigate or repair the damage to the computer” in cases where there is no claim of damage or interruption of service. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff does not allege that there has been damage to a computer (including online services)
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or that there has been an interruption of service. The only thing Plaintiff has alleged is that Defendant copied data from computers—not caused any damage or harm to them. See discussion supra Section IV.C.1.b. She has not alleged that the online services or data were damaged. Time and effort spent investigating and assessing damage to a computer is outside the scope of the loss provision where there was no need to restore data, a program, a system, or information to its condition prior to the Defendant’s conduct. Fink v. Time Warner Cable, 810 F. Supp.2d 633, 641 (S.D.N.Y. 2011).
Second, because there is no allegation of interruption of service, a loss means a cost. Sealord Holdings, Inc., 2012 WL 707075, at *5. Plaintiff’s own time is not a cost. While there are cases in which plaintiff-businesses claim the value of their employees’ time as a cost, in those cases it is a cost to the business because the business must pay the employee for the time expended. Further, because it must pay its employee, it is able to quantify the value of the time by determining how much the employee makes per hour and multiplying that amount by the time the employee expended. See AssociationVoice, Inc. v. AtHomeNet, Inc., 2011 WL 63508, at *8 (D. Colo. Jan. 6, 2011).
(2) Lost revenue and consequential damages do not qualify as a loss.
Plaintiff’s allegation that lost revenue and consequential damages are a loss is incorrect. It is well settled that lost revenue and consequential damages are not a loss when the Plaintiff has not alleged an interruption of service. Eagle v. Morgan, 2012 WL 4739436, at *3 (E.D. Pa. Oct. 4, 2012) (citation omitted). Plaintiff has not alleged interruption of service.
Even if Plaintiff’s time were considered a loss, two of the three components Plaintiff pleads as economic losses are negated. Because Plaintiff includes these two components in her overall allegation of economic losses without segregating or identifying their value vis-à-vis the third component, the Complaint does not adequately allege a $5,000 loss. See Grant Mfg. &
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Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 499 Fed. Appx. 157, 159 (3rd Cir. Oct. 2, 2012); Grant Mfg. & Alloying, Inc. v. McIlvain, 2011 WL 4467767, at *5 n.12 (E.D. Pa. Sept. 23, 2011) aff'd, 499 Fed. Appx. 157 (3d Cir. 2012); Farmers Ins. Exch. v. Auto Club Group, 823 F. Supp. 2d 847, 856 (N.D. Ill. 2011).
d) The loss (i.e., costs) must be reasonable—assuming all other allegations regarding loss were adequate, were they reasonable?
Plaintiff alleges her loss was her time “investigating and assessing the harm caused by Jon and others’ unlawful access” of the online email and bank accounts. Am. Compl. ¶ 51. Plaintiff also alleges “Jon has continued to access Kate’s email account, online banking account, and cellphone . . . [and it] has been continuous and systematic.” Am. Compl. ¶¶ 23-24. Plaintiff’s only allegation as to how these were accessed was Defendant “improperly used Plaintiff’s login information, namely her login user identity and her password.” Am. Compl. ¶ 48.
Basic common sense demands that if your online accounts are being accessed without your authorization, all you need to do is change your password or, at worst, your password and user name. This takes seconds—maybe minutes. Could $5,000 of time even be reasonable for this simple of a fix? Moreover, if she did not do this, could her investigating and assessing be reasonable? And, if she did take this basic first step, how is it that Defendant continues to access these accounts in a continuous and systematic manner? Plaintiff does not say. Considering the circumstances, is it even possible that $5,000 of Plaintiff’s time to, essentially accomplish nothing, was reasonable?
e) After two chances, the Amended Complaint’s loss allegations are still inadequate—dismissal without leave to re-plead is appropriate.
Plaintiff has now had two chances to plead a loss. This issue was specifically challenged on pages 13-15 of Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss [Dkt. 3]. Plaintiff revised her loss allegations in the Amended Complaint but still failed to plead the requisite loss. “A continued omission of
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this information from Plaintiff's pleadings demonstrates that no such damage existed and that Plaintiff cannot meet its pleading burden under the Act. In that same vein, Plaintiff would have been similarly aware of the existence of any interruption in service as a result of alleged violations under the Act. However, despite the opportunity to amend [her] Complaint, Plaintiff completely failed to plead any such damage or loss. Accordingly, Plaintiff's claim under the Act fails.” Advantage Ambulance Group, Inc. v. Lugo, 2009 WL 839085, at *4 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 30, 2009). Plaintiff’s CFAA claim should be dismissed without leave to amend and re-plead again.
2. The Amended Complaint fails to allege how any access could have occurred. The CFAA is an access violation. “The CFAA expressly prohibits improper ‘access’ of
computer information. It does not prohibit misuse or misappropriation.” United States v. Nosal, 676 F.3d 854, 863 (9th Cir. 2012). “[T]he word ‘access,’ in this context, is an active verb: it means ‘to gain access to,’ or ‘to exercise the freedom or ability to make use of something.’” Role Models Am., Inc. v. Jones, 305 F. Supp.2d 564, 567 (D. Md. 2004) (citation omitted). The receipt of information that has come from a computer is not an access of that computer and not prohibited by the CFAA. Id. at 566-67. Because the CFAA governs activity that involves accessing or damaging computers, the access to and use of the computer is integral to the CFAA and not merely incidental. Dresser-Rand Co. v. Jones, 2013 WL 3810859, at *4 (E.D. Penn. July 23, 2013). "Whatever happens to the data subsequent to being taken from the computer subsequently is not encompassed in the purview of the CFAA." Id. The most important allegation for a CFAA violation is the access of a computer. See id. This allegation must be sufficiently developed by alleging facts suggestive of the proscribed conduct. Sealord, 2012 WL 707075, at *6.
a) Speculative, naked assertions of access do not survive a motion to dismiss.
Plaintiff’s allegations of access “are precisely the sort of speculative, ‘naked assertion[s]’
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that do not suffice to survive a motion to dismiss,” JBCHoldings, 931 F. Supp. 2d at 526, as discussed previously in this brief and as demonstrated by the comparison of the allegations found insufficient in JBCHoldings and Smith to those in the Amended Complaint. See discussion supra Section IV.A.2.
b) The Amended Complaint does not allege a specific computer/account that was accessed.
Plaintiff’s CFAA claim alleges Defendant wrongfully accessed two things: “email account” and “bank accounts.”7 Plaintiff does not allege which particular email or bank account Defendant allegedly accessed, which is essential in determining whether they are “protected computers.” Fontana v. Corry, 2011 WL 4473285, at *6 (W.D. Pa. Aug. 30, 2011) report and recommendation adopted, 2011 WL 4461313 (W.D. Pa. Sept. 26, 2011) (citation omitted).
Plaintiff and Defendant were previously married. Am. Compl. ¶¶ 8-11. Given that the lawsuit between them is essentially a family law dispute, it is important to determine whether these accounts existed during their marriage, which may have given Defendant a right to access such accounts (even if the parties did not recognize such right existed). If Defendant had a prior right to access these accounts, Defendant would continue to have a right to access these accounts under the “narrow view” which has generally been adopted by the courts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. See Dresser-Rand Co., 2013 WL 3810859, at *5. Under the narrow view, someone who previously had access to a computer is authorized to continue accessing that computer regardless of his or her intent to misuse information and any subsequent agreements that regulate the use of information. See id. (citations omitted). Accordingly, to determine
7 In the Preliminary Statement and Factual Allegations of the Amended Complaint, Plaintiff alleges Defendant stole a hard drive and hacked into a telephone. See Am. Compl. ¶¶ 1-38. The allegations regarding these devices are not included in the CFAA claim in the Amended Complaint, see Am. Compl. ¶¶ 44-51; the telephone is mentioned only once in paragraph 52, in what appears to be legacy language from the Complaint, see Compl. ¶ 48.
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whether an access to a computer "exceeds authorized access" or is "without authorization", it is imperative to know the identity of the specific computer allegedly accessed, when it occurred, and how it occurred to determine what rights (if any) the person had to access the computer in general. The Complaint does not identify any specific computer associated with the alleged access of e-mail or online banking accounts.
The Amended Complaint only makes a conclusory allegation of accessing an “email account” and “bank account” or “online bank account” without any further information, most of which is made on information and belief, which is of no value for this motion to dismiss. See discussion, supra, Section I.D.2. It is impossible to know whether those accounts of the information therefrom was stored or backed up locally on a computer Defendant was authorized to access. For example, had Defendant previously had the right to access the accounts or had the information from the email or bank accounts been backed up and stored on his own computer, there would be no violation under any theory of the CFAA.
D. Plaintiff Refuses To—But Must—Plead That The Information In Hoffman’s Book Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled The World Is True To State A Claim For Publicity Given to Private Life (Count II).
Pennsylvania recognizes the tort invasion of privacy for publicity given to private life as set forth in the RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D. See Boring v. Google Inc., 362 Fed. Appx. 273, 280 (3d Cir. 2010) (citations omitted). The § 652D Publicity Given to Private Life jurisprudence has developed over decades. One of its essential requirements is that the matter published must be true—and the plaintiff must allege that it is true in the complaint. “[T]o state a claim for public disclosure of private facts because an essential element of that tort is that the facts at issue be true.” Leidholdt v. L.F.P. Inc, 860 F.2d 890, 895 (9th Cir. 1988) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 652D); Culver by Culver v. Port Allegany Reporter Argus, 409 Pa. Super. 401, 404, 598 A.2d 54, 56 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991). Plaintiff, however, alleges the
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“book contained defamatory and untrue information about Kate Gosselin, along with information that painted Kate in a false and negative light.” Am. Compl. ¶ 36. Plaintiff affirmatively disproves her claim.
E. The Complaint Fails To Adequately Plead Several Requirements Of The Civil Conspiracy Claim (Count VI) and Concerted Tortious Action Claim (Count VII).
Under Pennsylvania law, civil conspiracy and concerted tortious activity are participatory claims. Unless there is a finding that the underlying tort has occurred, there can be no claim for civil conspiracy, Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013), or concerted tortious action, State Farm Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. Ficchi, 2011 WL 2313203, at *13 (E.D. Pa. June 13, 2011). As discussed previously, the Complaint does not adequately plead an independent wrong or tort that will support a claim for conspiracy or concerted tortious action. Counts VI and VII should be dismissed.
Under Pennsylvania law, an essential element of a conspiracy claim is the proof of malice which “[r]equires that the sole purpose of the conspiracy was to injure the plaintiff and that this intent to injure be without justification.” Eagle v. Morgan, 2013 WL 943350, at *11 (E.D. Pa. Mar. 12, 2013). This element is conclusively negated where the Amended Complaint shows another purpose for the alleged activities. Id. The Amended Complaint affirmatively alleges that Defendant Robert Hoffman is a reporter, Am. Compl. ¶ 26, that the information allegedly giving rise to these claims was published in several publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 29, that Hoffman and Gosselin were paid for this information by various publications, Am. Compl. ¶ 38, the information was used by Defendant Hoffman to publish and promote the sales of a book, id., and finally and most importantly, alleges that the Defendants did these things “for the purpose of profiting from the book and the tabloid publications,” id. Plaintiff’s own pleading affirmatively disproves her conspiracy claim.
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF PAGE 25 MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS
Document 11-1
Filed 10/22/13 Page 26 of 26
Dated: October 22, 2013
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma
Shawn E. Tuma BrittonTuma
7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220 Plano, Texas 75024

d. 469.635.1335
f. 972.767.3181
e. stuma@brittontuma.com

Richard L. Orwig (Associate Counsel) Orwig Law Offices
2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
West Lawn, PA 19609

p. 610.898.9880
f. 610.898.1323
e. rlorwig@orwiglaw.com

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
page26image6952
The undersigned hereby certifies that a true and correct copy of the foregoing document has been served via personal hand delivery upon all counsel of record in the above-styled civil action on October 22, 2013, at the Court’s Status Conference.
/s/ Shawn E. Tuma Shawn E. Tuma
page26image10120
DEFENDANT JONATHAN K. GOSSELIN’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO DISMISS FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT
PAGE 26 


Robert's motion:

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 1 of 2
                  UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
KATE GOSSELIN :
: CIVIL ACTION

v. : :
page1image3080
JONATHAN GOSSELIN,
: No. 13-4989
: ROBERT HOFFMAN, : : and JOHN AND JANE DOES 1-20 : :
        ROBERT HOFFMAN’S MOTION TO DISMISS THE COMPLAINT
          Defendant Robert Hoffman moves to dismiss the
complaint for all the reasons contained in defendant Jonathan
Gosselin’s motion to dismiss the complaint.  Mr. Hoffman joins
in Mr. Gosselin’s motion, which is fully applicable to Mr.
Hoffman.
page1image8072 page1image8232
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ James P. Golden______________
James P. Golden
I.D. Nos. 32169
HAMBURG & GOLDEN, P.C.
1601 Market Street, Suite 3310
Philadelphia, PA  19103-1443
(215) 255-8590
goldenjp@hamburg-golden.com
page1image10936
Dated:  October 23, 2013

Case 5:13-cv-04989-JLS Document 12 Filed 10/23/13 Page 2 of 2
                     CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
          I, James P. Golden, certify that the foregoing
motion/joinder has been filed electronically and is now
available for viewing and downloading from the Court’s
Electronic Case Filing System and that the motion/joinder has
been served on October 23, 2013, by email and regular mail.
               A. Jordan Rushie, Esquire
               Mulvihill & Rushie LLC
               The Fishtown Lawyer
               2424 E. York Street, Suite 316
               Philadelphia, PA 19125
               Jordan@FishtownLaw.com
               Marc J. Randazza, Esquire
               Randazza Legal Group
               3625 S. Town Center Drive
               Las Vegas, NV  89135
               mjr@randazza.com
               Attorneys for Plaintiff
               Kate Gosselin
               Shawn E. Tuma, Esquire
               BrittonTuma
               7161 Bishop Road, Suite 220
               Plano, Texas 75024
               stuma@brittontuma.com
               Richard L. Orwig, Esquire
               Orwig Law Offices
               2213 Quarry Dr., Suite B001
               West Lawn, PA 19609
               rlorwig@orwiglaw.com
               Attorneys for defendant
               Jonathan K. Gosselin
page2image10608
/s/ James P. Golden
JAMES P. GOLDEN
page2image11560
Dated:  October 23, 2013

1201 sediments (sic) from readers:

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Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I think it's ridiculous to say what would be enough, JAIL, or at one point I believe you suggested tar and feathering ex nurse.

HUH? I think people have been very clear what they want. For the kids to have a normal healthy mother and be given a normal healthy childhood and for her to never exploit them again. This is NOT unreasonable, ridiculous, or too much to ask. EVERY child deserves such a thing from their mother. It is FAR from jail or tar and feathering so honestly, that is really outrageous to accuse people of.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Exactly, Ex Nurse at 189. Even if the criminals in our case were never brought to justice, we would've said no to that expose.

&&&

That decision was right for your family. Other families have permitted such things and that was right for them. For instance, Baby Jessica's parents fully supported the movie about what happened to her. Her story had inspired many people and they wanted the money for her future (which as we know from talking to Chip, is well secured.) That decision was right for them in that moment at that time. It does not make them bad people, or exploitive, and that was not a bad decision. There isn't a perfect answer that fits all situations.

beenthere, donethat said...

One of the things that angers me the most about the whole filming of the Gosselin 8 is the fact that TLC and other production companies knew of the abuse of the children, and were complicit to it. They were in it for the money, and didn't care about the well-being of the children. I don't suppose any production company ever does. But here TLC truly took advantage of the lack of oversight and protection of children in the reality tv industry. And they covered up TFW's abuse over and over and over again. They're the ones who promoted HER, and threw Jon under the bus when he wouldn't play along any more. If it hadn't been for their money and power and influence and protection, TFW would not have gotten away with so much of her abuse and exploitation. With TFW as their mother, the children would have suffered psychological damage anyway, but probably not to the extent that they have, because other family members, such as Jon and Jody and Kevin would have had more influence and power in their everyday lives, and TFW could not have kept so much control.. But not when TFW has a big corporation with money and lawyers that protects their moneymakers and profit margins.

That's the story I would like to see told, whether in book or movie format. It's not to get TFW - it's to show the exploitation and abuse of toddlers and very young children that was facilitated by money, power and greed. And that we were all witness to, and maybe complicit in, by association.

Tucker's Mom said...

I don't see Kate being in any danger of going to jail or losing custody. All the things that her sycophants want to happen to Jon, I don't want to happen to her.
Kate has been selling lies and using her children all of their lives. I think people ought to know the truth.

Kylie said...

Ex nurse, to answer your question, all of the above. I have never known or heard of a worse "mother" , ever. She deserves everything that comes her way. As for the kids, they have LIVED this nightmare their entire life. A movie is not going to destroy them. What I wonder is why are some of you so willing to let her walk again. She has won everything in the past, humiliated her husband, family, kids and run roughshod over every person she comes in contact with. She is so utterly toxic! Control freak with no equal.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Punishing her punishes the kids--just as suing Jon, punishes the children.
*******
This is the mentality that has enabled Kate all these years.

&&&

AGREE! How many church ladies thought well some things just aren't right about this but gosh I hate to hurt those kids if I say anything.

How many people who knew them directly thought well gosh I would hate to upset the kids if I said anything.

Why would this "hurt" the kids??? Well, because child abuse/exploitation is SHAMEFUL. It always has been shameful and it will continue to be shameful, and this is a bad thing.

It is commendable to not want to hurt the children and it's human nature. But until we get past this and understand that such things should not be treated as shameful, abuse will continue. Penn State. The number one reason that continued the way that did was because of the SHAME of child abuse. If there were no shame in it, no one should have had any problem getting to the bottom of things right there and then. 59 million dollars later.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Tucker yes. I have been one who has always said the children should have both Kate and Jon in their lives. I never once said I wanted Kate stripped of custody. I wanted them to share the kids because in my experience kids with both parents in their lives, no matter how terrible they may be, almost always do better. And you can always help the inferior parent learn to be better while they are still with their kids. Nothing prevents that.

Movie? said...

Just my two cents, but I don't understand arguing about whether or not there should be a movie. We can have differerent opinions and that's ok. In addition, our opinions don't make a difference as to whether or not the movie gets made.

PatK said...

I'm beginning to think the sheeple are trying to keep the subject of a possible tv movie away from Kate's timeline, lest she read about it. (And I'm sure she has all the haters blocked who do mention it.) I haven't seen one tweet from a fan/sheep about it. lol

NJGal51 said...

@MiloandJack: @XXXXXXXX @Kateplusmy8 Congrats 2 single father of 4! Cooking recipes fr #LoveIsInTheMix Looks like a winner! :) pic.twitter.com/kYvNrI64EF

God bless the guy for trying but my eggplant parmesan never looked like that! Silimom - is that how it's pictured in the book? If yes, no wonder the kids didn't want to eat it!

Tucker's Mom said...

Movie? said... 10
Just my two cents, but I don't understand arguing about whether or not there should be a movie. We can have differerent opinions and that's ok.
*****
I don't see any arguing. It's a topic being debated and as always, it's with respect and great intelligence.
I appreciate hearing both sides as I'm still on the fence about it.

Anonymous said...

I watched the clip that Susan provided (thank you) and cllcked on a few more in the sidebar. What has always struck me is her indifference to her children. She will walk through a door and just keep going. She doesn't hold it open for them, she doesn't look back to see if they are following, she does nothing! My mother was a lot like her in many ways, but she at least had us go through the door first to make sure we all made it through and followed behind us, where she could keep an eye on us. I cringed once when she walked through their pool gate and it almost slammed on the kid's face behind her. Didn't want to look for it, but saw this on the sidebar to Susan's clip and she does it there too. She is just so......indifferent.......and I am trying to be kind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y5rmBDtZfQ
FRP

njay said...

What would be enough to satisfy the hate that people feel for her?
--------
Ex Nurse, great comment. With all due respect though, you leave me perplexed. You have never left us guessing about how you feel about Jon and his part in this. You have asked what would it take. Does she have to lose her house? Do the kids have to lose their private school community? Does she have to be put in jail? Lose custody? Lose parental rights? Much of this Jon has already experienced and yet you still come across as one who loath's him.

I could be completely wrong and my choice of the word loath may be to harsh a word for your intentions. My apologies if my assumptions of you are as such.

I think it is a scary place to be when I take joy or even part of others who are receiving their recompense for THEIR bad choices. If I am not careful and my involvement in any way, even just reading, comes from a place of hate or revenge then I bring to myself my own reaping, Or as some would say...karma.

thuvia said...

Just wanted to comment on adm. statement about helping the inferior parent learn to be better. In the case of Kate and other NPD parents, especially mothers, THEY WILL NEVER CHANGE. When she is taking her last breath,she will be blaming everyone else for all the unhappiness in her life.
The only way to survive a narcissist is to get away and never go back. The Gosselin kids cannot get entirely away, and one can only hope the support they get from their father with sustain them until they can make a independent choice.
What is said on this blog is a wonderful example of concerned persons all with different ideas but all with loving concern for the kids. But whatever justified intervention is meted out to Kate her venom, egoism, spite and nastiness will continue unabated, even if we never talk of her again and her name is never published. Believe a survivor of three generations of narcissists, they never change.



















little speck of dust said...

I just wanted to say how much it bothers me when someone brings up the fact that Robert's book was not very well written. I am very educated , yet I had no problems at all making out the things he was saying. So he did not write like an experienced author, or a great master of the English language, but he told the story of what those children went through, and how abusive that woman was to them and their father. Please, it just feels to me like you are picking on him. Like Admin. said-shooting the messenger. Enough already!

A nurse who despises evil "mothers" said...

Ex Nurse said... 189

Just out of curiosity' for those that are pro-movie: Exactly what would be enough of a punishment for TFW? Does she have to lose her house? Do the kids have to lose their private school community? Does she have to be put in jail? Lose custody? Lose parental rights? Be perp-walked into prison on national TV?

##########

We'll, that's a good start, as unlikely as it is that any of these things will actually happen. Frankly, there is nothing too terrible that could happen to this disgusting POS. She's an evil, selfish woman who "masterminded" the birth of sextuplets solely for fame and money. She then proceeded to treat them as mere objects, her personal property, to be exploited in any way she possibly could. Further, she viciously abused them both physically and emotionally. In my opinion, a woman that creates children for these reasons and treats them this way is beyond evil. So, no, there's absolutely nothing that I think would ever be too bad for her. She deserves every terrible thing that could ever come her way.

Bitchy Pants said...

Ex Nurse -- I don't hate TFMJG. I pity her. She will never know true joy or contentment. She's just incapable of those emotions. That said, what would satisfy me is for her to lose complete control of the children. They deserve no less. I don't mean that she should be cut out of their lives. She is their mother, for whatever that is worth, but I do not believe that she should have the right to make decisions for them, to control their money in any way, or to use them as she has for the past 9 years or so. Beyond that, I want the world to be aware of what went on right under everyone's noses. I want them to KNOW just what has been perpetrated upon these children by an unscrupulous TV network and a cold, uncaring parent. I want safeguards in place that will prevent this from ever happening to another child. I want controls that will require oversight and protection for ALL children, whether on Reality TV or elite sports participants or performers, with really stringent requirements and oversights and PENALTIES for violators. Yes, I know that there are some of these regulations already in place, but they aren't strictly enforced and don't go far enough in protecting the children. I want a world where children are free to grow up without fearing abuse, exposure, humiliation, embarrassment from the ones who are supposed to be protecting them. Unrealistic -- maybe, but to quote a very wise man -- "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one".

AuntieAnn said...

It can get frustrating sometimes when everyone and your mother are blamed and not them.

====

Yes, exactly. They put them out there. Not Robert, not you, not me nor anyone else. Not even TLC. She could have walked away long ago as Jon did. So much for her being the protective mommy worried about their safety.



JoyinVirginia said...

OT: No spoilers but a couple DWTS items of interest. There were two group dances tonight, and the second dance will be a viral video by tomorrow. If you look at the episode the group dance starts about one hour forty minutes in. second item, exciting news for next week, the guest judge will be Cher!

Call Me Crazy said...

Ex Nurse - Good questions, all. You have made me think about what I would want to see happen to Kate. Here is what I want:

I want her to get therapy so she may be able to become a decent parent and person.

I want her to learn that her children deserve her love and respect without conditions.

I want her to appreciate that she was blessed with 8 healthy children and that, thanks to them, she is able to put food on the table and a roof over their heads.

I want her to no longer terrorize, interrogate, try and convict her children for inconsequential things (such as globes and gum).

I want her to throw away the spoon.

I want her to be held accountable for all the trauma she has heaped upon her family (immediate and extended) and friends.

I want her to stop ridiculing and complaining about her children and instead encourage them and lift them up.

I want her to stop using her children as a way to earn a living.

I want her to stop the constant lying.

I want her to stop beating up on Jon, and understand that she is hurting the children by constantly going after him.

I want her to put her children's needs above her own.

I want her to treat Shoka with love.

I want her to learn kindness.

I want her to learn and feel gratitude.

I want her to "see" other people.

I want her to find out there are consequences for lying and for defrauding others.

I want her to get a job that will reward and fulfill her and help her be a less hateful person.

I want her to ask her Twitter followers to stop saying terrible things about the father of her children.

I want her to feel the joy of a child's arms around her neck.

I want her to allow family back in her children's lives.

I want her to learn that sometimes "no" does, in fact, mean "no."

I don't know if a movie would do harm or do no harm to the children. But if RH's book or a movie can be the catalyst that causes her to seek therapy and change, and thus create a better, calmer, more loving life for her children, and for her, then I am all for it.

Call Me Crazy said...

Bitchy Pants - I hear you loud and clear. And you are most definitely NOT the only dreamer!

Sherry Baby said...

She is sick and delusional, and, she is also the mother of 8 innocent children.

_____________
And as such, she should have custody of those kids, raising them in an environment dominated by what you call a "sick and delusional" woman who makes all decisions for them, including legal ones?

AuntieAnn said...

I don't care what anyone says about you Ex Nurse, you'd be hellishly good on jury duty. I like your comments and how they always provoke a good debate.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

No, the #1 reason is that they knew their football program would be destroyed and the money would stop rolling in.

&&&

Well yes, but they feared this because child abuse is shameful. It still all goes back to the shame. If it weren't shameful, no one would have a fear anything would be "destroyed" or money lost. The irony is it was the long lead time that destroyed the program. But one man, the perp, would have been destroyed and nothing would have happened to the program had no one had any shame to address it immediately upon discovery. Shame prevented those involved from seeing this truth.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


What is said on this blog is a wonderful example of concerned persons all with different ideas but all with loving concern for the kids. But whatever justified intervention is meted out to Kate her venom, egoism, spite and nastiness will continue unabated, even if we never talk of her again and her name is never published. Believe a survivor of three generations of narcissists, they never change.

&&&

That's what victims keep explaining, which is why I completely understand why people are saying Kate won't decide to stop herself so it does no good to take a step back. She must BE stopped. It is others around her who must stop and enough exposure and being shut down by the court of law once and for all could do that.

Ex Nurse said...

Admin said...
That decision was right for your family. Other families have permitted such things and that was right for them. For instance, Baby Jessica's parents fully supported the movie about what happened to her.
_____________
Yes, and which parent is it that is giving their full support to this?

NJGal51 said...

Joy - They were "foxing awesome"!

Ex Nurse said...

Admin said...
She must BE stopped. It is others around her who must stop and enough exposure and being shut down by the court of law once and for all could do that.
_________
But, that is the lawsuit, not the movie right? If that think proceeds, she will likely be shredded to pieces. She brought the suit, whatever happens is her own doing.

Several people have said that the harm has already been done. As if there is a limit to how much harm and pain a child can experience.

Pam--I appreciate your honest answer that nothing will satisfy you. I feel the same way. I understand that it isn't about hate. It is about the greed, grifting, lying and unfairness of it all and exploitation of children. She is a dispicable person. I am just offering my opinion about a television project--I agree with 95% of what other people have said.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


@MiloandJack: @XXXXXXXX @Kateplusmy8 Congrats 2 single father of 4! Cooking recipes fr #LoveIsInTheMix Looks like a winner! :) pic.twitter.com/kYvNrI64EF

&&&

Bless him. At least he wasn't stingy on the sauce or breading and they do look like they're just about perfectly brown. Not bad and eggplant ain't easy. I hope Kate finds it in her busy schedule to at least gives him a "good job Dad."

What's funny is I think this is really who this cookbook should be more geared for. Single dads who are going into the kitchen for the first time, first-time apartment renters in their early 20's, people seeking to graduate from a bowl of cereal or mac and cheese and actually use their oven. Other than this group I don't see this cookbook being of true much use to anyone else.

starz22 said...

I think a tell all movie would be great.I think the kids would be ok with it. Maybe people would stop enabling TFW seeing how much it has hurt the kids. The kids have lived this, this is nothing new to them. Hell maybe a movie will help end their suffering. for people to see TFW in her true colors. It should be easy to show TFW in her true colors.
When the media runs dry for her she might just release the reins and let them go with Jon. I see nothing wrong with calling a pos out. Karma needs to bite her in the ass soon. The movie would bring an end to the he said she said. Her own words with be her end. Now thats karma.

Ex Nurse said...

njay--
I absolutely don't loathe Jon. I think that he made a whole of stupid decisions in a very short period of time, and made of mess of his own life and reputation. I also think that he has made a lot of changes since then, and I sincerely hope that the lawsuit resolves in his favor. The continuing focus on this horrible period if their family can, as Paul Petersen said, retraumatize the kids. Repeated trauma will arrest their development and delay healing and integration of what they have lived through.

Jon is in the best position to know if the kids are still being abused, and the kids are old enough to report it. Any teacher is a mandated reporter of suspected child abuse, and every complaint must be followed up. We don't know whether CPS has intervened or not. At least they have a safe haven at Jon's house--that is more than many kids have. The pendulum is definitely swinging in Jon's favor now. If this lawsuit shreds Kate, the way it appears it will, it will be more ammunition for him to take to a judge. The twins must be old enough to make the decision where their primary home is. The tups too, possibly. While we are on the subject of celebrity lawyers, I always wondered whether Gloria Allred would become involved when the kids are over 18.

Karma will always win out, but sometimes it takes time, and it may come in a different way than we would like. Having cut her own parents out of their lives, I would imagine that some, most, or maybe even all will do the same to her. Kids learn by watching what parents do--not what they say.

From what the locals say, she is already shunned in her community. When her kids leave, she will be left in her mansion, like Nora Desmond, waiting for her close up. Nothing good will come to her--I can practically guarantee it.

I don't have anything else to say about it...I get that people dont agree, and that is fine with me.

Alberta Girl said...

Appropriate punishment for TFW? Humiliation. Just as she has done to her children all these years, and for her to feel it just as deeply.

There is one moment that has always stuck in mind all this time. It was when she took the kids to New York in that awful heat, when NO parent would be traipsing children out for hours on that day.

She ran in her hooker heels to get ice cream, then shoved it at her children to eat. One of the twins said something about wanting a different flavour. And that stupid Biatch turned to the camera and said that her child was a liar. Anyone who wants to see it can go to you tube and look.

Just writing about it angers me to no end still.

Vanessa said...

. The number one reason that continued the way that did was because of the SHAME of child abuse
**************************************************************************

Not only shame on the victim's part but warped sick sense of loyalty to the abuser. Talk about being f@%$#d up as an adult?? Yes, this has to be blown right out of the water to try and change the path that "some" of those kids will most definitely follow. And be a lesson to OTHERS. Privacy privacy privacy-lame and defenseless reason to NOT have the abuser get their due.

Vanessa said...

Children do not make anyone immune to the law and they're not a free pass for a grifter and liar.
********************************************************************

Excellent point!

Katykat said...

If you look at the bigger picture, w/ an offer of a TV movie that means someone besides us and the Sheeple has read this book. Someone in Hollywood. We all know Hollywood is a very small, gossipy town. Her television career is through. Time to go fill out that McDonald's application.

Vanessa said...

What is the potential harm of MAKING the movie? According to Paul Petersen, a retriggering of their original trauma and pain. IMO, further isolation from their community, shame, embarrassment and the humiliation of having their private lives on display to anyone with cable television.
*****************************************************************************

I genuinely think that Peterson's comment is being taken out of context. He made it concerning the show. I would like to hear his opinion on exposing this TRAVESTY to the world?
Isolation from their community? Shame and embarrassment? Wow, you sure aren't giving people much credit. Locals? Will you shame and embarrass those kids? Will you "isolate" them? Would anyone YOU know personally do this?? I'm betting it will be the OPPOSITE. It IS the opposite. The isolation, shame and embarrassment those kids deal with comes SOLELY from their mother.

Vanessa said...

What, exactly, has Kate gotten away with?
****************************************************

Ummm? EVERYTHING?


There is no reason on earth to make the decision for the kids--there will be time enough for them to tell their own stories, if they choose.
****************************************************************************
But this isn't just THEIR story. It's fraud. It's deception. It's theft. It's a father losing his parental rights. It's children losing their rights. It's a woman who became wealthy based on deception, cruelty and abuse. If it happened ONCE, it can happen again. This is the reason it has to come out and be KEPT out there in the open. To learn, to teach and prevent!

Vanessa said...

Unfortunately, that is not the case here. But, they do have one, and the protection of his children, really falls under Jon's job description, not RH's or some production company. If Paul Petersen was on this project, I would view it very differently. From the little that we know, it appears that it is the entertainment industry, making a movie for the purpose of making a profit--not to free the prisoners from Alcatraz.
************************************************************************************

BUT the entertainment industry played an integral part in making them "prisoners".

Yes, they have Jon. But what good did that do them?? So nobody else should get involved? I guess just let the family deal with it, right?? Just leave it to them to solve on their own, "privately", when from their VERY BIRTH this was shoved down the public's throat. The public was invited in to watch, gawk, cough up $$$, fund their lifestyle, but NOW just leave it them do deal with privately? By all means, let this happen again. Let an industry get away with partnering up with a child abuser. Let a corporation back a mother's right to beat her kids. Let a corporation fund a mother's campaign to destroy her children's father and all but annihilate him. Let a corporation get boatload stinking rich and along with THEIR MOTHER exploit, overwork, expose, abuse, deprive and humiliate children.
And the protection doesn't solely fall on Jon. Tell that to CPS, teachers, neigbors, relatives, doctors, police....

Betsy said...

Alberta Girl said:

"She ran in her hooker heels to get ice cream, then shoved it at her children to eat. One of the twins said something about wanting a different flavour. And that stupid Biatch turned to the camera and said that her child was a liar. Anyone who wants to see it can go to you tube and look.

Just writing about it angers me to no end still."

This episode did it for me, too. Another moment that shocked me from the NYC shoot was when Cara did not want to pose for a group photo. TFW turned to her and said, "You will be in the picture or I'll leave you with people you don't know!" I will never forget the cruelty of that comment. Ever.

Marie said...

Karma will always win out, but sometimes it takes time, and it may come in a different way than we would like. Having cut her own parents out of their lives, I would imagine that some, most, or maybe even all will do the same to her. Kids learn by watching what parents do--not what they say.

*************************8

There are plenty of people who do terrible things and never have to face the connsequences for their actions. There is no such thing as karma. Karma is just a reaction to an action. The action was the abuse of the Gosselin children and the reaction was Robert reporting it. Without people like Robert, people like TFW would never have to be confronted with the terrible things they do.

Marie

Vanessa said...

And that stupid Biatch turned to the camera and said that her child was a liar.
************************************************************************

And there you have it. The kid's TRUTH has be put out there. This isn't some unknown family living their dysfunctional lives in the middle of small town America. They are all public figures and tfw has had a constant platform to say whatever the f@#$# she wants-calling her own daughter a liar for the world to hear! Meanwhile she is the BIGGEST liar of all! Nobody to refute it, nobody to question it. They're being "gaslighted" by not only their own mother, but by the public. The hate sites that were devoted to one of the twins? Basically they were agreeing with their mother? right? They need the perception the "public" has of them to be corrected and all their "wrongs" (expulsion, bullying, "brattiness") explained-TO the public.

TLC stinks said...

I want to see the kids get counseling. I want Kate to be psychologically evaluated. And I want Jon to have more custody rights. If that is the end result of a movie and the book, I would be overjoyed.

I am sick and tired of Kate Gosselin getting away with her lies and psychologically tormenting those children. It takes courage to battle such a monster and I applaud Robert and Jon for not rolling over.

Kate is the one who put Robert in the position of having to consider a movie deal. The woman wants to bankrupt him for heaven's sake! If she makes an example of him, this will INTIMIDATE anyone else from coming forward publicly.


Vanessa said...

It's ok for tfw to make them out to be little hellions-Katie Couric?
She's allowed to portray them as brats etc. and we're all supposed to
"oh dear, yes how DOES she do it?" Katie tsk tsking along with her.
It's never "poor kids!" It's always POOR tfw. How will THAT affect the kids when they see she was always given a free pass, basically JUSTIFIED in their treatment?

localyocul said...

Anonymous said... 14
I watched the clip that Susan provided (thank you) and cllcked on a few more in the sidebar. What has always struck me is her indifference to her children. She will walk through a door and just keep going. She doesn't hold it open for them, she doesn't look back to see if they are following, she does nothing! My mother was a lot like her in many ways, but she at least had us go through the door first to make sure we all made it through and followed behind us, where she could keep an eye on us. I cringed once when she walked through their pool gate and it almost slammed on the kid's face behind her. Didn't want to look for it, but saw this on the sidebar to Susan's clip and she does it there too. She is just so......indifferent.......and I am trying to be kind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y5rmBDtZfQ
FRP

((((((((((((((

What's she going to say when the girls, who are now teenagers, come downstairs dressed to go somewhere in short shorts, hooker heels, and low-cut blouses?

TLC stinks said...

I think CPS can identify physical abuse and act on that, but what about MENTAL abuse? That's the real issue.

TLC stinks said...

Why do the kids have to wait until they are18 years old to tell their story and break free? This is allowing, under the pretext of privacy for them, 18 years of mental and physical abuse. So it's ok because MAYBE karma will bite Kate and MAYBE the kids will be cope as adults?

localyocul said...

TFW is twitter silent! Doesn't that mean she's Workin' hard on some project! Good things a-comin'! Or is it because she's scrambling to get her attorneys to respond to the MTD and find out about this alleged movie offer?

localyocul said...

I would love someone to tweet that laundry tension clip to Milo and ask her to point out examples of TFWs mothering. She would say, for one, she's doing laundry for 8!! kids!! (it's obvious they were filmed throwing the laundry in, then the "help" did the rest while they shopped.) Then she would claim editing. How does she explain TFW's self-centeredness? The other two adults wanted to find a kid store. This clip is a prime example of what TFW is talking about when she said she didn't appreciate what she had. She even says in the clip she bought something "on sale". BS! The money was rolling in and she thought it would never stop. She bought whatever pretty little thing caught her greedy eye.

TLC stinks said...

Kevin and Jodi have been silent for years. They put themselves out there, and then crickets. You know what I think? I think they were threatened legally. I mean, that is Kate's M.O. Same with all those workers and film crew. Kate made darn sure everyone signed confidentiality agreements so she could sue if they opened their mouths. I think some got through anonymously to tabloids, but Kate has ruled with an iron fist that no one will talk. It has nothing to do with privacy, it's about keeping secrets.

Tucker's Mom said...

The NYC episode angered me too.
It was 103 degrees out and on the East coast, that's stifling and very, very dangerous.
Kate said it was so hot, she was nauseous but the kids felt nothing. Sure.
The children were exhuasted from the long day of filming in the heat, yet Kate wouldn't let them pass out on the bus because they'd wake up that night unable to sleep. Which of course meant that the kids would oversleep in the morning, and Mommy's got an episode all planned out, so she slapped them to wake them up.
Yes, shoving ice cream in her little boys chest was hard to watch. Kate seemed absolutely manic that episode.
I remember looking at her on the second day of filming, and she looked like something the cat dragged in. Her hair was a rat's nest and her get up was amazingly slutty.
And those ridiculous gladiator sandals that seemed to be surgically attached to her feet were a childish choice.
The running, screeching and constant need to pull a HUGE ASS bus over to the side of the road so Kate could buy crap was a real head scratcher.
Again, something was very off with Kate that entire episode.

JoyinVirginia said...

NJ gal, I dvr DWTS, and I watched the foxing awesome group dance about four times last night, could not stop laughing.
I want Tom Bergeron and Tony Dovolani to tell the real backstage story of TFMJG. only as a matter of curiosity. Why did the makeup and hairstyles and costumes look just not right?

URL said...

TFW's behavior and viewers who have been raised in similar situations or were married or in relationships with narcissistic partners or spouses for years. Narcissists are so manipulative that they can turn reality upside down. I believe it is even more difficult and will take years, if ever, for her children to realize what they have grown up with. Even for an adult, this type of person can turn your world upside down and you question what was real (if anything) during the relationship or marriage and that can continue years later with parental alienation (even though you are the primary parent). I can't even imagine what these children will go through later in life. TFW is a chronic liar and something as simple as purchases during a grocery store trip seem exaggerated or fabricated. I don't think CPS would do anything in this situation. Her home is large, clean, the kids aren't neglected with their hygiene and are apparently well fed. It's the emotional damage that will affect them later.

JoyinVirginia said...

OT: only seven days until Virginia elects a new governor and all the campaign commercials and robo calls will stop! Reason to celebrate!

localyocul said...

Oh, i see she's back on Twitter. I was sound asleep by the time she was tweeting about screaming at pictures of baby dolphins.

chefsummer #Leh said...

I refuse to go away"The Kate Gosselin Story"

KK played by Courtney Stodden or Kim Zolciak
Jon played by Lee Byung-hun
Rat Claws played by Sam Neill

Vanessa said...

It has nothing to do with privacy, it's about keeping secrets.
********************************************************************

agree!

Vanessa said...

If she makes an example of him, this will INTIMIDATE anyone else from coming forward publicly.
**************************************************************************
Exactly! And it's come to this stage BECAUSE she's pushed Robert/Jon into a corner. They fought the only way they could in this unique and damn right scary scenario. SHE orchestrated the whole thing. Hoffman's initial intentions were, I believe to give a voice to those kids and to Jon. NOW? He's fighting for his life, be it his reputation or his financial life.
__________________________________________________

There are plenty of people who do terrible things and never have to face the connsequences for their actions. There is no such thing as karma. Karma is just a reaction to an action. The action was the abuse of the Gosselin children and the reaction was Robert reporting it. Without people like Robert, people like TFW would never have to be confronted with the terrible things they do.

Marie

*****************************************************************

Well said.

URL said...

No Courtney Stodden please! She's only 18 and a made for tv movie raising 8 children with her perverted old husband would be more for the porn industry. That's just gag worthy. Their entire relationship makes me gag. That whole relationship is disgusting, IMO. Leave any children out of that fiasco.

Serendipity said...

I think a tell all movie would be great.I think the kids would be ok with it.

&&&&&&&&

How could anyone know what the kids would be okay with? On what is this based? We don't know the kids, what their reaction would be, or how they would be affected.

"When the media runs dry for her she might just release the reins and let them go with Jon. I see nothing wrong with calling a pos out. Karma needs to bite her in the ass soon. The movie would bring an end to the he said she said. Her own words with be her end. Now thats karma."

&&&&&&

This could possibly be true with a "normal" person, but this is a narcissist here...the "never doesn't mean never" person. Karma doesn't come to all people. They just dig their heels in, continue on the same path, and ignore all consequences of their actions.

chefsummer #Leh said...

URL said... 60

LOL that's why I also said Kim Z from the real house wives of ATL.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

If Paul Petersen believed that abuse and exploitation should never be recounted on T.V., he wouldn't have gone to televised congressional hearings to testify. Anyone with a modem could watch those hearings live. I did. They also made the news. I have never heard him say that dramatization of a terrible event or events is always bad for children.

With all due respect Paul Petersen is not a psychologist and I never saw him claiming to be. He is an expert on child labor laws, the industry and child stars in that industry. He is no more qualified to talk about the affects of a T.V. movie on a child's actual psyche than any other layman here offering their sound and reasoned opinions.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Children do not make anyone immune to the law and they're not a free pass for a grifter and liar.

&&

And yet time and time and time again, over and over, they are allowed to be used as just that. Every time anyone says this or that shouldn't be done because of the kids, no matter how good the intentions are behind it, they are allowing her to USE those children as her sword and shield. I am guilty of it too. She has hidden behind these kids for years and we KNOW she thinks she can just continue to hide behind them so she can continue to lie, exploit, grift and use. Even in her own briefs what's the first thing she says? She is a SINGLE mom of EIGHT kids two sets of multiples. If that's not whipping those kids out as her shield from the get-go I don't know what is. There was no reason to even mention the kids, aside from one teeny tiny part of the story where they provided some information to Jon, which she never acknowledges, the kids are NOT the story here. Her single status and how many kids she has is completely irrelevant to her ridiculous and delusional hacking claims. In fact she could have no kids and be married to three men and it wouldn't affect a single darn contention in her brief. The brief stands on its own without the kids, but she had to invoke them at every turn.

OrangeCrusher1 said...

A tell all commercial movie would be disastrous. Most of them are hardly worth watching, and those of you who want Kate 'exposed' by one really think there is a production company out there that would do this? All this would do, even if she is portrayed truthfully, will give her more publicity, another People cover, more media exposure. And really, 'the kids would be ok with this'? You know this how? I think any more talk about their family is just awful for them. TV movie? Commercials on tv, TV Guide, talk about it at school? They deserve privacy way more than their mother needs what so many of you think will be a karmic spanking. She needs no more attention at all.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Vanessa said... 38
What is the potential harm of MAKING the movie? According to Paul Petersen, a retriggering of their original trauma and pain. IMO, further isolation from their community, shame, embarrassment and the humiliation of having their private lives on display to anyone with cable television.
*****************************************************************************

I genuinely think that Peterson's comment is being taken out of context. He made it concerning the show. I would like to hear his opinion on exposing this TRAVESTY to the world?
Isolation from their community? Shame and embarrassment? Wow, you sure aren't giving people much credit. Locals? Will you shame and embarrass those kids? Will you "isolate" them? Would anyone YOU know personally do this?? I'm betting it will be the OPPOSITE. It IS the opposite. The isolation, shame and embarrassment those kids deal with comes SOLELY from their mother.
______________________

Has anyone answered the first part of this question, what is the potential harm in NOT making the movie?

Vanessa said...

Exactly what Paul Petersen said--the continued experience of being forced to relive past traumas later, is additional trauma.
************************************************************************

Going with Admin's post about Peterson being a child advocate and NOT a psychologist- this quote is the EXACT opposite of what any therapist would encourage. Having had therapy myself, one of the steps is to "relive" the trauma, expose yourself to it again. YOU take control of it. To recover from anything you have to relive it, talk about it, give it a voice. To have that mother, and have every single person who has tried and tried to get them out of her clutches lose? To only hear HER perspective. To be brainwashed by her? This is what the fight has come to. It's on a grand scale and it needs to be resolved on a grand scale.

Vanessa said...

Has anyone answered the first part of this question, what is the potential harm in NOT making the movie?
****************************************************************************
I don't think there will be any harm done in NOT making the movie, but it sure is a story that should be told.

Vanessa said...

Has anyone answered the first part of this question, what is the potential harm in NOT making the movie?
***************************************************************************

JR said...

What happens when her children are older and she can't hide behind them anymore? How does a person like her react when all that control is gone? What will she use as a "It's all about me and look at all I do" weapon.

IMO..the next big court battle is when one or more of the kids want to live with their father. I don't think she will tolerate that kind of betrayal. She might even cut off some of her children next. Theres no doubt in my mind that will happen. I hope Jon has his lawyer on speed dial...

URL said...

I don't think any made for tv movie will have a real impact one way or other regarding the treatment and what TFW has put her children through for years. If a tv movie is made, it will be saturated down to protect the network from future lawsuits. I personally would rather see the book republished with added details regarding her abuse and the reality of what her children lived with and are still dealing with as an emotionally and/or physically abusive mother.

Tucker's Mom said...

She has hidden behind these kids for years and we KNOW she thinks she can just continue to hide behind them so she can continue to lie, exploit, grift and use.
******
You look at these TV hosts and want to scream "what is the matter with you?". There's no follow up, no calling a spade a spade. The pablum that Kate serves up has got to make them want to choke.
She can't go back to nursing? Really?
She puts her kids back on TV (CWS) without a word to Jon? Really?
Kate hasn't had a boob job? Really?
The children weren't expelled? Really?
She has bills in her purse that she can't send? Really?

OK, Kate, whatever you say. Just say whatever self-serving thing you want, and no one objects or questions. Your head will literally explode if you don't get your kids back on TV? Oh, makes total sense.

Vanessa said...

All this would do, even if she is portrayed truthfully, will give her more publicity, another People cover, more media exposure. And really, 'the kids would be ok with this'? You know this how? I think any more talk about their family is just awful for them. TV movie? Commercials on tv, TV Guide, talk about it at school? They deserve privacy way more than their mother needs what so many of you think will be a karmic spanking. She needs no more attention at all.
****************************************************************************

I'm coming at this from my own childhood perspective. I have mentioned before that my own mother is a raging narcissist. Thinking back to when I was a kid and everyone thought my mother was the cat's meow, sooo nice, soooo friendly. I remember the stress, anger and anxiety I felt thinking "yeah if you only knew". To keep those secrets, to keep up that façade, to never be sure of how to feel from one given moment to the next-those friends would leave and you'd think "ok now, she's in a GOOD mood" just to have her lunatic self go into some random episode?
So if back then I KNEW that someone BELIEVED ME, someone was trying to get her to OWN HERSELF, to stop her badmouthing us, to yes,"get her" I would have been grateful, I would have felt that someone SEES this, that I'M not crazy or responsible

Paper Plates Forever! Yay! said...

Marie said... 42
I have a different take on this. Karma doesn't have to be an action. Karma can take different forms. For example, maybe Kate is actually so incredibly unhappy and lonely inside that it is painful to get up every morning. Maybe she hates her life and fights her insecurity demons every day and feels like a square peg in a round hole when she looks at others around her. To me, that is karma. I wouldn't want to be unhappy every day of my life.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

OrangeCrusher said... 65
And really, 'the kids would be ok with this'? You know this how? I think any more talk about their family is just awful for them. TV movie? Commercials on tv, TV Guide, talk about it at school? They deserve privacy way more than their mother needs what so many of you think will be a karmic spanking. She needs no more attention at all.
_______________

That's the impression I'm getting-some want to see Kate get a "karmic spanking" Love that description, btw.

What upset me the most is seeing it said that the kids have already experienced being humiliated. Does that mean they're so toughened up by it that a TV movie about their family will have no effect on them? That's harsh.

Vanessa said...

She needs no more attention at all.
*****************************************************************
But I don't think this is "attention". It's exposing crimes. It's exposing extortion. It's exposing abuse. It's not proving whether she had her boobs done or not, whether she's had lipo or not. Why do you think she farts those rainbows when she does? Lame attempt at deflecting the truth. There is no way she is wanting and craving "attention" from all of this.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I guess I would say the potential harm in not making the movie is that the cold hard lessons in this story might not reach some people. Let's face it, not everyone sits down and watches documentaries, reads A Minor Consideration's web site and keeps themselves informed of all the news and grave concerns in the child labor laws world. But lots of people will watch a movie of the week and lots of people understand issues better after it is explained in that form. Even if it reaches just one parent who then thinks twice about putting their child out there to the public.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Vanessa said... 67
Going with Admin's post about Peterson being a child advocate and NOT a psychologist- this quote is the EXACT opposite of what any therapist would encourage. Having had therapy myself, one of the steps is to "relive" the trauma, expose yourself to it again. YOU take control of it. To recover from anything you have to relive it, talk about it, give it a voice. To have that mother, and have every single person who has tried and tried to get them out of her clutches lose? To only hear HER perspective. To be brainwashed by her? This is what the fight has come to. It's on a grand scale and it needs to be resolved on a grand scale.
_________________

You seriously think a psychologist would say a made for TV movie is the way deal with psychological problems?

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I do have to say that I was a kid when I first saw the movie about the Dionnes. I don't think I understood what exploitation even was. I just thought wow movie about 5 multiples that sounds interesting definitely watching that one. If I recall it was heavily advertised and shown like a miniseries over a few nights.

That movie disturbed me greatly and I've been interested in their story ever since. I think that may have been the first time I understood the concept of exploitation at all, now that I think about it. Some parts really stuck with me forever, including that glass wall they were behind, and especially the part where a kind nurse saw that they were being exploited and tried so hard to convince the doctors it was harmful. She was then fired. I have no idea if such a movie about the G's could be so powerful, but that movie certainly was for me.

Ex Nurse said...

Vanessa said...
Having had therapy myself, one of the steps is to "relive" the trauma, expose yourself to it again. YOU take control of it. To recover from anything you have to relive it, talk about it, give it a voice.
------------
How is a tv movie equal to taking control of the trauma? As you said, you learned this in therapy, not from watching your life story on television. TV movie does not equal therapy. And, having your life story on a movie does not equal taking control. It is the exact opposite of having control. Someone else has the rights to the story.

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

So now the making of a TV movie about Kate would be a public service?

I watched this topic devolve yesterday into what we have now; it will be a service to humanity to educate them on the evils of exploiting children... on TV for public consumption, in the hopes that maybe one family can be saved.

Man, I've never felt sorrier for those kids than I do today.

Ex Nurse said...

Auntie Ann\--If I was on your jury, I would let you get away with murder!

URL said...

I guess the making of a made for TV movie would also depend on the network. Many cable network movies get low viewer ratings. TFW would probably get more hits on You tube. Even if this movie is made, I doubt it will be a rating hit. And why doesn't TLC pick this up? I still can't even imagine who would want to portray her. She's such a beast.

TLC stinks said...

The potentional harm in not making a movie is that Kate will continue getting a pass from the entertainment and news outlets. And it will be the status quo for the kids living with a narcissistic mother who refuses treatment.

Sheri said...

Wow, this sure is some debate.

I'm finding all the points very interesting and enlightening. I'm also appreciating that no one is getting haughty or defensive.

I second whoever said that this is the reason this is such a great blog.

I stand by my original opinion that I think a dramatic made for T.V. movie is going too far but I truly respect the differing opinions.

It would be nice to think that Mr. Hoffman's book by itself and Kate losing the lawsuit would be enough to stop her but like others have said and in my own experience, narcissists don't change.

Being incapable of true introspection and empathy a narcissist can not be humiliated or shamed because they truly believe they are fine and doing nothing wrong.

My mother has lost everything. She is estranged from all three of her children, has 5 grandchildren she hasn't seen in 15 years, two of them she's never even met. She is also estranged from 6 of her 7 siblings and has absolutely no one in her life except 1 sister.

Despite this, she insists that it's absolutely everyone else around her that has the problem. She just can not see that her own behaviour has led to virtually her entire immediate family having nothing to do with her.

I held out hope that she could/would change but with every year that passes it becomes ever clearer that this is not going to happen.

If a movie would be the catalyst for Kate, then great, I just don't see it happening. I see it simply as another reason for Kate to dig in her heels and insist that she's a victim of jealous bullies and that will not help the children.

For the record, I totally see Ex-Nurse's point about a difference between secrecy and privacy.

No one against a movie is suggesting secrecy and sweeping anything under rugs, at least as far as I can tell anyway. If that were true, I doubt any of us would be here in the first place.

Anyway, as always, just my opinion and I won't be saying anything else on the subject. Though I will continue to read with great interest.

chefsummer #Leh said...

by one really think there is a production company out there that would do this? All this would do, even if she is portrayed truthfully,
_____

LMN would probably that did Jodi Arias Drew Peterson Casey Anthony Anna Nicole so why not K.G?

But they would change some deatils I think so she wouldn't get $$'s,

Susan said...

From a 2009 article
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/jon-and-kate-gosselin/

"In one episode, the family is being photographed for the cover of Good Housekeeping. On an oppressive 93-degree day, the photo’s being taken outside, and because it’s for the November issue, everyone’s in heavy sweaters. Then the photographer’s strobe breaks. When Kate reviews the shots afterward, she’s heartbroken about how forlorn the twins look. Things aren’t any better the next day at the studio shoot. Twin Mady is grumpy, and Leah won’t raise her head up. The GH crew tries to coax smiles. “I’m always looking for ways to, like, make it fun for them,” Kate breezily tells the camera later. It’s episodes like these that have slowly roused some critics and viewers out of the Jon and Kate coma of undying adoration to ask an uncomfortable question: When do your kids stop being your kids and start becoming your meal ticket?"

OrangeCrusher1 said...

I am certainly not advocating sweeping anything under a rug, but I also see no point in a TV movie about Kate Gosselin and her horrible mothering. I have no faith that this would be anything but low budget, and poorly made. And so I see no point in bringing her, or anything about her, to the public arena. This court case is real, and could have more appropriate deep consequences for her future, as could a rerelease of the tell all book. Did the TLC experience about the realist reality not make anyone else lose faith in how a story is told? So no, I see no point in a TV movie. And now I am also done with this speculative topic.

Millicent said...

Sheri said:

My mother has lost everything. She is estranged from all three of her children, has 5 grandchildren she hasn't seen in 15 years, two of them she's never even met. She is also estranged from 6 of her 7 siblings and has absolutely no one in her life except 1 sister.

Despite this, she insists that it's absolutely everyone else around her that has the problem. She just can not see that her own behaviour has led to virtually her entire immediate family having nothing to do with her.
***************************
It's people like you who share their own real life experiences with a family member who is a narcissist like TFW, that have helped me understand that TFW will never change. Maybe if she was struck by lightning and it rewired her brain somehow, but in the normal course of things, she perceives a different reality than the rest of the world. Thus, in her version, she is doing nothing wrong, and it's others who simply don't understand, can't help her in the right way, or are just jealous of her.

I'm sorry you had to grow up with a narcisstic mother - I am sure it was extremely difficult and painful at times.

Millicent said...

Movie? said... 10

Just my two cents, but I don't understand arguing about whether or not there should be a movie. We can have differerent opinions and that's ok. In addition, our opinions don't make a difference as to whether or not the movie gets made.
*****
Exactly. There's no need for us here to argue about this particular issue, because we have absolutely no say-so as to whether this even materializes or not.

Anyone remember the Betty Broderick story? She was probably a narcissistic personality, and when her husband divorced her, she became completely unhinged. She ended up killing him and his new girlfriend. She portrayed herself as a victim, although I believe she was very comfortably set with spousal support, child support, nice home. But she absolutely could not stand that her husband was no longer under her control.

They did make a tv movie (and I'm sure more than one book) about her story. I don't think it devastated her children.

The one difference is that I never heard that Betty Broderick was abusive to her children, although I'm sure they had stress and trauma merely by living with her histrionic personality.

Dream A Little Dream said...

Ex Nurse (33): "I don't have anything else to say about it...I get that people dont agree, and that is fine with me. "

Ex Nurse (80): "How is a tv movie equal to taking control of the trauma? As you said, you learned this in therapy, not from watching your life story on television. TV movie does not equal therapy. And, having your life story on a movie does not equal taking control. It is the exact opposite of having control. Someone else has the rights to the story. "

Berks Neighbor said...

So many people keep thinking this movie will be centered on TFW. We don't know that. My previous suggestion would be from Robert and his wife's point of view. Another suggestion and thought is that this can be focused on TLC and explicably, Eileen, and the blatant exploitation of families within the realm of reality TV. There are many ways that this MFTV movie could be portrayed. We are giving TFW too much credit for thinking the movie would solely be about her. When the chapter on Reality TV is finally written, TFW will merely be a foot-note. However, the exploitation and manipulation of children for entertainment can and will still be out there for discussion.
This movie and this story can be told without conflict when it comes to personalizing individual children's experiences. It has to be done correctly for expanding knowledge of the tricks of the trade and can be entertaining as well (and I don't mean 'Laurel and Hardy' entertaining...).

Dmasy said...

I believe there have been some very good made-for-TV-movies about real life tragedies. The first one that comes to mind is the 2-part Betty Broderick story. (A Woman Scorned). About 5 years elapsed between the actual murder and they TV telling.

The collapse of that family involved children who have been interviewed as adults. Oprah had a program with some of them. The 4 children are divided on their feelings about Betty.

They are children who survived dysfunctional parents, the high profile nasty divorce and custody case, and ultimately the murder of their father and stepmother.

Betty Broderick seems to be another raging narcissist. At her parole (2012) hearing she still refused to take responsibility for her actions.

I have watched that TV movie several times. I have read the books written about the Broderick family.

I never considered what effect those public versions might have had on the Broderick children. (My mistake...my lack of awareness.)

Some stories just get told because they are "larger than life". There will be innocents who suffer. There will be positive effects. There will be truth and distortions.

No one -- including Kate -- can dictate how the Gosselin story will go down in media history.

Vanessa said...

How is a tv movie equal to taking control of the trauma? As you said, you learned this in therapy, not from watching your life story on television. TV movie does not equal therapy. And, having your life story on a movie does not equal taking control. It is the exact opposite of having control. Someone else has the rights to the story.
***********************************************************************
Exactly what Paul Petersen said--the continued experience of being forced to relive past traumas later, is additional trauma.
*******************************************************************************

I was responding to what Peterson was quoted as saying and used to defend the argument that the movie will be reliving past trauma, causing more trauma. Their real story will be put out there FOR them. IMHO it won't further traumatize them. It will bring their abuse to the forefront and validate their trauma. I did say earlier upthread that I'm still kind of on the fence as far as the movie. If it's portrayed true to the facts, the REAL facts, then it serves a purpose.
But I guess I have a vengeful side and I'm saying if MY mother had been exposed back then? I would have been pleased.

Dmasy said...

Millicent, I think we were typing at the same time.

I think your posts are spot on. So, I am going to claim the "great minds think alike" defense!

Vanessa said...

You seriously think a psychologist would say a made for TV movie is the way deal with psychological problems?
*************************************************************************
I'm not saying the movie will be the therapy! I again was responding to the fact that Peterson's quote was used to defend the stance of "trauma" and to not relive it. The movie will no way in hell traumatize those kids. NO WAY. That's been done to death. I feel it will bring MORE people onto their side and maybe they will have peoples' eyes opened to WHO their mother really is! That's all

Vanessa said...

Yes, I'm going to drop this discussion too:)
Great debating though

Dmasy said...

Susan, thank you for your enlightening comments.

There are many reasons why I stay with this blog. Posts like yours would be one of them.

FYI said...

I have read all the comments re the movie, both pro and con.

I don't think a movie would have any effect in bringing Kate down or exposing the truth. For one thing, even movies based on real life persona, tend to use a lot of dramatic license which make people doubt the "facts" shown in the movie.

How many movies have been produced about real events and real people that are later shown to have exaggerated details or changed some facts? "Lincoln" is one of the movies that comes to mind.

Movies leave it up to the watcher to decide what is the truth behind the tale. Even if the movie was totally based on the book, there would still be people who question it. The show was on TV for years and there are still people who are not shocked by what they saw. Their life has already been played out on TV with the show, the interviews, other appearances. I don't think a television movie will change anything nor validate what the children have been put through.

With that being said, I do think the book should be rereleased, especially if it is proven in court that what was in the emails and the journals, is the truth. The written word proven as fact can be a more powerful tool in getting the word out there about who the real Kate Gosselin is.

Having it in writing, shown to be true, would be more validation for the children of what they went through than any made for TV movie would ever be.

Katykat said...

Did anyone see The View today w/ Corey Feldman? He was talking about how many pedophiles are in Hollywood, how powerful they are, and how they don't want his story to get out. Then Barbara Walters had the nerve to try to stop him and accuse him of give the industry a bad name.
I say bring on the movie, get the whole sordid ugliness out there of how the TV world will cover up abuse of children in the name of the almighty dollar.

Sheri said...

Millicent said... 89

Sheri said:

My mother has lost everything. She is estranged from all three of her children, has 5 grandchildren she hasn't seen in 15 years, two of them she's never even met. She is also estranged from 6 of her 7 siblings and has absolutely no one in her life except 1 sister.

Despite this, she insists that it's absolutely everyone else around her that has the problem. She just can not see that her own behaviour has led to virtually her entire immediate family having nothing to do with her.
***************************
It's people like you who share their own real life experiences with a family member who is a narcissist like TFW, that have helped me understand that TFW will never change. Maybe if she was struck by lightning and it rewired her brain somehow, but in the normal course of things, she perceives a different reality than the rest of the world. Thus, in her version, she is doing nothing wrong, and it's others who simply don't understand, can't help her in the right way, or are just jealous of her.

I'm sorry you had to grow up with a narcisstic mother - I am sure it was extremely difficult and painful at times.

*********************************

Thank you Millicent, your sentiment is appreciated. Honestly, the absolute hardest part, the thing that wrenched my heart the most was the day I finally realized it was her and not me.

I was in my early twenties and it was like a brick falling on my head. I had spent my whole life believing there was something wrong with me. That I was somehow unlovable and deserving of her abuse.

Ridiculous I know but that's how children cope...it's the only way to survive. It was like a double whammy to finally acknowledge that I didn't deserve to be treated that way and that I had continued to abuse myself even after I left home at 15. I had a seriously negative inner dialogue that nearly destroyed me.

It took 2 years of intense psychotherapy and a Saint of a husband to help me work through all the damage. I'm still a bit neurotic with some leftover OCD issues but I'm in a much, much better place now.

I'm happy to share my story if it helps people understand just how much damage a narcissist can inflict and it's why my heart goes out to those kids.

I see so much of my mother in Kate that it strikes the fear of God into me for those children. If she was willing to display that kind of abuse in front of a crew and cameras, what the hell goes on behind closed doors?

Makes me shudder.

Tucker's Mom said...

If a movie would be the catalyst for Kate, then great, I just don't see it happening. I see it simply as another reason for Kate to dig in her heels and insist that she's a victim of jealous bullies and that will not help the children.
*******
I'm with you here.
Let's face it, a movie will embellish and use some degree of artistic license and that's all it will take for Kate and her machine to discredit it entirely.
I support Robert's book because much of it is clear and according to him, undeniable (and I tend to believe that he's got lots and lots of goods to back it up). Also, Robert's reporting was quite detailed, he interviewed hundred of people directly or closely involved and he was THERE, right there for some of the events which were disturbing.
His first hand accounts should be weighed heavily when it comes to the content and veracity of his book.
I'd like to see the book recognized and I'd like to see Robert promote it like any author does any book (if they have the connections and interest).
The smoke and mirrors need to be blown away and shattered so Kate's truth to be seen by the people who need to the most-- the people that she's hurt, lied to, lied about, used, shunned, tossed aside, stole from, conned and intimidated/bullied.
The only thing that has come remotely close is the Vanity Fair article.

Dmasy said...

Sheri, thank you for being brave enough to tell us part of your story.

I think that to one degree or another many of us here saw "something" in Kate that made us shudder. A brick of realization fell on many of our heads in adult life. I think that is why we care about the Gosselin 8.

Bless you for getting to a better place in life. You deserve it.

NJGal51 said...

The best karma is for TFW to be completely ignored. What she craves most in life is the attention. It kills her that she is no longer walking the red carpet or getting the attention she used to get. She thinks she's a star and will do anything to be back in the spotlight. To TFW even bad publicity is still publicity and might get her on another talk show to tell her side of the story. Ignore her, have all the "gators" drop off her twitter timeline and let her be left with her die hard fans and her twitterbots. Karma at her finest.

BTW, I'd never seen the NY episode so I took a look. I don't know how she can deny a boob job when she's in that black halter. There is much side boobage shown and no good bra in sight.

Susan said...

Dmasy said... 98
Susan, thank you for your enlightening comments.

I read this blog every day for the enligtenin comments myself.
I have a few more "saved" articles that I can post later today. Odd how so many had her number many years ago. It's money and greed that has kept her in the limllight, but the jig is up now for real.

I will be buying Roberts book again.

localyocul said...

Bullyville ‏@BullyVille 27 Oct
A quick shout-out to @ANONYMOUSE_CAT, although we don't always agree on things, I respect their willingness to at least be civil.

AnonyMouse Cat ‏@ANONYMOUSE_CAT 27 Oct
@BullyVille Why? So you can have my IP. I'd love to discuss w/you but I don't feel safe.

Bullyville ‏@BullyVille 27 Oct
@ANONYMOUSE_CAT Have your IP? Obviously you know how IP trackers work, you would need to click on a link.....I won't send you a link.

AnonyMouse Cat ‏@ANONYMOUSE_CAT 27 Oct
@BullyVille You're right I don't. Following now so DM away.


RealZiggyFlo ‏@RealZiggyFlo 11h
@BullyVille @ANONYMOUSE_CAT Respect nothing re this one. One doesn't have to be crude to be vile. pic.twitter.com/eVkLNVvxxR

(Not sure what's vile about the linked tweet).

AnonyMouse Cat ‏@ANONYMOUSE_CAT 10h
@RealZiggyFlo and...yer too late. I've already made peace with James. @BullyVille

RealZiggyFlo ‏@RealZiggyFlo 8h
@ANONYMOUSE_CAT @BullyVille What choices James makes r his,what choices I make r mine.Ur peace with BV doesn't guarantee 2 b with everyone.
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AnonyMouse Cat
‏@ANONYMOUSE_CAT
@RealZiggyFlo @BullyVille I don't think the fans really want peace for Kate. JMO...

RealZiggyFlo ‏@RealZiggyFlo 7h
@ANONYMOUSE_CAT @BullyVille We want peace for Kate, we also want those responsible held accountable, not absolved without accountability.


That Ziggy is a rabid fan. She is one of the ones who got BV going with all this. I think BV is getting tired of them. When BV agreed to drop The Strawberry person from the "lawsuit", Ziggy tried to get it all stirred up again and he told her it was decided. Her, that truthteller person, and that Marie person:

MARIE ‏@MY_3BCOLLIES 27 Oct
@BullyVille #ANONYMOUSE_CAT I hope you don't mind if I respectfully and strongly disagree.

are on TFW's timeline mostly talking about the haters. Why not talk about the wonderful qualities that TFW has instead?

That Ziggy one seems to spend her whole day capturing screenshots

It's all so strange. I wonder if BV is finally seeing that these few fans are as big of a problem as the extreme haters.

White Organza said...

Sherry (85): "For the record, I totally see Ex-Nurse's point about a difference between secrecy and privacy."

Same here... If a man, -let's say a college teacher-, slips the rape drug to unsuspecting young women so he can film them while he rapes them, and more or less everyone on campus knows about it, the secrecy surrounding his actions is condemnable. That man has to be named, confronted and accused even if it might be traumatic to his victims. (That is often referred to as the "second rape" for the victims.) But I don't believe his victims would be helped in any way if a film were to be made about the events; a film made without their consent; a film using their real names and/or depicting the rapes. Therapy or not, I just cannot see it. That would be a "third rape" and, in this case, totally unncessary and unjustified.

Lalalalala said...

Katykat said... 100

Did anyone see The View today w/ Corey Feldman? He was talking about how many pedophiles are in Hollywood, how powerful they are, and how they don't want his story to get out. Then Barbara Walters had the nerve to try to stop him and accuse him of give the industry a bad name.
I say bring on the movie, get the whole sordid ugliness out there of how the TV world will cover up abuse of children in the name of the almighty dollar.

*******************

KatyKat, I saw the show and I am LIVID! How dare Barbara Walters say something like that! She's of the opinion that things like sexual abuse should be ignored and swept under the rug. I wish she would just retire already because she lost whatever she may have had a long time ago.

Comments like Barbara's are exactly why abuse should be brought out in the open. So many ignorant people in high places in this world. Sheesh!

Tucker's Mom said...

With that being said, I do think the book should be rereleased, especially if it is proven in court that what was in the emails and the journals, is the truth. The written word proven as fact can be a more powerful tool in getting the word out there about who the real Kate Gosselin is.

Having it in writing, shown to be true, would be more validation for the children of what they went through than any made for TV movie would ever be.
*******
I think we were writing at the same time! I agree that the book, being at the epicenter of this lawsuit, will be the most powerful modality in exposing Kate's lies.
Assuming that the book contains Kate's actual journal writings and that evidence not introduced in the first book does exist.
Kate can deny a movie until the cows come home. Her own words, photos and documentation? Not so much.

Tucker's Mom said...

Katykat said... 100
Did anyone see The View today w/ Corey Feldman? He was talking about how many pedophiles are in Hollywood, how powerful they are, and how they don't want his story to get out. Then Barbara Walters had the nerve to try to stop him and accuse him of give the industry a bad name.
*******
I did and ugh! Babs, 1997 called and it wants you to retire!
I thought Corey did a good job. Tough topic, but one he's been addressing for years now, so Babs was just so out of the loop.
Jenny M.'s lack of interviewing skills were apparent and she almost ran the interview off the rails. Came out way too strong and pounded on the issue of Corey's mom, but he managed to rein it back in and keep on message vs. 'bashing' his mom.
Babs said he was indicting an entire industry, but he wasn't. He was saying there were people, not ALL people, but people in the industry that are pedophiles, and I believe him.
Talk about a target-rich environment.

Sheri said...

Tucker's Mom - Thanks, it's just my opinion of course, but that is how I see it being played out.

Dmasy - Oh, sweet...thanks so much. Yes, I do deserve it. ;) And so does any child who is a survivor of abuse. It's heart breaking to me that there are so many that just don't make it or end up having a really hard time as adults. The emotional scars last so much longer than the bruises.

JoyinVirginia said...

Sherri, thanks for sharing your story. I tend to agree with your analysis. If TFMJG is truly a narcissist, nothing will change her. She may lose control then contact with her children, but like your mother, it will probably never be acknowledged as her responsibility.

Tucker's Mom said...

I'm happy to share my story if it helps people understand just how much damage a narcissist can inflict and it's why my heart goes out to those kids.

I see so much of my mother in Kate that it strikes the fear of God into me for those children. If she was willing to display that kind of abuse in front of a crew and cameras, what the hell goes on behind closed doors?

Makes me shudder.
*********
Thank you for sharing. I've learned so much from people involved with NPD.
Actually, it's helped me understand my relationship with a NPD guy I dated and why I was sucked in for so long, why I though I was losing my mind and why I somehow always felt inferior/not good enough.
Only when I truly moved on and stopped my participation in the insanity did it finally stop.
I can't even imagine the pain involved when the NPD person you love is a family member.

Sheri said...

Katykat said... 100

Did anyone see The View today w/ Corey Feldman? He was talking about how many pedophiles are in Hollywood, how powerful they are, and how they don't want his story to get out. Then Barbara Walters had the nerve to try to stop him and accuse him of give the industry a bad name.

********************************

I think it's long past time that Baba Wawa was put out to pasture. The woman is a fossil with no real sense of what's going on in the world.

SMH

And with that, this is my last comment of the day. Hubby left work early so we could go on a lunch date.

I'm loving the nearly empty nest phase...it rocks. :D

AuntieAnn said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 79

I do have to say that I was a kid when I first saw the movie about the Dionnes. I don't think I understood what exploitation even was. I just thought wow movie about 5 multiples that sounds interesting definitely watching that one. If I recall it was heavily advertised and shown like a miniseries over a few nights.

That movie disturbed me greatly and I've been interested in their story ever since. I think that may have been the first time I understood the concept of exploitation at all, now that I think about it.

====

Speaking of quints, remember the Fischer quints born in 1963 in Aberdeen SD? I remember driving past their farmhouse when I was young and on vacation with my parents in that area, as it was my father's birthplace as well. The farm was nothing spectacular and if no one told you, you'd never know that was their home.

The Fischers had five children before the quints were born and one more child a year after their birth. They raised eleven children without a reality show.

What's that you say, Kate? Impossible? Not really. This mom had 11, count em' ELEVEN kids to care for.

From The New York Times:

"Media coverage continued into the quintuplets’ early childhood. For Mrs. Fischer, being in the limelight proved more difficult than the pregnancy. Especially troubling, she told The American-News, were false reports that they were receiving large amounts of money in various publishing contracts. “They were so blown out of proportion,” she said. “If lots of money were involved, would I still be working my fool head off at age 70?”

By then she was working as a cook for a meals program for the elderly in Aberdeen."

Mrs. Fisher died Dec 14, 2012 at the age of 79.

AuntieAnn said...

Ex Nurse said... 82

Auntie Ann\--If I was on your jury, I would let you get away with murder!

====

Aw shucks thanks Ex. Now if I can just get the judge to let me pick my own jurors...

Vanessa said...

I did and ugh! Babs, 1997 called and it wants you to retire!
*********************************************************
So true. She is passed her prime as far her career: interviewer. It takes her forever to spit anything out and a lot of times it's so far off the wall, you sit there going wha?? Nothing wrong with bowing out when it's affecting the workplace, whatever it may be. We're all going to be at that stage at some point.

Anonymous said...

Katykat said... 37
If you look at the bigger picture, w/ an offer of a TV movie that means someone besides us and the Sheeple has read this book. Someone in Hollywood. We all know Hollywood is a very small, gossipy town. Her television career is through. Time to go fill out that McDonald's application.

*****************
If you believe this book would destroy Kate's career, then you know nothing whatsoever about "Hollywood." The bottom line is whether she can draw ratings which equals $. It's not about what type of person she is or isn't.

Anonymous said...

TLC stinks said... 48
Why do the kids have to wait until they are18 years old to tell their story and break free? This is allowing, under the pretext of privacy for them, 18 years of mental and physical abuse.

******************
A tell-all movie is not an opportunity for the children to tell THEIR story. I'm pretty sure that Robert didn't interview them. There is nothing to prevent the children from walking up to a teacher TODAY and reporting any abuse that is occurring. They are not being prevented from doing anything.

Rhymes with Witch said...

@ 118

What career?

Vanessa said...

Aw shucks thanks Ex. Now if I can just get the judge to let me pick my own jurors...
**********************************************************************8
You know, just when things get heated here Auntie Ann, you always throw something in here to relieve the tension! Love it! I have a friend like that and she's just got a way of lightening up any situation. Would love to have that skill :)

Unknown said...

Katykat said... 100
''Did anyone see The View today w/ Corey Feldman? He was talking about how many pedophiles are in Hollywood, how powerful they are, and how they don't want his story to get out. Then Barbara Walters had the nerve to try to stop him and accuse him of give the industry a bad name.
I say bring on the movie, get the whole sordid ugliness out there of how the TV world will cover up abuse of children in the name of the almighty dollar.''
~~~~~~~~~
Barbara Walters accusation that he is wrong for talking about what happened to him is the very core of what seems to happen when abuse is exposed.

The abused person is somehow at fault for the TELLING, and the persons who abused are pushed to the background, while attention is focused on why is the abused talking about what happened.

Hummm....reminds me of all the drama about Robert's book (and maybe movie) The TRUTH of what has happened to Jon's children seems to be lost for some, as they complain about Robert for daring to talk about what happened.

OrangeCrusher1 said...

Begging for a new post, the scrolling is killing me.

That and any twitter comments from TFW on Halloween 2013? Or is it ignorance is bliss in PA this week?

Unknown said...

I see that others are livid about Barbara Walters, and expressed their anger much better than I did.

Mel said...

You know, just when things get heated here Auntie Ann, you always throw something in here to relieve the tension! Love it! I have a friend like that and she's just got a way of lightening up any situation. Would love to have that skill :)
==================

That's one of TFW's self-described skills.....relieving a tense situation with her light-hearted humor.

What a nice coincidence that Auntie Ann should share such a lovely trait with TFW. lol

Jumping In said...

I did not watch any of the Kate Plus 8 episodes, but went over to YouTube to watch the New York episode this morning. There was not a single frame of that show where TFW did a genuinely selfless thing for any one of her children. Nothing. Every step she took was for the camera, every mindless comment was self-serving and hollow. She manages her children, but she does not care about them. She maneuvers and manipulates them in to believing she is doing everything to create memories for them, which of course has been her mantra for years.

Watching her parade around New York in that embarrassingly inappropriate outfit, dragging her kids for added attention, it was painfully obvious just how little she cares for anyone but herself. She just oozes with a sense of entitlement throughout.

I am still fuming that the entertainment industry gives her any attention whatsoever. She does not have an endearing quality, everything she does is to further her own agenda. That cookbook may well have been her last gasp, one can only hope. Katie Couric especially angered me, watching her cozy up with TFW while giving her a forum to use those children again was completely wrong and exploitive. She should be ashamed of herself for partaking in such a sham.






FYI said...

Remona Blue said... 124
I see that others are livid about Barbara Walters, and expressed their anger much better than I did.
-----------------------------------------

I have not seen the Corey Feldman interview yet. I'm waiting for ABC to put it online. I have, however, read the View message boards, and there are plenty of people who are not happy with Barbara's comment. It's just another case of someone blaming the whistleblower. You can read the message board comments here:

http://mb.abc.go.com/discussions/The_View/_/_/abc0000d5/1647.1

localyocul said...

Meh I spoke to soon. BV is on another rant.

localyocul said...

What is the movie about the Dionne's called? Is it available online anywhere?

AuntieAnn said...

Vanessa - it comes from sitting at the glitter and glue station all day. Those fumes, oy. Thanks Admin.

Seriously, as I see it, movie or no movie, book or no book, Kate has built a house of cards and there's a nor'easter in the forecast.

Anonymous said...

Love BV's latest tweet: Don't ever let someone intimidate you, if you're gonna go down, you better go down swinging......

Um...that still means you lose and are on the ground. Just sayin'....

Jbranck1980

FYI said...

That and any twitter comments from TFW on Halloween 2013? Or is it ignorance is bliss in PA this week?
---------------

No mention of Halloween, but she's all excited that she'll have an extra hour to sleep on Sunday.

Kate Gosselin ‏@Kateplusmy8 7h
This is BEST thing I've read all wk!🕑 RT @SandieBellz: Clocks go back one hour on November 2. An extra hour of sleep Sunday! @Kateplusmy8

And Sandie, technically, the clocks don't go back until Nov. 3.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Barbara Walters proves the point that there are still people out there who want to silence and blame whistleblowers and sweep child abuse under the rug. How timely.

Local yocul said...

I was watching a clip from Alaska episode someone tweeted . As she turns her nose up at the moose dog the child who handed it to her says "I didn't touch it with my hands". OMG she must really harp on that it's the same as pizzagate. That's another clip is love someone to tweet Milo and ask her to point out positivity, super mom behavior or determination

Ex Nurse said...

Admin said...
If Paul Petersen believed that abuse and exploitation should never be recounted on T.V., he wouldn't have gone to televised congressional hearings to testify. Anyone with a modem could watch those hearings live. I did. They also made the news. I have never heard him say that dramatization of a terrible event or events is always bad for children.
_______________
First of all, televised hearings to deal with child labor laws can hardly be put in the same category as a made for television movie. How many people do you think watched that, after searching online, as opposed to being broadcast on a cable show.

Reading the journals, in Kate's own words, gives a true glimpse into her mind. The reader can form their own opinion, combined with what we saw on television.

A scripted movie is going to cast a predetermined point of view. There is no guarantee that Jon won't be crucified, too. It is extremely naive to think that Robert can maintain creative control. He is an unknown tabloid journalist who happened to be in the right place at the right time. Unless there are multiple networks bidding against each other, he just doesn't have the leverage of an established author.

Katykat said...

When Corey Feldman talked about a picture w/ he, Corey Haim and 11 pedophiles surrounding them, it just made my heart break. NO one, not the parents, no one on the set, no one, did anything to protect them. Sickening. Interestingly enough, Corey said the one man that was a friend and NEVER touched him was Michael Jackson.

Ex Nurse said...

The BW comment brings up another point. How likely is it that a network is going to blow the whistle on abuses within the industry they are a part of? Isn't going to happen--the blame will be on the greedy parents who exploited their children that they couldn't support. If the movie is a serious look at reality television, that would be a different story. That would be a case of a greater good. That would be a case in which the risk of NOT making the movie could mean that future families will be exploited. My comments are based on a scenario in which there is a scripted story. By the time scriptwriters and focus groups are done with it, the movie may barely resemble the truth. And then, not only is the truth not out there, but the entire story has been twisted and turned for entertainment. If this was actually a feature length theater released movie, based on reality, I would think that there would be a higher probability that there would be a greater good.

For the life of me, I just can't figure out why people are saying that I am trying to suppress whistleblowers, or comparing it to completely different circumstances, including child rapists. I am capable of changing my opinion based on other facts. Televised hearings that address the exploitation of children by their parents and networks is a good thing. It is too bad that more people haven't seen it. Do you have a link?

rainbowsandunicorns said...

Aw shucks thanks Ex. Now if I can just get the judge to let me pick my own jurors...

----
----

I read to the end of the sentence and thought you were going to say "and pick my own nose."

rainbowsandunicorns said...

There is nothing to prevent the children from walking up to a teacher TODAY and reporting any abuse that is occurring. They are not being prevented from doing anything.

-----
-----

Yes there is, and her initials are KG.

capecodmama said...

Ex-Nurse...I don't always agree with you but I enjoy your thought provoking posts.

I don't know anyone who is a narcissist so TFW and the posters here have clued me in. That being said, I hope I never meet anyone who's a narcissist. I'll be running like the wind if I do. And to all of you who have lived through it, I hope you're in a better place now and you have found peace.

As far as the movie, we'll just have to wait and see. I think I would prefer it if RH re-releases the book and then gets on the talk show circuit. If a program like 60 Minutes or 20/20 does an interview, that would be even better.

Red Sox are one win away from winning the World Series. Love it!

Bitchy Pants said...

localyocal -- The movie about the Dionne quints is called "Million Dollar Babies". It's available on Youtube, and you can probably rent it from Netflix or possibly your library has the DVD. Beau Bridges plays Dr. Dafoe. Don't confuse it with the Hillary Swank/Clint Eastwood movie called "Million Dollar Baby".

rainbowsandunicorns said...

are on TFW's timeline mostly talking about the haters. Why not talk about the wonderful qualities that TFW has instead?

-----
-----

Because Kate and the kids are secondary in importance. It's a battleground playing field for the sheeple vs. haters. You have, what, about six regulars on each side? When the haters aren't hating, sheeple jump in and bait them into a fight, and vice versa. They feed off each other. It's so immature, but hey, if it floats their boat and keeps them amused...

As Auntie Ann once said...some of those fans are proud members of the Double Digit Club.

Millicent said...

Barbara Walters was once a good journalist and a ground-breaking female in the industry. Sadly, those years are long past and she is now one of the biggest shills for the entertainment industry. Thus, she purposely goes out of her way to shut up anyone who might reveal the truth or a negative side. Thus she pronounced years ago that Kate Gosselin was going to be a big stah!

We all saw how ill prepared she was when Jon Gosselin was recently on the view, and her very pointed question "do you support your kids?"

I no longer like nor respect Ms. Walters. What she once did is still note-worthy but sadly, she should have retired on her laurels some time ago rather than stick around too long, and now tarnish her reputation. Shameful indeed. I hope she retires soon, and it won't be soon enough for me.

Over In TFW's County said...

That and any twitter comments from TFW on Halloween 2013? Or is it ignorance is bliss in PA this week?

+++++++++++++++

When is Halloween this year? ;-)

Millicent said...

Marie said:
There are plenty of people who do terrible things and never have to face the connsequences for their actions. There is no such thing as karma. Karma is just a reaction to an action. The action was the abuse of the Gosselin children and the reaction was Robert reporting it. Without people like Robert, people like TFW would never have to be confronted with the terrible things they do.
*****
Well, you don't have to believe in karma, but many people (including myself) do. That's okay - different strokes for different folks.

localyocul said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmFPtEYMQQY

3:25 she SHOVES one of the boys

Ex Nurse said...

Barbara Walters accusation that he is wrong for talking about what happened to him is the very core of what seems to happen when abuse is exposed.

The abused person is somehow at fault for the TELLING, and the persons who abused are pushed to the background, while attention is focused on why is the abused talking about what happened.

Remona Blue said...
Hummm....reminds me of all the drama about Robert's book (and maybe movie) The TRUTH of what has happened to Jon's children seems to be lost for some, as they complain about Robert for daring to talk about what happened.
_______
Also, the big difference between CF and a movie is that it is the victim himself that has chosen to come forward. That is a very important distinction.

I was originally against the publication of the book, because Robert was, IMO, extremely creepy in his veiled biblical threats. However, TFW's vindictive lawsuit, motivated by hate and greed, has changed my mind. I haven't heard anyone say that the book shouldn't be republished on this thread. I think everyone has pretty much said that the book, with Kate"s own journals, should be released.

IIRC, his original tweets indicated that there was something she could have done to prevent the book. Anyone else remember that?

FYI said...

The View's episode for today is now available online. Here is the link to the episode. Corey's segment starts at approx. 27:00. The part with Barbara is at approx. 34:00.

http://watchabc.go.com/the-view/SH559080/VDKA0_7ovp202r/the-view-1029

BW looks like she didn't even care what he was saying until he brought up the part about pedophiles being everywhere in Hollywood. That's when she made her remark about he was damaging "an entire industry".

stop the abuse said...

Katykat said... 100
Did anyone see The View today w/ Corey Feldman? He was talking about how many pedophiles are in Hollywood, how powerful they are, and how they don't want his story to get out. Then Barbara Walters had the nerve to try to stop him and accuse him of give the industry a bad name.
I say bring on the movie, get the whole sordid ugliness out there of how the TV world will cover up abuse of children in the name of the almighty dollar
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I just finished reading "The Girl" by Samantha Geimer. She is the woman who was raped by Roman Polanski when she was 13.

The judge in this case had the original judge removed so he could preside over the case. He was obsessed with attention and limelight. He was ready and willing to release the Grand Jury findings, which would have identified Samantha. In 1977 there were no privacy laws for youths in regards to unsealing Grand Jury findings. In fact, there were more protections in place for juvenile offenders. He didn't care, he just wanted to keep it in the news. Samantha's attorney had to plead and beg to keep the findings sealed, pointing out that if youthful OFFENDERS have a legal right to privacy, youthful VICTIMS should be afforded the same. The judge relectantly agreed to keep the records sealed.

The family asked for a plea bargain to spare Samantha from testifying. The judge did not want this, he wanted the noteriety of a big trial. He consulted with several reporters before making any rulings, he wanted to know at all times what "the word on the street" was. This young lady was sodomized, but all the judge cared about was his image and how this case would reflect positively on his legacy. Sick.

FYI said...

Red Sox are one win away from winning the World Series. Love it!
----------------------------

capecodmama--that is the one statement made today that I thoroughly agree with!!

Go Red Sox!!!

FYI said...

The Daily Mail has a good recap of Corey's appearance on the View. It also has a clip of the part with Barbara.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2479128/Corey-Feldman-claims-molested-Hollywood-power-players.html

Kelly said...

I could not have put it better than you have Vanessa. Well done! The mold that is Kate Gosselin will continue to grow unless it's aired to the world. Be that book, movie, or documentary matters little. If she's not exposed, she will never quit and anyone who believes she would seek out help on her own has never known this type of Momster before. She's destroyed her own life but she does not have the right to destroy (further) eight more and needs to learn that it will not be tolerated anymore. Ah, it just really makes me sick and sad.

localyocul said...

Over In TFW's County said... 144
That and any twitter comments from TFW on Halloween 2013? Or is it ignorance is bliss in PA this week?

+++++++++++++++

When is Halloween this year? ;-)

(((

Snort

Rhymes with Witch said...

Vanessa - it comes from sitting at the glitter and glue station all
day. Those fumes, oy. Thanks Admin. 130

Auntie, I've been neglecting my duties as you assistant. My
apologies. I picked up more glue and glitter when I bought Halloween
candy

Red Sox are one win away from winning the World Series. Love it! 140

GO SOX!

Unknown said...

Ex Nurse said... 147
''I was originally against the publication of the book, because Robert was, IMO, extremely creepy in his veiled biblical threats.''
''However, TFW's vindictive lawsuit, motivated by hate and greed, has changed my mind''
''.....IIRC, his original tweets indicated that there was something she could have done to prevent the book. Anyone else remember that?''
~~~~~~~
I think you are recalling INCORRECTLY. I would have to see an actual quote that indicates what you are saying before I would accept your memory.

The biblical quotes were more in the vein of taunting I know what you did and when you read the biblical quotes, you will know what I'm talking about.

Many on this blog (including Admin) found the taunting 'creepy' and objected to what he was doing. On the other hand, many others (including me) thought they were great...very entertaining!

As for you not changing your mind about Robert till TFW's lawsuit, I don't even know how to respond. I think that for one time in my life, I'm speechless.

Windsong said...

Stacy ‏@azbaby24
@Kateplusmy8 #LOVEISINTHEMIX Batch cookies ?? Are you putting them in the lunchbox frozen so it is thawed by lunch or are you reheating??

===

Oh, reheating, of course. Kate gets up at 5 a.m. every morning just to reheat eight cookies to put into the kids' lunches! lol!!

FYI said...

Kate's timeline has become a war zone again. One of the haters tweeted the following to every celebrity that Kate follows:

"KATE GOSSELIN:HOW SHE FOOLED THE WORLD..A Made For TV Movie? An offer is on the table! Thank You! http://www.gosselinbook.com

That totally crosses the line, IMO, and is carrying things too far.

Anyway, Sherri Shepherd stupidly replied to the tweet and included Kate. She also thought the tweeter was the author of the book.

Sherri Shepherd ‏@SherriEShepherd 1h
@AlfredoCocozza you're writing a tell-all book about @Kateplusmy8 … personally I think you're spreading lies #notinterested #disgusting

Of course, that was the call to battle, with the fans thanking Sherri and the haters tweeting nasty things to and about her.

I just have to shake my head how some of the haters feel the need to bring other celebrities into a war that doesn't and shouldn't concern them.


Lalalalala said...

Kate is a twit said... 156

Kate's timeline has become a war zone again. One of the haters tweeted the following to every celebrity that Kate follows:

*********************

When will Kate figure out that she needs to shut her Twitter down, pronto?

Tweet-le De Tweet-le DUMB said...

Of course, that was the call to battle, with the fans thanking Sherri and the haters tweeting nasty things to and about her.

I just have to shake my head how some of the haters feel the need to bring other celebrities into a war that doesn't and shouldn't concern them.
__________

Yes, and it strengths the resolve of the particular celebrity being attacked at the time. It only helps Kate. I don't see why the haters can't see that.

localyocul said...

Kate is a twit said... 156
Kate's timeline has become a war zone again. One of the haters tweeted the following to every celebrity that Kate follows:

"KATE GOSSELIN:HOW SHE FOOLED THE WORLD..A Made For TV Movie? An offer is on the table! Thank You! http://www.gosselinbook.com

That totally crosses the line, IMO, and is carrying things too far.

Anyway, Sherri Shepherd stupidly replied to the tweet and included Kate. She also thought the tweeter was the author of the book.

Sherri Shepherd ‏@SherriEShepherd 1h
@AlfredoCocozza you're writing a tell-all book about @Kateplusmy8 … personally I think you're spreading lies #notinterested #disgusting

Of course, that was the call to battle, with the fans thanking Sherri and the haters tweeting nasty things to and about her.

I just have to shake my head how some of the haters feel the need to bring other celebrities into a war that doesn't and shouldn't concern them.

************

I've been watching that too. They are just going to drum up undeserved sympathy for TFW if they keep it up.

localyocul said...

Anyone who has access to the docket (Reader?)...anything new? Hearings scheduled to hear motions or anything?

Harvest Moon said...

local 157...I've been watching that too. They are just going to drum up undeserved sympathy for TFW if they keep it up.

---------------------------

They don't know when to quit. I thought they were just a bit smarter than that. Weren't some of them the ones who were "outed" by BV? Exactly what was accomplished by that, and the alleged subpoena that was served on the other blog? They are still on Twitter, still hating, and I don't understand what BV hoped to accomplished by outing them. Nothing changed, or did it?

Unknown said...

Kate is a twit said... 156
''Kate's timeline has become a war zone again...''
''Anyway, Sherri Shepherd stupidly replied to the tweet and included Kate. She also thought the tweeter was the author of the book.

''Sherri Shepherd ‏@SherriEShepherd 1h
@AlfredoCocozza you're writing a tell-all book about @Kateplusmy8 … personally I think you're spreading lies #notinterested #disgusting''
Of course, that was the call to battle, with the fans thanking Sherri and the haters tweeting nasty things to and about her.
I just have to shake my head how some of the haters feel the need to bring other celebrities into a war that doesn't and shouldn't concern them.''
~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with you that it was unnecessary to tweet celebrities about the possibility that Robert's book would be made into a movie. I also agree that it was stupid of Sherri to respond.

However...the ''nasty'' things about Sherri were things that she actually said. There was a clip of her saying that she'd ''had a lot of abortions''. There was also a c/p of her saying what she'd do to Jon for TFW....''burn the house and tear up a car''. Those weren't things that were made up about her. She said them. Once again, a silly celebrity runs her mouth and what she said comes back to slap her in the face.

That timeline is a toxic place. I can't imagine why TFW allows that to continue. Is she afraid to tell people to stop because that garbage is 98% of the comments on her twitter?

localyocul said...

No, nothing seems to have changed. In fact I guess they figure they've been outed so what's there to lose? They go to extremes that TFW can use to prove her point (which isn't actually a valid point).

Kay said...

The problem here as I see it is that Sherry thought the person that tweeted her was Robert or someone representing Robert. The tweeter has a picture of Robert as her avatar. The tweeter said some vile things to Sherry. If Roberts book or a movie deal is made Robert is going to look really bad if he wants to make the talk show circuit. Tweets like that hurt Robert.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

According to that article, ironically Sherry was the only one who wasn't giving Corey a hard time. I'm glad the public is giving Barbara backlash about this. I hope she apologizes on the show tomorrow, both to Corey and to any victims out there who are afraid to disclose their abuse because of people like her.

If Corey said his house was robbed or his parents took all his money no one would say now Corey I'm sure that's not true or you seem to be on some sort of witch hunt. But dare mention sexual abuse and all of a sudden people freak and shut down and refuse to believe it. I picture a bunch of men and women like Barbara who were part of the powers that be who were told early on about Sandusky, saying things like now I'm sure this isn't true come now. Some people just won't believe it and what's even worse seek to shame and suppress those speaking out. Victim number 1 said he was treated much the same way.

That's awfully interesting about Michael Jackson. I don't know what to make of that.

Let's throw tomatoes said...

Sherri Shepard who thinks the world is flat? Maybe she's defending Kate because she thinks Kate is her mother!

Kate + 9 #shedoesntknowthat

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I love too how Sherri immediately assumes the movie would be full of lies. How does she know that? Has she seen the script? Maybe it will be a very fair and accurate rendition of what happened, what does she know? She has a terrible habit of just spouting off about whatever without any context or basis or facts, and being a public figure with a forum, that's concerning.

FYI said...

Why shouldn't the book be the concern of other celebrities?
-------------------

I'm not saying that the book shouldn't be of concern to other celebrities. I'm saying that the twitter war shouldn't be a concern for other celebrities, that's should be Kate's concern.

What I think crossed the line, was that the original tweeter specifically targeted the celebs who Kate follows on twitter.

Harvest Moon said...

admin 163...She has a terrible habit of just spouting off about whatever without any context or basis or facts, and being a public figure with a forum, that's concerning.

--------

I've never understood how someone so dumb has remained on that talk show for so long, or that she's allowed to open her mouth at all.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

. Tweets like that hurt Robert.

&&&

How so? This will blow over in a few hours and no one will remember it. And if we can clearly see it's not Robert, I'm sure anyone else who knows the world is not flat can see it too. No one's going to say you can't go on my talk show because someone sent some tweets out. In fact several talk shows indicated they invited Robert and Jon on but they declined.

It always amazes me the people that tend to hang around on twitter. They're not all like this, but gosh so many of them are just so easily duped and confused by tweets. All you do is put some pic on your avatar and they think it's Jon, or Kate, or Robert, or the pope. I mean geez click on their name and see if they are an official account. If they're not, nine times out of ten it's NOT the real person. Duh. I had no idea it was that hard to understand. How is it any different than keeping up in a chat room?

Vanessa said...

Good God Sherri Shepherd also claimed ti believe the world is flat!

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

The other thing too is that while I realize the View is just a fluff show it is supposed to be a show that provides real and honest interviews with celebrities. It often misses the mark, BUT it is what they claim they are. So how is it appropriate for one of their interviewers to take up for a celeb who has been on their show many times? Where is the sense of being fair and balanced? They're all in bed together these days. In the old days "journalists" even entertainment journalists weren't "friends" with the celebs or would take up for them, even if you were quietly friends behind the scenes. There is supposed to be a distance between journalists and what you talk to the public about. It's a conflict of interest to develop all these friendships or to be taking sides like this. Why should I trust anything Sherri asks Kate now since I know they're so close Sherri will even take up for her on twitter? Sherri isn't the only one doing this but I don't know I just find it so ridiculous. What is the value in watching friends interview friends? There is no value at all.

Is there anyone left who would like their news delivered without the constant conflicts of interest? Even celeb news or "soft news".

lukebandit said...

NEW POST on Robert's Book Blog!!

Unknown said...

Kate is a twit said... 156
''Kate's timeline has become a war zone again...''
''Anyway, Sherri Shepherd stupidly replied to the tweet and included Kate. She also thought the tweeter was the author of the book.

Sherri Shepherd ‏@SherriEShepherd 1h
@AlfredoCocozza you're writing a tell-all book about @Kateplusmy8 … personally I think you're spreading lies #notinterested #disgusting
Of course, that was the call to battle, with the fans thanking Sherri and the haters tweeting nasty things to and about her.
I just have to shake my head how some of the haters feel the need to bring other celebrities into a war that doesn't and shouldn't concern them.''
~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with you that it was unnecessary to tweet celebrities about the possibility that Robert's book would be made into a movie. I also agree that it was stupid of Sherri to respond.
However...the ''nasty'' things about Sherri were things that she actually said. There was a clip of her saying that she'd ''had a lot of abortions''. There was also a c/p of her saying what she'd do to Jon for TFW....''burn the house and tear up a car''. Those weren't things that were made up about her. She said them. Once again, a silly celebrity runs her mouth and what she said comes back to slap her in the face.

That timeline is a toxic place. I can't imagine why TFW allows that to continue. Is she afraid to tell people to stop because that garbage is 98% of the comments on her twitter?

Lalalalala said...

New post up.

http://gosselinbook.blogspot.com/

localyocul said...

It always amazes me the people that tend to hang around on twitter. They're not all like this, but gosh so many of them are just so easily duped and confused by tweets.

)))))

Remember when someone thought the one hater was Jon because they used him as his avatar? LOL who was that? Said "don't take out your anger against your ex on me"? LOL

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

I love too how Sherri immediately assumes the movie would be full of lies. How does she know that? Has she seen the script?

==============

Never mind the movie. Sherri thinks that this tweeter is the author of a book that hasn't even been published and right away she says the "author" is spreading lies. Obviously she doesn't know what book it is and doesn't even think to ask. Has she ever heard of Robert's book?

This woman is as dumb as a bag of hair. I guess the sheeple in Kate's flock now have a shepherd.

Sherri Shepherd ‏@SherriEShepherd 2h
@AlfredoCocozza you're writing a tell-all book about @Kateplusmy8 … personally I think you're spreading lies #notinterested #disgusting

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

Fired Up 4 Kate ‏@MiloandJack 22m

@Kateplusmy8 LOL The Sky Jump N New Zealand comes 2mind....>> Our lil Kate taking a risk! pic.twitter.com/q53j3A7OlX

==============

How about your lil Kate being a royal biotch to the fellow in charge of the jump? That adventure was not something for which Kate should be proud. I'd think that your lil Kate would sooner forget that one, not be reminded about it.

localyocul said...

Fleecing The Sheeple said... 168
I love too how Sherri immediately assumes the movie would be full of lies. How does she know that? Has she seen the script?

(((((((

I know! That made me so mad I almost tweeted to her to do her research but I was not getting involved. What an idiot. She's probably never watched an episode.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Geez I can almost have more respect for the sheeple, at least some of them TRY to be a little more specific when it comes to how they feel about Kate. The book was all lies? Did Sherri READ IT? What exactly does she think is a lie in it? Please be specific. If I were her I wouldn't spout off such things lest SHE ends up getting sued for libel. If the book was the truth and she calls Robert a liar who's spreading lies, that's libel. And I doubt Robert could be classified as a public figure, so he wouldn't even need to prove actual malice. I'm surprised someone who has been in the business as long as Sherri has could be so careless and stupid.

FYI said...

Robert has a new post on gosselinbook.blogspot.com. It's about the effects of spanking children. He includes a quote from Kate's journal, and this time he shows what looks like the time/date stamp for the journal.

Anonymous said...

When the two Coreys had their short lived reality show, Corey Feldman made no mention of his son. Even pictures of his son were removed around the house. He said his son didn't sign up for this, his parents did. He wanted his child to have anonymity.

Lalalalala said...

Well, Sherri Shepard isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. The vast majority of The View viewers want her off the show because she has a big mouth with nothing to back it up.

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

Did Sherri READ IT?

==============

Apparently not because she didn't know that it was written and she thought the non-fan tweeting was the author of a book he/she was writing!

Sherri got away with threatening to burn the house down and bomb Jon's car, so calling a book lies means nothing to her.

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

Remember when someone thought the one hater was Jon because they used him as his avatar? LOL who was that? Said "don't take out your anger against your ex on me"? LOL

=================

Yes, but I can't remember who that was!

DisgustedwithKate said...

This whole Gosselin saga reminds me of what occurred with Jerry Sandusky. People/fans refused to believe that Sandusky was a child molester because he was considered an upstanding citizen, an American hero football coach. A man who loved children so much, he created a charity to help children. It is the same with Kate's fans. Because Kate is (relatively) young, Caucasian, pretty and somewhat educated they refuse to believe that she could be a child abuser. Even if some of the children were to admit to being abused, I think some of Kate's fans would still side with Kate (Milo, Emily etc ). I do not think Robert's book/possible movie would ever change these diehard fans opinions because for some odd reason they love/worship Kate.

FYI said...

Remember when someone thought the one hater was Jon because they used him as his avatar? LOL who was that? Said "don't take out your anger against your ex on me"? LOL
---------------------------

NoNetz Bathing Suits ‏@NoNetzSuits 5 Sep
@DWTS_Participan Don't take out your anger towards your ex on us. All we did was ask for a review and that's what we got #bitter

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...


This whole Gosselin saga reminds me of what occurred with Jerry Sandusky. People/fans refused to believe that Sandusky was a child molester because he was considered an upstanding citizen, an American hero football coach. A man who loved children so much, he created a charity to help children. It is the same with Kate's fans. Because Kate is (relatively) young, Caucasian, pretty and somewhat educated they refuse to believe that she could be a child abuser. Even if some of the children were to admit to being abused, I think some of Kate's fans would still side with Kate (Milo, Emily etc ). I do not think Robert's book/possible movie would ever change these diehard fans opinions because for some odd reason they love/worship Kate.

&&&

I agree and I have always thought Kate has skated by because she looks the part. She looks like Anytown, USA pretty blond neighbor (in the old days.) Great comparison to Sandusky, whose All-American image was too hard for people to reconcile. It is easier to accuse of child abuse a nasty and ugly person who "fits the part." If Kate and Sandusky looked creepier, it would be a lot easier to accept.

I have felt this way about one of her pretty fans, too. That's not to say she isn't perfectly appropriate with the children (or not, who knows), but I doubt Kate would allow the children to sit in her lap if she didn't look so pretty, sweet and normal. The reality is how you look has no bearing on who you are inside, obviously. There have been study after study about how much easier it is for good looking charismatic people to get their way. It's a factor that cannot be discounted. Add to that she's a woman in some unique circumstances anyone would sympathize with and it was all the harder for the public to come around to who she really is. She is much different looking now, but when this first started I think it's fair to say she was pretty enough.

By the way thanks for chiming in about Million Dollar Babies earlier. I believe it IS on Youtube somewhere. It's worth it to see. The three remaining sisters were in a youtube thing I saw about the making of the movie. They said at first they were reluctant to support the movie. One of them I believe said she had long put that all to rest. But once they saw it they were very pleased with the results and found it so accurate they were disturbed. They are an example of victims who end up quite pleased and moved with a movie, which was going to get made whether they were okay with it or not.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

I think I get the feeling with Sherri she's trying to be sort of a loud mouth, outspoken person like Whoopi. Spouting off about whatever with a vengeance. She is a poor man's Whoopi. What she doesn't understand is that when Whoopi does that she is smart and does her research. She would not say anything controversial about that book unless she had read the entire thing and watched the show and googled around. When she spouts off, she knows what she's talking about, or she'd rather just sit there and steam. Huge difference.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Taking a risk?

I'm not sure the Skyjump would appreciate being called risky. It may be scary and very difficult and I wouldn't want to do it, but I also understand they check and recheck these kinds of things over and over and everyone working there is highly skilled and trained so nothing would ever happen to their clients. I've never heard they ever had an accident. Nothing risky about it. I wouldn't worry one bit about anyone I loved doing it myself, even though I wouldn't do it.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Million dollar Babies is available on Netflix but DVD only not streaming.

njay said...

There is nothing to prevent the children from walking up to a teacher TODAY and reporting any abuse that is occurring. They are not being prevented from doing anything.
----------------
Sorry Anon, YOUR WRONG. Please don't misinterpret my caps. I'm not yelling at you, I'm being passionate about what your comment is saying. Unfortunately people think children who are abuse should not or would not love the parent/parent's who are abusing them. That is so far from what a abused child is feeling. They are confused at why and what have THEY done for mom/dad to hit, yell, swear, leave alone...must I go on with that list? They go out of their way to try to get their parents to be happy.

It is a VERY confusing life for them. During all this they still have the fear that is so paralyzing that many can't even control bodily functions. Do I even need to mention their fear when they know what is going to happen to them for having no control of those functions. Read Robert's new post on his site. Better yet, read the older post of the same comment further down in his site. It explains exactly what they feel.

Now, to get back to going to a teacher themselves. THEY FEAR WHAT THE PARENT WILL DO WHEN THEY FIND OUT YOU TOLD. No one had the power to protect them before, who will do it now. Not only that, they don't want to be taken away from mom nor see mom punished. They just want to be safe and loved. Look what happened because dad knew how mom is. They lost him and his security at their home. They now have to fear what will happen if they show mom they love him. HOW HORRIBLE IS THAT? Sad to say but that is what most children from broken homes have to feel and 100 times worse if they are abused.

Now any comment about "where was Jon". He was under contract and being sued by a powerful media company and married to a woman who would not hesitate and did work right along with them to make his life miserable. Also, what else would she do to the kids when he was work? I think he was afraid for their safety. After all the crew was there. Surely she wouldn't kill/hurt them as bad with them around. What fear for them did he have. The show must go on as they say. Also, it was more likely that he would not get the kids and then who would protect them. At least he was around for part of the day seven days a week and later all day as Kate cruised around with Steve. Poor Jon, yes, poor Jon. I can't imagine his pain in that dilemma. Kate wanted the divorce not Jon. Maybe he was willing to put himself and his own self pain behind for his children. And so many call it selfishness. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." kjv I know that I don't really know his feelings on why he chose what he did but then neither do you. IMO this statement sounds more likely than not, this is what he was trying to accomplish. Wouldn't it be great if we all got it right the first time?

Susan said...

Sherri Shepard taking up for Kate is laughable. She is a man hating dumbass. I was a bit worried that Barbara might give Momzilla a job because she hired Shepard who thinks the world is flat. Shepard replaced Star, Oh Boy........Dumbass to the max.
The world is flat folks.......
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbizzLzcpnM

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

DisgustedwithKate also if you look at child abuse statistics the vast majority of filings are on minorities.

While I do believe socio-economic-culture differences play a huge role, I have a hard time believing such low numbers of white people abuse their kids. That just can't be. The reality is, they often skate by much easier through a system that focuses mostly on minorities and the poor. When white people are filed on, it is often brushed off as "just a family law dispute between ex's," something that should be easily resolved before it ever gets to trial. That is one reason I have completely understood why Kate probably never had to face a judge about her abuse. Look at her circumstances. It doesn't happen, not often anyway.

Fleecing The Sheeple said...

She is a poor man's Whoopi.

==============

lol, admin. Perfect description! A Whoopi Wannabe but a NeverCanBe.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Njay, I agree. The number of child abuse cases reported by teachers is actually shockingly low, which suggests kids aren't telling their teachers.
Only SIXTEEN percent of cases are reported by teachers. SIXTEEN! Even discounting babies who aren't in school yet, that still leaves a huge number of kids who aren't talking to their teachers or being discovered by teachers. It is a logical fallacy to assume that if a kid is being abused he'll just turn to his teacher. Only 16 percent of abused kids ever do that.

These stats come from our own government, the Dept. of Health and Human Services.

http://www.safehorizon.org/index/what-we-do-2/child-abuse--incest-55/child-abuse-statistics--facts-304.html

Susan said...

The picture Robert has up depicting Kate hitting her child. I commented here that Kate was hitting her with a bent hand, bony knuckles, closed fist in order to not cut skin with the manicured weapons, her nails. Take a good look, bare knuckles on your small child. Dress pulled up, can't leave bruises where it shows. Kate knew just how to abuse her children.
I despise her.

Realitytvkids.com ~ Administrator said...

Even just looking at Whoopi's background on Wikipedia vs Sherri it just can't compare. Sherri grew up in Chicago and was a secretary once, then did some stand up. Nothing remarkable about her upbringing. She brings nothing interesting or remarkable from her background to the View table.

Whoopi in contrast has a much broader background and worldview. She was raised by a true single mom, lived in East Germany during the Cold War and smuggled in items to other Americans living there. She created stand up shows, produced successful T.V. show after successful T.V. show, acted in blockbusters and won an Oscars and Emmies, worked with greats like Speilberg and Penny Marshall. She also dealt with her daughter's teen pregnancy and being a grandmother at 34. I mean her background is just so much more lush and interesting. I want to know what she has to say. I couldn't care less what stupid Sherri thinks.

That's not to say you could have a perfectly decent understanding of the issues from a normal uneventful background but I think it's also far easier for Sherri to stick her head in the stand and be unaware of the world. I believe that's exactly what she has done. I don't believe she has a true understanding of most issues.

Susan said...

Realitytvkids.com (Administrator) said... 189
I think I get the feeling with Sherri she's trying to be sort of a loud mouth, outspoken person like Whoopi. Spouting off about whatever with a vengeance. She is a poor man's Whoopi.

Spot on Admin. Sherri and TFW bonded.

Meagler said...

I agree..new post needed. too much scrolling :)

I watched the Alaska Show.. Oh my Localyocal @ 134 The child DOES say " I didnt touch it with my hands", referring to the Moose Burger, and this was BEFORE pizzagate.

TLC showed that clip on pizza gate on purpose. They knew this was a big hissy fit issue for Kate!!!!

I also noted TFW is bemoaning how people would ever want to pretend to be homeless .....

Jees Kate, thought you and your grandparents did a lot of camping, in Canada, when you were young?? Remember the denture story ? So which one is a lie? The denture story, the camping with your grandparents, or your comment to the Palins?

I wonder how many other hints of foreshasdwing did TLC give us in those last episodes?

Anonymous said...

Whoopi's one-woman show, The Spook Show, is absolutely brilliant and probably available online. Her performance as Celie in The Color Purple was deep and unforgettable. She should have won the Oscar but the whole movie and its many nominations were shut out.
She is extremely smart and talented.
FRP

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